If you love Jesus post inside, if you don't, don't post inside.

[NikolaeVarius]

I just don't get specific religions. If you want to believe in some higher power that created the Universe, fine, I can see where you are coming from. The Universe IS a big and mysterious place and maybe some higher power did it etc etc. And its not like you're subscribing to a ideology or anything. Its a belief in the beginning of the Universe that no one has any evidence for and there is nothing about it that can cause people to act irrationally.

But why do people believe in specific Gods/Religions. Why Yaweh, Allah, Zeus, Horus, or anything. It just seems intellectually completely absurd. There is no evidence of one religion over another. Every single religion had their own holy texts, prophecies that were confirmed, or evidence of existance. I mean, George Carlin had it right, Sun worship probably makes the most sense. It gives light, warmth, and light to the world. And there is evidence for it. In the sky, giving you everything you need to live, No wonder older civilizations had Sun Gods.

The entire faith before evidence seems dumb. Its exactly the argument that makes people see things that isn't there. You Feel the presence of God. Well that Ghosthunter also feels the presence of a ghost RIGHT THERE next to the drafty window, the conspiracy theories sees proof of hidden explosives RIGHT THERE in the smoke of a collapsing building. Why do people convert to specific religions? Is it just because they were exposed to it? People say they turn to Christ after being saved from a accident or something. Wouldn't that person turn to Allah if they were in a muslim area, or Krishna if in an Indian area? I mean, do people really think through their choices in religions? Do people ever sit there and think about their belief systems?

I swear, no one has been able to answer this question to me in any way that made sense.

So, seriously, can anyone answer my question. I'm truthfully incredibly curious about this issue.

 

[alien42]

if jesus is your copilot, scoot over and let him drive

 

[TheVrolok]

It was most definently related to what you said, in a way a contradiction of your statement as quoted and replied to. I'm sure if you think about it you'll understand that too. It was definently not a misrepresentation of your general statement though, how it could be seen as such i still don't get.

There was no insinuation either, i never mentioned your take on faith (regarding general faith in a god/s), stop using words like "strawman", "unrelated" and "insinuation" because you clearly don't understand the meaning of them.

I simply said that atheists flame quickly and heavily on theists on this board. Then you replied with a discussion of atheists being more intelligent and theists being simply indoctrinated. What does that have to do with the fact that theists get flamed? Absolutely nothing. Unless you're trying to argue that they get flamed with frequency/force because they are simply less intelligent and atheists attack because they're simply more intelligent .. in which case, yikes.

I'm sure you have "faith" that you know what it means, but you clearly don't.

Are you really going to sit there and pretend you didn't insinuate that I was a man of faith there? Really? You cannot possible be that obtuse. I know you're trying your best to sound intelligent/win your arguments by using massive amounts of condescension, but it's really just coming off as absurdity.

 

[TheVrolok]

So, seriously, can anyone answer my question. I'm truthfully incredibly curious about this issue.

I don't know what you want as an answer, I'm fairly certain you already have it. Do people turn to whatever religion dominates their region/ethnicity/culture? Most of the time, of course. It's called faith for a reason, some people just find comfort in it.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I don't know what you want as an answer, I'm fairly certain you already have it. Do people turn to whatever religion dominates their region/ethnicity/culture? Most of the time, of course. It's called faith for a reason, some people just find comfort in it.

That leaves a pretty gaping hole in the validity (or truthiness) of religions. He's looking for an answer that doesn't leave such a hole.

 

[TheVrolok]

That leaves a pretty gaping hole in the validity (or truthiness) of religions. He's looking for an answer that doesn't leave such a hole.

So he's honestly asking for someone to PROVE religion for him, and curious as to why no one has? Might as well just start banging his head against the wall now. If there wasn't a gaping hole in religion, it wouldn't need to be called faith.

 

[Kelemvor]

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

So he's honestly asking for someone to PROVE religion for him, and curious as to why no one has? Might as well just start banging his head against the wall now. If there wasn't a gaping hole in religion, it wouldn't need to be called faith.

Banging heads against the proverbial wall has been the pastime of intellectuals throughout the ages : p

 

[NikolaeVarius]

So he's honestly asking for someone to PROVE religion for him, and curious as to why no one has? Might as well just start banging his head against the wall now. If there wasn't a gaping hole in religion, it wouldn't need to be called faith.

Not necessarily prove, but just at least explain the thought process. I don't get how a person gets to "joining" a religion or at least how staying in a religion holds up to a thought process of, does this make sense? Is there a specific reason I believe in this religion over the other infinite belief systems there are. If not, why do I have "faith" in this belief. Where did this "faith" come from?

Where does faith come from? I know faith is believing in something without evidence, but why do one have faith in one God over another? Doesn't there have to be SOME iota of evidence or anything for one to have faith. The phrase " I have faith there is a magical invisible Unicorn standing next to me, you can't see it, or smell it, or interact with it in any meaningful way, but its there cause I know it is" I mean, what is stopping one from believing in this sentence? Do religious people not give this some serious thought and come up with a logical loophole?

To sum it up I suppose, why do people have faith in one religion over another. Believing in a generic higher being I can live with. Believing in "God", Allah, Krishna etc etc, I just can't wrap my head around the thought process required to get to the point where you subscribe to such a specific ideology.

 

[TheVrolok]

To sum it up I suppose, why do people have faith in one religion over another. Believing in a generic higher being I can live with. Believing in "God", Allah, Krishna etc etc, I just can't wrap my head around the thought process required to get to the point where you subscribe to such a specific ideology.

Conformity. Some people are simply more comfortable in the company of others. It strengthens the faith of some to have it shared by others. Some people thoroughly enjoy organized religion. Their answer to "why my God and not another's" is simply, "That's what I was taught from day 1." They know (often) that there is a logical problem with that, but they overcome it with faith. It's just the way it works.

 

[sandorski]

Not necessarily prove, but just at least explain the thought process. I don't get how a person gets to "joining" a religion or at least how staying in a religion holds up to a thought process of, does this make sense? Is there a specific reason I believe in this religion over the other infinite belief systems there are. If not, why do I have "faith" in this belief. Where did this "faith" come from?

Where does faith come from? I know faith is believing in something without evidence, but why do one have faith in one God over another? Doesn't there have to be SOME iota of evidence or anything for one to have faith. The phrase " I have faith there is a magical invisible Unicorn standing next to me, you can't see it, or smell it, or interact with it in any meaningful way, but its there cause I know it is" I mean, what is stopping one from believing in this sentence? Do religious people not give this some serious thought and come up with a logical loophole?

To sum it up I suppose, why do people have faith in one religion over another. Believing in a generic higher being I can live with. Believing in "God", Allah, Krishna etc etc, I just can't wrap my head around the thought process required to get to the point where you subscribe to such a specific ideology.

1 Person having an Imaginary Friend is Delusional. Many People sharing the same Imaginary Friend is a Religion.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I have nothing against any god or gods, per se. I do not reject any god or gods.

What I reject are the ridiculous reasons people offer for believing in a god's existence.

 

[Terabyte]

Prove to me God exists!

/popcorn

 

[zinfamous]

When my fourth grade Nun in Catholic school went out of her way to use this exact scenario -- a guy who as pure and good as could be but who lived in a place where he never even heard of Catholicism and so never even had the chance to be baptized would NOT go to heaven -- it was the beginning of the end for Catholicism and me.

By sixth grade, I was in public school and refused to go to church again.

Half way through my first year there, the Principal paid my Mom a visit at home during school hours, pretty unusual as they would normally invite a parent to their office, no?

She then told my Mom that before I had started there, the Mother Superior had called her to warn her that I was a trouble maker. The Principal then told my Mom that I was really an exceptionally good kid.

My Mom didn't tell me this until I was in my 30's!

Anyway, to be fair to the Catholic Church, that may no longer be it's official position. Hell, it may never have been.

How to deal with the godless heathen:

Jesus, or Smallpox.

Hey, sounds like a logical, fair choice to me. :\

 

[zinfamous]

I just don't get specific religions. If you want to believe in some higher power that created the Universe, fine, I can see where you are coming from. The Universe IS a big and mysterious place and maybe some higher power did it etc etc. And its not like you're subscribing to a ideology or anything. Its a belief in the beginning of the Universe that no one has any evidence for and there is nothing about it that can cause people to act irrationally.

But why do people believe in specific Gods/Religions. Why Yaweh, Allah, Zeus, Horus, or anything. It just seems intellectually completely absurd. There is no evidence of one religion over another. Every single religion had their own holy texts, prophecies that were confirmed, or evidence of existance. I mean, George Carlin had it right, Sun worship probably makes the most sense. It gives light, warmth, and light to the world. And there is evidence for it. In the sky, giving you everything you need to live, No wonder older civilizations had Sun Gods.

The entire faith before evidence seems dumb. Its exactly the argument that makes people see things that isn't there. You Feel the presence of God. Well that Ghosthunter also feels the presence of a ghost RIGHT THERE next to the drafty window, the conspiracy theories sees proof of hidden explosives RIGHT THERE in the smoke of a collapsing building. Why do people convert to specific religions? Is it just because they were exposed to it? People say they turn to Christ after being saved from a accident or something. Wouldn't that person turn to Allah if they were in a muslim area, or Krishna if in an Indian area? I mean, do people really think through their choices in religions? Do people ever sit there and think about their belief systems?

I swear, no one has been able to answer this question to me in any way that made sense.

I think the Brahamin have had it figured out for centuries, and still have the most rational, logical approach to the understanding of God:

the minute you start to talk about god, the minute you try to describe god (understanding god with a mortal, non-infinite mind), is the minute you fail to understand ..."It."

There is no single identifiable description or philosophy that can ever properly capture the essence of such a universal creator, and there sure as shit can't be a fleshy representation of such. The idea is patently ludicrous. I'm not sure about prophets though...maybe that concept remains somewhat kosher.

Silence and contemplation--meditation--is the only true means by which "a god" can be approached.

 

[TheVrolok]

I think the Brahamin have had it figured out for centuries, and still have the most rational, logical approach to the understanding of God:

the minute you start to talk about god, the minute you try to describe god (understanding god with a mortal, non-infinite mind), is the minute you fail to understand ..."It."

There is no single identifiable description or philosophy that can ever properly capture the essence of such a universal creator, and there sure as shit can't be a fleshy representation of such. The idea is patently ludicrous. I'm not sure about prophets though...maybe that concept remains somewhat kosher.

Silence and contemplation--meditation--is the only true means by which "a god" can be approached.

My general thoughts as well. Well written. Kinda wanna go reread Siddhartha now.

 

[MAKENITO]

+1

Awww OP, I dont think this thread was a very good idea..

 

[mrjminer]

+1

Awww OP, I dont think this thread was a very good idea..

FALSE

It's always a good idea to bait the religious and non-religious folk for the amusement of watching religious folks attempt to defend their fictitious system of beliefs against clever, logical arguments.

 

[zinfamous]

Lol, not correct. I can tell YOU were never Catholic.

Purgatory was and is a later RCC parking lot for those who have been baptized (are in a state of God's grace), but have died with unconfessed, and therefore unexpiated, Venial (lesser) sins. That's why the Last Rites are administered by a Priest to the dying, to clean the slate of your heretofore unconfessed sins.

IF you die with unconfessed Mortal (major) sins, you are shit out of luck, you go to Hell.

What you think is Purgatory was what they used to call Limbo. I hear they tore it down and paved it over, though, and have some different policy these days.

Ah, yes:

Definition of venial sins:

Well, us protestants have always used Limbo/Purgatory interchangeably b/c well...the concept is so bureaucratically obtuse and non-spiritual (hell, the threat of Purgatory/Limbo, which partly lead to one of the more notorious applications of indulgences and thus the Reformation) that such distinctions are considered completely useless when it comes to our concept of theology.

I would apologize for confusing the two, but you've already admitted your lack of caring for such theological prancing.

Honestly, I follow Catholicism and theology only as it is necessary to really understand the great literature, and of course art, of many centuries.

One who is without at least the basest understanding of theology and church politics can never begin to appreciate the truly lecherous, yet spiritual poetry of a fella like John Donne, for example.

 

[MAKENITO]

FALSE

It's always a good idea to bait the religious and non-religious folk for the amusement of watching religious folks attempt to defend their fictitious system of beliefs against clever, logical arguments.

Different strokes for different folks..

 

[TheVrolok]

One who is without at least the basest understanding of theology and church politics can never begin to appreciate the truly lecherous, yet spiritual poetry of a fella like John Donne, for example.

Who doesn't love a good Holy Sonnet?

 

[RSaylors]

The entire faith before evidence seems dumb.

The evidence for the individual is in the power in that person's life. I came from a severely disadvantaged background and because of faith in Christ I have been allowed to overcome those circumstances. I know some former crack-addicts for whom Jesus is not a theory, but an every-day, keeping them sober, reality.

The idea of an all powerful God making himself into a mortal man is a contradiction. The idea of an eternal God dieing is a contradiction. The idea of a God that demands sacrifice sacrificing himself is a contradiction. It is foolishness to the trained scientific mind.

This doesn't make the impact that Jesus can have on the life of someone that is suffering any less real. God as Jesus is something we take on faith, because of what we know of the life and teachings of Jesus and because of the reality of Christ in our lives.

Do people ever sit there and think about their belief systems?

Often, from a logical, reasonable point of view and conclude that illogical faith serves a much greater purpose than logical weak agnosticism. My life and the lives of many around me are better because of faith in Christ.

I can't speak to other religions, faiths, precepts or exploiters of faith: but in my own experience I know that Christ is real and powerful influence for the betterment of many human's lives.


To the Christians in this thread:
1 Peter 3:15
"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"

 

[BAMAVOO]

If you leave, go play some L4D2 with me

Come on and play fo sho.

 

[BAMAVOO]

The evidence for the individual is in the power in that person's life. I came from a severely disadvantaged background and because of faith in Christ I have been allowed to overcome those circumstances. I know some former crack-addicts for whom Jesus is not a theory, but an every-day, keeping them sober, reality.

The idea of an all powerful God making himself into a mortal man is a contradiction. The idea of an eternal God dieing is a contradiction. The idea of a God that demands sacrifice sacrificing himself is a contradiction. It is foolishness to the trained scientific mind.

This doesn't make the impact that Jesus can have on the life of someone that is suffering any less real. God as Jesus is something we take on faith, because of what we know of the life and teachings of Jesus and because of the reality of Christ in our lives.

Often, from a logical, reasonable point of view and conclude that illogical faith serves a much greater purpose than logical weak agnosticism. My life and the lives of many around me are better because of faith in Christ.

I can't speak to other religions, faiths, precepts or exploiters of faith: but in my own experience I know that Christ is real and powerful influence for the betterment of many human's lives.

The trials I have suffered the last 2 years have only brought my faith into a stronger light. I had staph and strep infection last year that could have easily taken my life. This year I had opoen heart surgery (quintuple bypass) and was within inches of my life. I know the power of prayer brought me through both of these events. I would hope and pray that each and every person can find Jesus and know his power.

 

[sandorski]

The trials I have suffered the last 2 years have only brought my faith into a stronger light. I had staph and strep infection last year that could have easily taken my life. This year I had opoen heart surgery (quintuple bypass) and was within inches of my life. I know the power of prayer brought me through both of these events. I would hope and pray that each and every person can find Jesus and know his power.

Jesus is your Doctor? :\