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If obama wins..

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eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
1. You are probably right on the taxes. But I think that you are wrong on the economy and jobs. Raising taxes on the top 5% while lowering it on the "bottom" 95% puts more money in more people's hands. More importantly, it puts it into the hands of people that HAVE to spend it to survive in some cases and those that WILL spend it because they really don't know how to invest and/or save.
so what would the top 5% do, stuff it in matresses?


Originally posted by: JS80
If Obama fails they will blame Bush that he made it "so bad" that Obama couldn't fix it
this


Originally posted by: yllus
Folks, you got a raise in your taxes when you went to war times two. You're either going to pay those taxes now, or pay even more taxes later. That tax hike was brought to you by President Bush. Now your only major decision is what level of blatant lying you'll get by the person who puts that tax hike into law in literal terms.
as usual a canadian offers the best insight into the US.

The top 5% can just put their funds in foreign accounts and start business in other countries. Or they can quit the rat race, and let other people who may not be as qualified compete w/ the other companies of the world. In a global environment, I want the best to lead US companies. Usually the best cost money. If the best are unwilling to sacrifice their lives because of pay and we have a 2nd rate "team", surely our economy will be hurt in the world market.

Taxes will hurt even more if we have a recession. Increasing taxes to reduce the deficit or pay social programs that maybe inefficient can cause a recession -- especially if the economy is presently just barely "chugging along"...

Instead of worrying about the deficit, we should worry about how to get a robust economy. in a robust economy, the deficit will take care of its self (or at least not be a major problem). Just my humble opinon.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,584
984
126
Originally posted by: eleison
Is it going to be that bad? Ok, I am a conservative. I would rather McCain win.. but its going to be close and theres a real possibility that McCain will lose. With that being said, for all the conservatives on this board (i.e., all the liberal weirdos, please stay out of this thread OR at least don't turn this into another Obama #1 circle jerk), how bad will it be?

Heres my take:

1) taxes will be raised -- not sure where, maybe corporate, estate, etc... after all, just raising the top 5% income will not pay for his social programs. Raising taxes has always hurt the economy, there will be more lost jobs... but then that is my humble opinion.

2) firearms rights will be curtailed -- refer to Biden in his youtube speech.

3) Medical coverage will be in shambles. When states have tried the "universal health care" or similar, it has failed.

4) the US will leave Iraq.. but the conservatives were given enough time that Iraq is now somewhat stable. leaving will not be as bad as 4 yours ago.

So.. if Obama gets elected and it does go to pot in 4 years. If you really look at it. Would it be so bad? At least the liberals can finally stop blaming Bush for all their problems. In addition, if Obama does fail, MSM will have no one to blame except themselves. I'm not saying that the current government/economic situation is great, however, I think it can get a lot worse. With that being said, sometimes, people have to loose everything before that appreciate what they do have.

I've got news for you. It's already in shambles.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,984
55,389
136
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: eleison
Is it going to be that bad? Ok, I am a conservative. I would rather McCain win.. but its going to be close and theres a real possibility that McCain will lose. With that being said, for all the conservatives on this board (i.e., all the liberal weirdos, please stay out of this thread OR at least don't turn this into another Obama #1 circle jerk), how bad will it be?

Heres my take:

1) taxes will be raised -- not sure where, maybe corporate, estate, etc... after all, just raising the top 5% income will not pay for his social programs. Raising taxes has always hurt the economy, there will be more lost jobs... but then that is my humble opinion.

2) firearms rights will be curtailed -- refer to Biden in his youtube speech.

3) Medical coverage will be in shambles. When states have tried the "universal health care" or similar, it has failed.

4) the US will leave Iraq.. but the conservatives were given enough time that Iraq is now somewhat stable. leaving will not be as bad as 4 yours ago.

So.. if Obama gets elected and it does go to pot in 4 years. If you really look at it. Would it be so bad? At least the liberals can finally stop blaming Bush for all their problems. In addition, if Obama does fail, MSM will have no one to blame except themselves. I'm not saying that the current government/economic situation is great, however, I think it can get a lot worse. With that being said, sometimes, people have to loose everything before that appreciate what they do have.

I've got news for you. It's already in shambles.

Not only that but plenty of states have universal health care, and by most objective accounts it is superior to ours, particularly in cost/benefit analysis. I don't want to have the dumb health care debate again, but to say that universal health care has failed where it's been tried is simply false.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
-snip-
His albatross will be Congress; depending on the makeup, will expect a rubber stamp from him if the Dems have full control. The country can not afford a rubber stamp on spending - it has to be curtailed to get the budget under control first and then let the economy grow to support additional wish lists.

I think that's exactly right.

Clinton had that same problem, and after the Repubs took over Congress he had to move to the right.

I think Obama is gonna get pushed around by the Dem Congress (Pelosi and Reid will still be in-charge) so I expect some rather unpopular legislative initiatives etc to ensue.

Traditionally, we seem to have usually had a Dem controled Congress with a Repub in the WH. Very few of the Dems elected to the WH have ever made it to a second term (Clinton is the only one in th elast 70 years), my guestimate about this that the Dem controled Congress with a Dem President has not gone well. I suspect that may happen again.

Racism is a touchy issue, but I think if Obama is elected Prez we may see this issue flair up in different ways, most for the worse. There have been several race groups already pushing/criticizing Obama for his lack of pursuing more race-based policies. It's rarely in the MSM, but I think we'll see it if he's elected; things like reparations etc. I also expect criticism of Obama will be seen as racially motivated by some etc.

As far as taxes, anybody thinking that raising them for the wealthy few is gonna have much result is incorrect, I'm afraid. Firstly, there just aren't many of them; secondly many of them can legitimately defer income rather easily. If you really wanna raise revenue, you need to include the HUGE group that is middle class (and maybe those below).

Raising taxes on dividend and cap gains is gonna drive the market lower. Any decent investment decision is made on an *after-tax basis*. Increased taxes mean your RoR is lower, thus the value of the asset (stock) is lower.

Guns? While that's mostly a SCOTUS issue, I guess we'll see efforts by the Dem Congress to re-enact some bans.

SCOTUS judges? Seems to me the ones mostly to retire anytime soon are the liberal judges, so the current balance will likely be maintained.

I don't see UHC (really UHInsurance) working well. Too may people who HAVE health insurance end up bankrupt when there are major medical expenses.

I don't see any Iraq difference no matter who wins the WH.

Economy & Energy policy? For all the talk and jive, the government hasn't much to do with this. I suppose they could refuse to allow more drilling keeping gas prices unneccessarily high and causing some stubborn inflation that interest rates can NOT combat effectively.

Aside from drilling I don't see much difference. Both side wanna impose the stupid Cap-n-Trade crap that is nothing more than an additional tax (more inflation due to higher energy costs). If taxes go up now for most people it'll slow demand and worsen the economy unless foreign demand picks up the slack; but that would require a continuing weak dollar.

The restiction on 1st Amendment rights on broadcasting may pass (I can't remember the name of it). This is gonna cause a big problem if passed IMO.

I also predict new and rather unpopular programs will arise (all for our own good) under one party control. Not sure what they'll be, But I do expect it to happen.

Fern
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
As far as firearms...there isnt much a president can do. The SCOTUS just ruled on the 2nd amendment.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: quest55720

Other governments might have a decent UHC not this government. There is not 1 program that is not full of bloat. If you really wish medicare level coverage for your family then I guess the Pelosi/Obama plan is what you want.

A mediocre plans beats the crap of the "no plan" that 47 million Americans have now. You do realize that that is almost 1/6 of the country, right?

Perhaps. Until it comes time to pay for it.

UHC is failing in Massachusetts, one of the heathiest, wealthiest, and whitest states in the nation.

I say we float the bill using at least part of the 650+ million dollars a day we spend in Iraq.

So you want to keep running that ole credit card up but change where the (borrowed) dollars go? Brilliant!!

How about this for a really insane, off the wall, batshit crazy idea. How about we stop spending more money then we have before we start spending money on anything new at all. When we actually start paying off that magic credit card and have extra money left over, THEN we can start talking about how to spend it.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
1. You are probably right on the taxes. But I think that you are wrong on the economy and jobs. Raising taxes on the top 5% while lowering it on the "bottom" 95% puts more money in more people's hands. More importantly, it puts it into the hands of people that HAVE to spend it to survive in some cases and those that WILL spend it because they really don't know how to invest and/or save.

2. Not a chance. Any law that is passed will be immediately challenged and the SCOTUS will still have the same makeup for a while

3. There are a lot of other, successful implementations of UHC around the world. Just because a couple of states have done a less than stellar job of it doesn't mean that those are the only choices that Obama has to choose from when considering if/how he would implement such a program.

4. Agreed for the most part

1: Exactly how many people do the lower 50% employ since that is a main driving force of the economy.

2: So it only won't be curtailed because he probably couldn't pass it by the SCOTUS at this moment, that's comforting.

3: Now that is full of crapola.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
If Obama wins (which he will) we will get bigger government and less liberties as it has been throughout the last 100yrs. War will continue despite his followers beliefs. Whats the difference between Obama and McCain? Very little.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Originally posted by: eleison
Is it going to be that bad? Ok, I am a conservative. I would rather McCain win.. but its going to be close and theres a real possibility that McCain will lose. With that being said, for all the conservatives on this board (i.e., all the liberal weirdos, please stay out of this thread OR at least don't turn this into another Obama #1 circle jerk), how bad will it be?

Heres my take:

1) taxes will be raised -- not sure where, maybe corporate, estate, etc... after all, just raising the top 5% income will not pay for his social programs. Raising taxes has always hurt the economy, there will be more lost jobs... but then that is my humble opinion.

2) firearms rights will be curtailed -- refer to Biden in his youtube speech.

3) Medical coverage will be in shambles. When states have tried the "universal health care" or similar, it has failed.

4) the US will leave Iraq.. but the conservatives were given enough time that Iraq is now somewhat stable. leaving will not be as bad as 4 yours ago.

So.. if Obama gets elected and it does go to pot in 4 years. If you really look at it. Would it be so bad? At least the liberals can finally stop blaming Bush for all their problems. In addition, if Obama does fail, MSM will have no one to blame except themselves. I'm not saying that the current government/economic situation is great, however, I think it can get a lot worse. With that being said, sometimes, people have to loose everything before that appreciate what they do have.

I agree mostly. I can stomach an Obama win.