Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
Yeah, the fine will do a great job of replacing the child's life. If I kill your mother, would you be OK with me just paying a fine? Same principle. A life destroyed with only a fine as punishment.
ZV
Since this turned into an abortion thread I wanted to ask one thing to pro-choice people.. if we are going to draw the line at when life begins, which you'd have to admit is a gray area that none of us really knows for sure, why not at a clear cut time such as conception? Is it not more logical to say life begins at conception rather than some arbitrary date? Who decides when a "bunch of cells" become life? Aren't we all just a bunch of cells?
theknight571
Platinum Member
- Mar 23, 2001
- 2,896
- 2
- 81
Kind of a follow up question / scenario.
- Man leaves and wants nothing to do with woman or baby
- Woman doesn't put man's name on birth certificate, or go after him for support in any way, and hasn't seen nor heard from him at all since the day the test came back positive. (5 + years)
- Woman marries, and new husband wants to officially adopt the child.... does the biological father need to be consulted / notified before the adoption can take place?
- Man leaves and wants nothing to do with woman or baby
- Woman doesn't put man's name on birth certificate, or go after him for support in any way, and hasn't seen nor heard from him at all since the day the test came back positive. (5 + years)
- Woman marries, and new husband wants to officially adopt the child.... does the biological father need to be consulted / notified before the adoption can take place?
Maybe he realized that women can give the child up for adoption and absolve themselves of further legal obligations, and he thought that men might have similar rights.
I think she has to spend a certain amount of effort in trying to notify the father before the husband can adopt.
Welcome to a world really run by women. When it comes to children, as a man you have no say in anything. If she gets pregnant you have no rights about the child. I find it funny that women want equality and what not, but if they have a kid, screw equality, they will do whatever they can to get $$$ from the man.
It's pretty sad. All the people saying do have sex if you're not prepared to have a kid, look at it from a rational point of view. The woman knows she can get pregnant and thus should not have sex unless she is prepared to have the kid and pay for it her own damn self.
It's pretty sad. All the people saying do have sex if you're not prepared to have a kid, look at it from a rational point of view. The woman knows she can get pregnant and thus should not have sex unless she is prepared to have the kid and pay for it her own damn self.
I have not researched it, but I have heard of a few rare cases of real accidental pregnancies. A guy was taking a shower and his semen got on a washcloth (let's not go into how 
). A girl took a shower directly after him and used the washcloth to scrub her , and the little swimmers took advantage of the situation. At that point, it is completely in the hands of the woman. If she did not ask him to sign the birth certificate, then later on she'd have a difficult time even forcing him to have a DNA test. But if she did ask him to sign the birth certificate, and he refused, she can file a paternity suit, and he's pretty much legally bound for the next 18 years, unless he skates off to another state far away.
Even in that situation, it is pretty tough to argue it was 100% accidental. Unintentional? Absolutely. But getting sperm on something that has a good possibility of getting near a woman's is not the smartest thing to do.
The OP should change the topic title, since we've pretty much established that sex is not an accident. And in the very very rare case it was accidental, the man is still at the mercy of the woman as far as child support goes.
). A girl took a shower directly after him and used the washcloth to scrub her , and the little swimmers took advantage of the situation. At that point, it is completely in the hands of the woman. If she did not ask him to sign the birth certificate, then later on she'd have a difficult time even forcing him to have a DNA test. But if she did ask him to sign the birth certificate, and he refused, she can file a paternity suit, and he's pretty much legally bound for the next 18 years, unless he skates off to another state far away.Even in that situation, it is pretty tough to argue it was 100% accidental. Unintentional? Absolutely. But getting sperm on something that has a good possibility of getting near a woman's
is not the smartest thing to do.The OP should change the topic title, since we've pretty much established that sex is not an accident. And in the very very rare case it was accidental, the man is still at the mercy of the woman as far as child support goes.
You know, there would be a lot fewer issues like this (dad doesn't want child and woman doesn't abort, or the reverse and she aborts) if people would have the maturity to talk to their partners about how they would handle an unexpected pregnancy BEFORE they start having a sexual relationship. It wouldn't prevent all problems, because sometimes people feel differently when they're actually in the situation instead of it being hypothetical, but you can't make an informed decision about whether your partner is suitable if you don't ask first. If you know your partner's opinion to begin with, you can choose not to have sex with him/her if it is really out of line with yours. You don't want a child and she says she could never abort a pregnancy, don't have sex. You are extremely anti-abortion and she is all for it, don't have sex.
Too few people stop to think about whether the person they're fvcking would be someone they would find acceptible to be a parent to their possible child. That 'ho' you picked up at the bar and slept with might be someone who will be raising your child and influencing their whole lives. Think about that before you have sex with her. This goes for LTRs, fvck buddies, and one night stands.
Too few people stop to think about whether the person they're fvcking would be someone they would find acceptible to be a parent to their possible child. That 'ho' you picked up at the bar and slept with might be someone who will be raising your child and influencing their whole lives. Think about that before you have sex with her. This goes for LTRs, fvck buddies, and one night stands.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
No, if the man concents to sex, he's just as responsible. It takes both people.
Both the man and the woman need to accept that responsibility, not only the man or only the woman.
ZV
waggy
No Lifer
- Dec 14, 2000
- 68,143
- 10
- 81
that is changing but slowly.
i know 2 men that have full custady of the children and get child support payments. so it is rare but does happen. but you are right. most of the time the man is screwed.
remember reading where a couple had sex (they used a condom). teh guy left for the milatary (i think). the women used the sperm in the condom and got herself pregnant.
the guy was on the hook for child support etc.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
Men have no rights in this area, and it's quite unfortunate. Basically, a man can be forced to care for a child he didn't want while a woman cannot be forced to do the same. On the same token, a man can be forced to give up a child that he does want because the woman doesn't want it. The system as it's currently setup is unfair.
It may be a woman's body, and I'm not suggesting that we can force a woman to have an abortion or not, but it would be nice if the man could "abort" the baby before it is born. Abortion for the man would involve proving he is the father and then filling out the necessary paperwork to absolve him of any financial responsibility. This would mean that the father could never have visitation or any other rights on the baby. IMO, this is more fair than the system we currently have in place. This might also curb the number of pregnancies stemming from women who believe they can force a man to stay with them if they get pregnant. I see the counter-argument to this as being "Well, now we have a bunch of babies out there with no financial support." I would imagine that most mothers in this situation get little to no support from the fathers anyway, as it currently stands. It's not like dead-beat dads are hard to find.
In the end, make sure if you are having sex with a girl that you are wearing protection and that both of you are on the same page regarding what would happen if she did get pregnant.
It may be a woman's body, and I'm not suggesting that we can force a woman to have an abortion or not, but it would be nice if the man could "abort" the baby before it is born. Abortion for the man would involve proving he is the father and then filling out the necessary paperwork to absolve him of any financial responsibility. This would mean that the father could never have visitation or any other rights on the baby. IMO, this is more fair than the system we currently have in place. This might also curb the number of pregnancies stemming from women who believe they can force a man to stay with them if they get pregnant. I see the counter-argument to this as being "Well, now we have a bunch of babies out there with no financial support." I would imagine that most mothers in this situation get little to no support from the fathers anyway, as it currently stands. It's not like dead-beat dads are hard to find.
In the end, make sure if you are having sex with a girl that you are wearing protection and that both of you are on the same page regarding what would happen if she did get pregnant.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
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The current ruling on the issue by the Supreme Court does only addresses a situation where the sex was forced on the woman, the father is either absent or the father has agreed to the abortion. There has been no Supreme Court ruling regarding a situation such as I have described.
ZV
That's absolutely NOT true (unless he is unaware that she was pregnant with his child and she lies to the adoption agency saying she was raped or something like that, which would be illegal.) Men have rights now that they didn't have thirty years ago. If she tries to give up the child for adoption, he must agree to it too. If he says no, he'll probably get custody of the child since she doesn't want it, and she will be legally obligated to pay child support. I know it doesn't happen that often, but it is the law.
Edit: I forgot that there *are* specific laws where women can anonymously abandon children at hospitals within a few days of birth. I don't know what would happen if the father stepped forward and proved it was his and took custody of the kid. I highly suspect that he would be well within his legal rights to get child support from her once he proves paternity and that she is the mother.
The only situation where a man may be able to avoid responsibility is if he did not give consent or was unable to give consent.
For example if the male is underaged as with the recent spate of female teacher/male student cases. That could be a case where the father could avoid being responsible for child support even after he becomes old enough to earn. This may be an extreme case but it is possible.
For example if the male is underaged as with the recent spate of female teacher/male student cases. That could be a case where the father could avoid being responsible for child support even after he becomes old enough to earn. This may be an extreme case but it is possible.
Aikouka
Lifer
- Nov 27, 2001
- 30,383
- 912
- 126
This response is really in no way bearing on you, I just hit quote after I read your response that mirrored a couple others.
From what I can tell, that's the reason you won't see me doing that. I'd say I'm a logical thinker and logically sex -> child(ren). Now, they have contraceptives that make it so the implication isn't always true (but in the purest of situation, it occurs). So now this makes me wonder, if the situation is so easily defined... why do people just not care and do it anyway? Do they think they're invincible to nature's ways?
I have friends who keep telling me to "give up the V-Card," but I simply won't just "give it up," because I don't think that's right or smart to do. Am I necessarily wrong for trying to think about this logically? I mean, you can go on and on about contraceptives lowering the chances, but playing Russian Roulette with a 6-shooter versus a gun with a hundred holding round is still just as dangerous
.What happens when the mother refueses to work things out with the father and refuses to share custody of the child but still wants to the father to pay child support, what happens then?
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