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Illegal immigration a disaster for the United States.
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imported_Shivetya
Platinum Member
Immigration only helps the US when the immigrants try to integrate themselves into our society. If they try to stay separate or just come for money and don't make a life here it does not benefit us.
The simple solution is.
1. Set up very stiff penalties for any company or individuals knowningly or carelessly employing or providing services to illegals.
2. Stop ALL Federal aid to any city, county, or state, that does not assist in the removal of illegal immigrants.
3. Deny citizenship to children born here to illegal immigrants.
You make it monetarily painful and the illegals will not have jobs here meaning they will not have reason to come.
Immigrants are good. Let them all come in. I've already explained my position on this topic previously, I'll just say research some academic sources and stop using these selective "facts" you pull out of your asses. You'll realize this issue isn't as scary as it seems and the government might just be on top of it before Bush is out of office (although he is shifting to more of a hard-line stance that I do not agree with).
I've noticed the opposition to immigrants comes from a few camps:
1) Bigots - don't want Spanish-speaking, dark-skinned people to represent any kind of majority anywhere.
2) Isolationists - same kind of folks who want to stop free trade because it 'hurts American workers.'
3) Gullibles - believe every statistic thrown at them when closer inspection shows them to be extremely twisted.
I've noticed the opposition to immigrants comes from a few camps:
1) Bigots - don't want Spanish-speaking, dark-skinned people to represent any kind of majority anywhere.
2) Isolationists - same kind of folks who want to stop free trade because it 'hurts American workers.'
3) Gullibles - believe every statistic thrown at them when closer inspection shows them to be extremely twisted.
Like I said I got into a lengthy debate about this previously just a few weeks back and don't want to go repeating myself. I'm saying the problem with that debate was most people just spewed twisted facts and needed to do some academic research on the subject. If they did they might be surprised at what they found. There was one guy who offered a valid opinion for the other side but most people here just buy into the scare tactics of anti-immigration folks.
brandonbull
Diamond Member
I noticed how you stated Immigrants while others are arguing about.... wait for it.... ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
No one is arguing against LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. I would love to see your arguements for ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.
It appears to me you can only call people names and you are in the wrong debate.
dmcowen674
No Lifer
There are tons of economic arguments for illegal immigration. Why should anyone lead you to the water when it is so obvious you folks all have your minds made up? No matter what someone posted, you would deny it was true and then argue about nothing. There's no point in wasting my time or yours. If Americans think illegal immigration is a problem then they will do something about it. So far they have not.
BoomerD
No Lifer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070501/ap_on_re_us/immigration_protests_19
Protesters press for path to citizenship
"LOS ANGELES - Demonstrators demanding a path to citizenship for an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants rallied around the nation Tuesday, hoping to spur Congress to act before the looming presidential primaries take over the political landscape.
From Phoenix to Detroit, hundreds of people carried American flags in the streets.
Organizers say immigrants feel a sense of urgency to keep immigration reform from getting pushed to the back burner by the 2008 presidential elections.
"If we don't act, then both the Democratic and Republican parties can go back to their comfort zones and do nothing," said Angelica Salas, director of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles. "They won't have the courage to resolve a major situation for millions of people."
Hours before the march was set to begin in Chicago, dozens of demonstrators began arriving carrying American flags, signs and placards, including one that read "We may not have it all together, but together we can have it all."
Melissa Woo, a 22-year-old American citizen who immigrated from South Korea, carried a Korean flag over her shoulder as she criticized politicians for "buckling at the knees."
"Us immigrants aren't pieces of trash, we're human beings," she said. "To be treated as less than human is a travesty."
Thomas Rodriguez, of Aurora, stood in Union Park wearing a shirt that said: "We are hard workers. We're not criminals."
The 38-year-old has had no legal status since he came to the United States from Mexico in 1989 and is an employee at a Japanese restaurant in Chicago.
"Recent raids have worried me," he said. "We worry deportations are leaving too many young people without parents."
In southwest Detroit, hundreds of people wore red and white, and carried American flags to a rally.
"Most of the undocumented people come here as a necessity of survival," said Rosendo Delgado, of Latinos United, one of the groups organizing the march. "For them, it's the only choice."
A mariachi band played in Phoenix as marchers walked from the fairgrounds toward the state Capitol.
"We want just reform," said Mayela Ruiz, another illegal immigrant. "I've been here 15 years. I've worked hard, paid my taxes. I've had no problems with the law and I'm afraid to leave my house. I want a law that would allow me to work and live in freedom but not like a slave."
Democratic Party Chair Howard Dean was scheduled to speak in Miami to a coalition of immigrant groups, while Ricardo Chavez, the brother of famed agricultural labor leader Cesar Chavez, was expected address crowds in Milwaukee.
In Washington, D.C., about 400 members of Asian groups from across the country were set to make a lobbying push with lawmakers.
This year's turnout was expected to be lower than the 1 million people who gathered for last year's May 1 activities.
No rallies were planned in Atlanta, where 50,000 marched last year, because many immigrants were afraid of the raids and of a new state law set to take effect in July. The law requires verification that adults seeking non-emergency state-administered benefits are in the country legally, sanctions employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and requires police to check the immigration status of people they arrest.
"There's a lot of anxiety and fear in the immigrant community," said Jerry Gonzalez of the Georgia Association of Latino Elected Officials.
In New York, groups planned an "American Family Tree" rally, where immigrants would pin paper leaves on a large painting of a tree to symbolize the separation of families because of strict immigration laws.
The event is a response to a White House immigration reform proposal in March, said Chung-Wha Hong, executive director of the New York Immigration Coalition.
That plan would grant illegal immigrants three-year work visas for $3,500 but also require them to return home to apply for U.S. residency and pay a $10,000 fine. It has been roundly criticized by immigrant groups.
Two large demonstrations were planned in Los Angeles County ? home to an estimated 1 million illegal immigrants. Some groups in the area have called for an economic boycott and hoped for a repeat of last year, when thousands of immigrants and students stayed away from work and school in a sign of solidarity.
Other groups have rejected the boycott, arguing it puts immigrants' livelihoods at risk and deprives children of valuable classroom time.
Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and Cardinal Roger Mahony, head of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, both strong immigrant supporters, urged students to stay in school.
Despite divisions over tactics and other issues, immigration groups and supporters said the diverse events will show the movement is stronger than ever.
"Just because the 12 million people who don't have legal residency don't attend a march doesn't mean they don't want it," said Eduardo "Piolin" Sotelo, a popular Spanish-language disc jockey. "I tell my listeners that no matter what they do, just don't stop doing something."
After last year's protests, reform legislation stalled in Congress and bipartisan proposals for illegal immigrants to gain citizenship have gotten more conservative.
Organizers said Tuesday's turnout will be lower because stepped-up raids in recent months have left many immigrants afraid to speak out in public ? a major change over rallies in 2006 when some illegal immigrants wore T-shirts saying "I'm illegal. So what?"
"These raids have torn apart families," said John Crockford, a member of the Central California Coalition for Immigrant Rights.
In Fresno, organizers planned a rally focusing on children whose parents had been deported. The San Joaquin Valley is home to thousands of seasonal workers who work illegally each year in the fields and construction industry.
In Los Angeles, marches were set to include demands for a legalization program, a stop to the raids and an anti-Iraq war message. City and transportation officials were planning for as many as 500,000 people in downtown, believing it could be the largest in the city so far this year. "
What the fvck gives the illegals the right to DEMAND anything?
There is already a path to citizenship;
Enter the country legally.
Live/work under a "green card" for 5 years.
Apply for citizenship.
ANY path to citizenship should include them returning to their native country and APPLYING for legal entry.
IMO, the ILLEGALS should be rounded up and sent back to whatever their country of origin is, be it Mexico, Guatemala, Ireland, Canada, China, or wherever...
WILL IT HAPPEN? Not a chance.
The Repigs want to keep their business owner supporters happy with cheap labor.
The Dems are being controlled by the ultra-liberal pansies who think that allowing these people to stay is a good thing.
Protesters press for path to citizenship
"LOS ANGELES - Demonstrators demanding a path to citizenship for an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants rallied around the nation Tuesday, hoping to spur Congress to act before the looming presidential primaries take over the political landscape.
From Phoenix to Detroit, hundreds of people carried American flags in the streets.
Organizers say immigrants feel a sense of urgency to keep immigration reform from getting pushed to the back burner by the 2008 presidential elections.
"If we don't act, then both the Democratic and Republican parties can go back to their comfort zones and do nothing," said Angelica Salas, director of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles. "They won't have the courage to resolve a major situation for millions of people."
Hours before the march was set to begin in Chicago, dozens of demonstrators began arriving carrying American flags, signs and placards, including one that read "We may not have it all together, but together we can have it all."
Melissa Woo, a 22-year-old American citizen who immigrated from South Korea, carried a Korean flag over her shoulder as she criticized politicians for "buckling at the knees."
"Us immigrants aren't pieces of trash, we're human beings," she said. "To be treated as less than human is a travesty."
Thomas Rodriguez, of Aurora, stood in Union Park wearing a shirt that said: "We are hard workers. We're not criminals."
The 38-year-old has had no legal status since he came to the United States from Mexico in 1989 and is an employee at a Japanese restaurant in Chicago.
"Recent raids have worried me," he said. "We worry deportations are leaving too many young people without parents."
In southwest Detroit, hundreds of people wore red and white, and carried American flags to a rally.
"Most of the undocumented people come here as a necessity of survival," said Rosendo Delgado, of Latinos United, one of the groups organizing the march. "For them, it's the only choice."
A mariachi band played in Phoenix as marchers walked from the fairgrounds toward the state Capitol.
"We want just reform," said Mayela Ruiz, another illegal immigrant. "I've been here 15 years. I've worked hard, paid my taxes. I've had no problems with the law and I'm afraid to leave my house. I want a law that would allow me to work and live in freedom but not like a slave."
Democratic Party Chair Howard Dean was scheduled to speak in Miami to a coalition of immigrant groups, while Ricardo Chavez, the brother of famed agricultural labor leader Cesar Chavez, was expected address crowds in Milwaukee.
In Washington, D.C., about 400 members of Asian groups from across the country were set to make a lobbying push with lawmakers.
This year's turnout was expected to be lower than the 1 million people who gathered for last year's May 1 activities.
No rallies were planned in Atlanta, where 50,000 marched last year, because many immigrants were afraid of the raids and of a new state law set to take effect in July. The law requires verification that adults seeking non-emergency state-administered benefits are in the country legally, sanctions employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and requires police to check the immigration status of people they arrest.
"There's a lot of anxiety and fear in the immigrant community," said Jerry Gonzalez of the Georgia Association of Latino Elected Officials.
In New York, groups planned an "American Family Tree" rally, where immigrants would pin paper leaves on a large painting of a tree to symbolize the separation of families because of strict immigration laws.
The event is a response to a White House immigration reform proposal in March, said Chung-Wha Hong, executive director of the New York Immigration Coalition.
That plan would grant illegal immigrants three-year work visas for $3,500 but also require them to return home to apply for U.S. residency and pay a $10,000 fine. It has been roundly criticized by immigrant groups.
Two large demonstrations were planned in Los Angeles County ? home to an estimated 1 million illegal immigrants. Some groups in the area have called for an economic boycott and hoped for a repeat of last year, when thousands of immigrants and students stayed away from work and school in a sign of solidarity.
Other groups have rejected the boycott, arguing it puts immigrants' livelihoods at risk and deprives children of valuable classroom time.
Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa and Cardinal Roger Mahony, head of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, both strong immigrant supporters, urged students to stay in school.
Despite divisions over tactics and other issues, immigration groups and supporters said the diverse events will show the movement is stronger than ever.
"Just because the 12 million people who don't have legal residency don't attend a march doesn't mean they don't want it," said Eduardo "Piolin" Sotelo, a popular Spanish-language disc jockey. "I tell my listeners that no matter what they do, just don't stop doing something."
After last year's protests, reform legislation stalled in Congress and bipartisan proposals for illegal immigrants to gain citizenship have gotten more conservative.
Organizers said Tuesday's turnout will be lower because stepped-up raids in recent months have left many immigrants afraid to speak out in public ? a major change over rallies in 2006 when some illegal immigrants wore T-shirts saying "I'm illegal. So what?"
"These raids have torn apart families," said John Crockford, a member of the Central California Coalition for Immigrant Rights.
In Fresno, organizers planned a rally focusing on children whose parents had been deported. The San Joaquin Valley is home to thousands of seasonal workers who work illegally each year in the fields and construction industry.
In Los Angeles, marches were set to include demands for a legalization program, a stop to the raids and an anti-Iraq war message. City and transportation officials were planning for as many as 500,000 people in downtown, believing it could be the largest in the city so far this year. "
What the fvck gives the illegals the right to DEMAND anything?
There is already a path to citizenship;
Enter the country legally.
Live/work under a "green card" for 5 years.
Apply for citizenship.
ANY path to citizenship should include them returning to their native country and APPLYING for legal entry.
IMO, the ILLEGALS should be rounded up and sent back to whatever their country of origin is, be it Mexico, Guatemala, Ireland, Canada, China, or wherever...
WILL IT HAPPEN? Not a chance.
The Repigs want to keep their business owner supporters happy with cheap labor.
The Dems are being controlled by the ultra-liberal pansies who think that allowing these people to stay is a good thing.
tomywishbone
Golden Member
😀
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I immigrated here (legally of course), and now am a naturalized U.S. citizen. My family had to apply and go through the process; we waited about 5-6 years.
These bastards don't deserve $hit. Demand my ass, go through the proper procedures or STFU and live in silence at least.
MagicConch
Golden Member
These guys earn so little in Mexico it's amazing, I heard a huge percentage of the population of them get $2/day max. ? Any normal person in such a country is going to seek the maximum wealth they can. That is pure capitalism at work, which always overwhelm any type of immigration law. If someone cannot successfully compete and loses fiscal opportunities, the money goes to people who can. This is definitely the wrong country for those who can't handle competition, whether it be net skills or base required income.
BoomerD
No Lifer
I have several neighbors in similar situations to your Dacalo...all LEGALLY immigrated and naturalized citizens. NEARLY EVERY SINGLE ONE of them believes that the illegals are wrong, and should be required to enter the country LEGALLY. The exceptions to that (I DID say NEARLY) are all Mexican immigrants who seem to have no problem with the illegals being here.
LOL. What cold hard facts? You folks don't like Mexicans. What other facts are there?
The fact that illegal immigrants are here because there is a demand for them? Every home that is built, turnip picked/washed, or strawberry eaten likely had work done by an illegal. Companies demand them. Americans simply do NOT care enough to force a change. The employers are telling Congress what to do and they are listening.
You folks think I'm for illegal immigration. I'm not. However, I'm not anti-immigrant, and I do realize WHY there is illegal immigration. It isn't because of the immigrants. It is because of piss-poor immigration laws and the fact that employers want to hire immigrants on the cheap. Until that changes, you all can go on your little xenophobic anti-Mexican rant, but it won't do much good.
When they are just now processing visas from 1989 for skilled workers from Mexico, do you really expect for people to wait? Why in God's name would they? Who would wait damn near 20 years when they can walk across the border in a day? Our immigration laws are notoriously complex, slow, inaccurate, archaic, and unable to react to our modern day situation.
All you fools can bitch about building a border fence or deporting all the "illegals," but in reality you are just furthering a handful pipedreams that seem to have gained a foothold among the loony anti-immigrant camps. A fence *might* get built, but you are huffing spraypaint like a champ if you think it will stem the tide. Furthermore, you are well into your third crack rock of the afternoon if you think we could deport even just 10% of all illegals. It wouldn't matter if we added 20,000 people to INS -- it would never ever be possible. Neither physically, nor politically or socially.
Also, you folks aren't out pushing for heavy fines for businesses, nor are you pushing for free trade to keep those businesses booming. You all want to stop immigration and engage in protectionist polices. An absolute disaster. If illegals want to come here and work for minimum wage (I am against substandard wages) and ramp our factories up to compete with their brethren in Mexico or their rivals in China then I'm all for it. If they want to keep agricultural costs low so that Americans can enjoy a high standard of living then I'm all for it. If they want to WORK and not demand the world like lazy-ass Union workers then I'm all for it. I sure as hell don't see GM hiring any illegals for 80k to cut the grass, but they do it for lazy-ass Union workers.
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