Perhaps you are aware of that, but I think it is unreasonable to expect them to know that. In most of today's world, people accept e-mail submissions for such things. I realize that the state dept does not because you told me, but I may have called and asked if I could submit what you wanted via e-mail too. To dismiss me as a potential candidate for such a question if asked professionally is an example of someone in your position not doing their job very well imo.
Perhaps you are aware of that, but I think it is unreasonable to expect them to know that. In most of today's world, people accept e-mail submissions for such things. I realize that the state dept does not because you told me, but I may have called and asked if I could submit what you wanted via e-mail too. To dismiss me as a potential candidate for such a question if asked professionally is an example of someone in your position not doing their job very well imo.
dbk
Lifer
- Apr 23, 2004
- 17,685
- 10
- 81
Job listings are federal positions are very detailed compared to non-fed positions.
It's not "send me your resume to blahblah@blahbalh.com" but a whole page of what forms to send in and how to send them in.
for example look at this listing
Very detailed instructions.
What part of...
"Also the faxs are scanned in, they don't come in and get touched by human hands. That is why the cover sheet has a barcode on it."
did ya not get?
Its says what we accept in the job listing. As others have already pointed out, if you don't like that then don't apply.
I look at that as you being a idiot. If you can't follow very simple rules just to apply for a job what kind of employee would you make.
EDIT: what dbk posted.
Look, I work for my county government so I understand how things like this are handled. It isn't about whether or not one is capable of following the rules. It is about finding out if an e-mail can or cannot be sent in place of a fax. That is not breaking a rule. That is asking a question.
There are many things that are written in stone and many things that are written but flexible. However, both are sometimes written the exact same way so the reader can't tell the difference for certain. This occurs both inside and outside of government.
*adds Marlin1975 to his buddy list
I live in the DC area and if I get laid off, I'm sending you my resume!
I live in the DC area and if I get laid off, I'm sending you my resume!
facepalm.
What part of...
"You may fax your resume and all required documents to (478) 757-3144. If you submit the supporting documents via fax, you MUST include the official fax cover sheet found at the following link..."
is so hard to understand. It list what options there are. You don;t get to make them up because you got your way in school/home/etc...
If you can't understand that then you really think I am going to try and get you into a high up TopSecret level job?
And this is Fed Gov. Everything is written in stone, its the LAW!!! Our rules and regulations are law. We don't get to change or bend them. We can't hire the person we want if 3 others did better on the application and so on.
Have you ever been given a set of instructions, asked those in charge if you could do it a different way that is easier for you, and they said something to the effect of, "Oh ya sure. That's perfectly fine."?
That is why they called and asked. There is nothing they did not understand about your instructions. They were simply trying to make things easier. That is not a bad sign of someone's character or ability. That is a good sign. You want people to try and make things better by thinking outside of the box.
In regards to the law thing, again, they don't know that. You do. There is nothing wrong with asking. Just let them know nicely on the phone and that's that.
NO!!! WHAT PART OF OUR RULES ARE LAW DO YOU NOT GET??? People have been removed from their jobs 6+ months later as they were not hired correct, i.e. legal. I had a posting of mine removed as they did not like a couple things. I had to rebuild it to fix a couple words and 1 sheet.
And yes they are being childish idiots. With so many kids being treated with paper gloves today, no red ink billys feelings will get hurt. Or we don;t use letter grades anymore, etc... i see idiots all the time thinking they can have it there way as they always get their way.
This is the real world, you don;t get it your way. Esp with the Gov.
I editted my post. I just don't understand why you could not have simply stated to them, "No, we cannot accept it that way" and be done with it without blacklisting their resume. If they were unprofessional then that is a reason to dismiss them but you shouldn't dismiss them for asking a question.
Where did I say I blacklisted their resume?
Please don't ever apply for Fed Gov, we have enough idiots that don't get it.
I have applied to several jobs over the years requiring faxed copies of transcripts. I simply contacted the records office of my university and requested them to fax a copy to the number supplied with the job application it cost me a few bucks for the copy, but it took all of 10 minutes to take care of.
Anybody that can not follow simple written instructions to apply for a job is not worth the effort. I worked for a university for several years and had a few graduate assistants working under me during that time. My job posting had several absolutely necessary to do this job requirements listed, and specifically stated to campus mail your resume that dropped off resumes would be unacceptable. Within hours of posting the job on our site I would get the knock on the door with job wanting hopefuls there to explain why they don't meet the necessary requirements but should still be considered for the job. The best part was I would put a sign on my door stating that "if they were here to drop off a resume for GA position that it would be trashed and not considered for the job." They still knocked and I would send them away crying half the time. I did not care how qualified they were it was all about following instruction which was an important part of the GA's job.
I feel your pain Marlin1975 nothing worse than somebody who cant follow clearly written instructions.
Anybody that can not follow simple written instructions to apply for a job is not worth the effort. I worked for a university for several years and had a few graduate assistants working under me during that time. My job posting had several absolutely necessary to do this job requirements listed, and specifically stated to campus mail your resume that dropped off resumes would be unacceptable. Within hours of posting the job on our site I would get the knock on the door with job wanting hopefuls there to explain why they don't meet the necessary requirements but should still be considered for the job. The best part was I would put a sign on my door stating that "if they were here to drop off a resume for GA position that it would be trashed and not considered for the job." They still knocked and I would send them away crying half the time. I did not care how qualified they were it was all about following instruction which was an important part of the GA's job.
I feel your pain Marlin1975 nothing worse than somebody who cant follow clearly written instructions.
Not only that but these are not entry level jobs, but ones that are higher up and require TopSecret and usually at min. a BS degree and several years of Exp.
BeauJangles
Lifer
- Aug 26, 2001
- 13,941
- 1
- 0
Just out of curiosity, what did this entail? People not conforming to the letter of the hiring process or people lying about their qualifications?
By using the words "may" and "if" you make it sound like the applicant has the option of submitting this information another way.
Had you said:
"You MUST fax your resume and all required documents to (478) 757-3144. You MUST include the official fax cover sheet found at the following link..."
then it would be clear that faxing is your only option.
dainthomas
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2004
- 14,930
- 3,909
- 136
Hurray for archaic inflexible government regulations!!!
I realize the way it's done is the law. I also realize that people sometimes just like bitching about their jobs. However, even you have to admit that the vast majority of the population is unable to comprehend the extent to which the US government is a convoluted maze of unnecessarily complex regulations developed and run by indifferent lifetime bureaucrats (present company excluded, of course). The federal government is NOT the real world in this regard.
Just understand that someone being exposed to this the first time might not be aware of these facts. I'm sure the people who have applied multiple times are well aware of the many retarded hoops that need to be jumped through.
Jeff7181
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2002
- 18,368
- 11
- 81
Wow, what level of asshattery is required to apply for your job?
Seriously... fax machines are outdated... they're old technology. There are better and more secure methods of sending official documents. Just because the federal government uses it and requires it, doesn't make it the best. Thus, it is not unreasonable for someone to ask if there's an alternative method they can use to send the appropriate documents. Very few people have their own fax machines now days so if they have to use a fax they'd be required to go to a place like Kinko's. That sure is inconvenient for people - if you can't understand that, you're more ignorant than them.
No most of the time its not the persons fault but the hiring mangers, HR, etc...
Like say I had a Vet and let you the hiring manger skip him and hired Bob. Well say the Vet a couple months later found out we skipped him. He files a compliant and it wins. The court orders us to remove Bob as I, HR, and the selecting offical, you, did not follow the law.
And yes it has happened. Not in my office, at least for me, but I have read several cases where it did.
I also have had 1 hiring manger try to skip a vet. I caught it and told them no go on that cert slection.
You stated that your job is to weed out those that do not qualify correct? You think these people are idiots right? Putting two and two together and I would say my accusation is at least reasonable just like calling and asking if sending an e-mail is a reasonable question.
What part of we have been sued many times for many different reason. Fax machines hold up in court more so then any thing else.
Fax machines are simple, work, and stand up in court. We also don't even touch the faxs. They are scanned in with a special cover sheet.
But yea I am a ass for thinking someone applying for a TS job with a college degree should have to follow the rules(Law). :roll:
So basically a guy got removed from there Federal Government job when they technically did nothing wrong regardless of how efficient they actually were. Great. I thought the idea here was to keep the good ones and fire the crap?
So in other words you just make up things and think they should apply. :roll:
I have to document every person I remove, and for as hard as I try I can't find the law that lets me do it because you are a idiot. Trust me, I wish I could sometimes.
Now if you don't follow the rules and don;t send in your documents or self select yourself out of the job, then yes I remove you for that.
Nope, Law covers all. Just like I have to hire a Vet that barly makes the cut over someone that is a expert but is not a vet.
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