If you are applying for a job DON'T do this...

[Saga]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

As I already said Fax leaves a trail e-mail does not. If your fax machines gets my pages it sends a signal back saying it recieved them. This handshake is what we look for as proof that you sent in your stuff. With e-mail just because you click the send button does not mean I got anything.

While I don't have a whole lot to back this up, it just seems to me that it would be the other way around - the odds of losing a fax seem significantly higher than the ease of an easily archived (knowing the government, anyway) timestamped e-mail with attachment..

I guess to me using a fax is pretty much like asking me to use a typewriter instead of my laptop.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: darkxshade
To be honest... who still faxes or has one for that matter these days, especially individuals looking for work? Asking to email does not sound unreasonable.

are you fucking stupid? fax machines are still a important business tool and will be for many years.

Just because it's true, doesn't mean it should be. It's a (small) step above snail mail.

As I already said Fax leaves a trail e-mail does not. If your fax machines gets my pages it sends a signal back saying it recieved them. This handshake is what we look for as proof that you sent in your stuff. With e-mail just because you click the send button does not mean I got anything.

Use return receipts. If it becomes a legal matter, check the mail server logs.

It would not get that far. That and why make it harder when a simple fax machine handshake will cover all that and NOT involve someone acting like a child. That is why we let a outside company gets the documents and only by fax, because of idiots acting like little children.

 

[Kalmah]

Fax: It sits on the printer for 3 hours. Somebody walks by which makes it fall to the floor. Later the janitor sweeps it up.

Email: Can me organized, is timestamped, has a return address, can be forwarded to others easily. And I do believe you can use some type of return-recipt system..

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Saga

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

As I already said Fax leaves a trail e-mail does not. If your fax machines gets my pages it sends a signal back saying it recieved them. This handshake is what we look for as proof that you sent in your stuff. With e-mail just because you click the send button does not mean I got anything.

While I don't have a whole lot to back this up, it just seems to me that it would be the other way around - the odds of losing a fax seem significantly higher than the ease of an easily archived (knowing the government, anyway) timestamped e-mail with attachment..

I guess to me using a fax is pretty much like asking me to use a typewriter instead of my laptop.

Just because you have a e-mail with a time stamp doe snot mean you sent it. Way to easy to fake let alone what if your sever said it went out but it did not. Already had someone "fake" the fax documents. So e-mail would be even worse.

A simple fax handshake is just that, simple and it works. Also the faxs are scanned in, they don't come in and get touched by human hands. That is why the cover sheet has a barcode on it.

 

[NoCreativity]

Originally posted by: Tiamat

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Tiamat

Originally posted by: edro
Fax? WTF is that?

LMFAO!

Generally, i've gotten away with Scanning and emailing to the HR rep. I called them ahead and asked if it was ok. As long as the files are less than 10MB, the HR rep. typically agrees if you are nice.

Not with State.

The fax is because when you fax it they, monster, scans them into the system. There is a trail with fax, not so with e-mail. Then the whole virus thing.
When the job closes I log in and see all the documents and they are all attached to each persons application.

Oh state sucks, I just apply for federal positions.

I did have to fax my acceptance letter. Luckily I am still close to campus, I just used the department's fax machine. I dunno what happens to people who do not have any access to fax.
Marlin - Email can use receipts. Also, I ask the HR to reply back to my email notifying they received the documents. I've had terrible luck with fax machines were the documents just get thrown away/physically lost on the other side.

Can't they just go to Kinkos?

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Joy of employers having f*cking stupid requirements and acting like it is the 14th century.

Bingo... who uses a fax machine anymore? What is this, 1990?

Am I a bad person if I use the fax machine at work to send personal stuff like resumes/transcripts out...

Do copy shops really offer this service? I've used them once or twice in my life.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: joesmoke
thats what the process is for. one less tard to interview.

Well no if you miss even 1 required document we cut you off without looking at any of your application. My job is to verify that people meet the min. qualifications. If they do I rank them and put them on the CERT (That?s the final sheet I send to the hiring official).

Wait a minute. You're bitching about having to reject people who don't meet the minimum requirements, and it's your job to.... make sure people meet the minimum requirements?

 

[Babbles]

Regarding using a FAX, please keep in mind that a FAX is considering legally binding like an original copy, e.g. a FAXed signature is just as legally binding as an original. That does not hold true for other forms of transmission, i.e. email. Furthermore a FAX is for all intents and purposes a direct connection from the sender to receiver - in no way is that the case for general email (secured email accounts withstanding). The integrity of a facsimile has been proven; not so with email.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: joesmoke
thats what the process is for. one less tard to interview.

Well no if you miss even 1 required document we cut you off without looking at any of your application. My job is to verify that people meet the min. qualifications. If they do I rank them and put them on the CERT (That?s the final sheet I send to the hiring official).

Wait a minute. You're bitching about having to reject people who don't meet the minimum requirements, and it's your job to.... make sure people meet the minimum requirements?

People are not allowed to bitch about their jobs?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: joesmoke
thats what the process is for. one less tard to interview.

Well no if you miss even 1 required document we cut you off without looking at any of your application. My job is to verify that people meet the min. qualifications. If they do I rank them and put them on the CERT (That?s the final sheet I send to the hiring official).

Wait a minute. You're bitching about having to reject people who don't meet the minimum requirements, and it's your job to.... make sure people meet the minimum requirements?

No, read again. I hate people that keep bugging me asking dumb questions and being rude.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Babbles
Regarding using a FAX, please keep in mind that a FAX is considering legally binding like an original copy, e.g. a FAXed signature is just as legally binding as an original. That does not hold true for other forms of transmission, i.e. email. Furthermore a FAX is for all intents and purposes a direct connection from the sender to receiver - in no way is that the case for general email (secured email accounts withstanding). The integrity of a facsimile has been proven; not so with email.

:thumbsup:


The Fed Gov has been taken to court about EVERYTHING. On certain words,way people can apply, how we select, who we select, etc...

Fax seems to hold up in ease and protecting ourself.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Saga

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

As I already said Fax leaves a trail e-mail does not. If your fax machines gets my pages it sends a signal back saying it recieved them. This handshake is what we look for as proof that you sent in your stuff. With e-mail just because you click the send button does not mean I got anything.

While I don't have a whole lot to back this up, it just seems to me that it would be the other way around - the odds of losing a fax seem significantly higher than the ease of an easily archived (knowing the government, anyway) timestamped e-mail with attachment..

I guess to me using a fax is pretty much like asking me to use a typewriter instead of my laptop.

Just because you have a e-mail with a time stamp doe snot mean you sent it. Way to easy to fake let alone what if your sever said it went out but it did not. Already had someone "fake" the fax documents. So e-mail would be even worse.

A simple fax handshake is just that, simple and it works. Also the faxs are scanned in, they don't come in and get touched by human hands. That is why the cover sheet has a barcode on it.

I send all my applications by carrier pigeon. It's simple and it works. You strap it to the bird's leg and it flies away. Who needs those new-fangled "fax machines" with their incomprehensible screeches and beeping? If I don't understand how something works then I don't trust it.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Babbles
People are not allowed to bitch about their jobs?

No! :|

 

[dbk]

I had to fax in my transcript at kinkos. It took a while but I didn't mind. It's just the process. If you can't accept that or even comply to it why bother applying?

 

[sdifox]

Why are people bitching about application process? Don't like it? Don't apply!

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: dbk
I had to fax in my transcript at kinkos. It took a while but I didn't mind. It's just the process. If you can't accept that or even comply to it why bother applying?

Ha.. don?t even get me started on the people that want to negotiate their salary.

Me: Hi you are being offered a GS5 at 30k a year, do you accept?
Them: yes, but can i get 35k a year.
Me: No, its a GS5 that pays 30k.
Them: OK how about 33k?
Me:... :| do you want the job or not?

99.9% of the time that is not even possible. And when it is it takes a lot of people to approve it and only for a very small group of jobs and people.

Or another one is someone turns the job down and a month later comes back and says I am ready to start.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: darkxshade
To be honest... who still faxes or has one for that matter these days, especially individuals looking for work? Asking to email does not sound unreasonable.

Its a Fed requirement and done through monster.com not us. We, HR, do not get ANY documents. They fax in as there is a trail from there machine to monsters. With e-mail there are too many hands on it and too many ways for it to get "lost" and/or make up a reason it got lost instead of admitting being lazy and trying to get in after the job closes.

What if someone doesn't have a fax machine? Not that unreasonable these days for people not to have a landline and fax machine.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: darkxshade
To be honest... who still faxes or has one for that matter these days, especially individuals looking for work? Asking to email does not sound unreasonable.

Its a Fed requirement and done through monster.com not us. We, HR, do not get ANY documents. They fax in as there is a trail from there machine to monsters. With e-mail there are too many hands on it and too many ways for it to get "lost" and/or make up a reason it got lost instead of admitting being lazy and trying to get in after the job closes.

What if someone doesn't have a fax machine? Not that unreasonable these days for people not to have a landline and fax machine.

As already stated go to kinkos, staples, etc... or just about any other place like that.

Let alone you can use online fax as well.

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: Babbles
Regarding using a FAX, please keep in mind that a FAX is considering legally binding like an original copy, e.g. a FAXed signature is just as legally binding as an original. That does not hold true for other forms of transmission, i.e. email. Furthermore a FAX is for all intents and purposes a direct connection from the sender to receiver - in no way is that the case for general email (secured email accounts withstanding). The integrity of a facsimile has been proven; not so with email.

False, I'm not arguing which one is better. But an e-mail holds up in court as well as a legally binding document/contract.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: dbk
I had to fax in my transcript at kinkos. It took a while but I didn't mind. It's just the process. If you can't accept that or even comply to it why bother applying?

Ha.. don?t even get me started on the people that want to negotiate their salary.

Me: Hi you are being offered a GS5 at 30k a year, do you accept?
Them: yes, but can i get 35k a year.
Me: No, its a GS5 that pays 30k.
Them: OK how about 33k?
Me:... :| do you want the job or not?

99.9% of the time that is not even possible. And when it is it takes a lot of people to approve it and only for a very small group of jobs and people.

Or another one is someone turns the job down and a month later comes back and says I am ready to start.

To be fair, lots of applicants from the private sector don't understand how government pay is calculated. I think that applicants should do some research before applying, but you can't hold it against people for doing something that is commonplace in the private world.

As for the rest of your post, yes people are idiots.

 

[looker001]

I recently graduated from university, do i really need to submit a transcript for federal job?

 

[Saga]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Just because you have a e-mail with a time stamp doe snot mean you sent it. Way to easy to fake let alone what if your sever said it went out but it did not. Already had someone "fake" the fax documents. So e-mail would be even worse.

A simple fax handshake is just that, simple and it works. Also the faxs are scanned in, they don't come in and get touched by human hands. That is why the cover sheet has a barcode on it.

I really disagree with you here. A fax is equally, if not easier, to spoof or forge.

Just because you got a fax does not mean you sent it, either. If anything, e-mail with IP tracking and a timestamp holds FAR more legitimate weight than a faxed document.

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: dbk
I had to fax in my transcript at kinkos. It took a while but I didn't mind. It's just the process. If you can't accept that or even comply to it why bother applying?

Ha.. don?t even get me started on the people that want to negotiate their salary.

Me: Hi you are being offered a GS5 at 30k a year, do you accept?
Them: yes, but can i get 35k a year.
Me: No, its a GS5 that pays 30k.
Them: OK how about 33k?
Me:... :| do you want the job or not?

99.9% of the time that is not even possible. And when it is it takes a lot of people to approve it and only for a very small group of jobs and people.

Or another one is someone turns the job down and a month later comes back and says I am ready to start.

30K???? Damn, thats less than half what I make.

Whats GS5?

 

[Saga]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

As already stated go to kinkos, staples, etc... or just about any other place like that.

Let alone you can use online fax as well.

So wait. You won't accept an e-mailed PDF, but some random person faxing something from Kinko's is totally legit? I'm failing to see the logic on this one. Excuse me while I go to my local Kinko's and fax a signed hand-written contract to my state treasurer stating that my neighbor is selling me their house for $1. They won't even know what hit them.

 

[dbk]

Originally posted by: looker001
I recently graduated from university, do i really need to submit a transcript for federal job?

Usually the job announcement will tell you what you need to qualify (a combination of specialized experience and education/training).
If don't have any specialized experience and are looking to qualify based on education then you should submit your transcript.