If Anyone Owes Reparations It's Democrats

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: dali71
Originally posted by: Phokus
OP doesn't know history, yesterday's democrats are today's republicans:

From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.[3]

You start out in 1954 by saying, "great person, *****, *****." By 1968 you can't say "*****"?that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

It was the modern day GOP's decision to be the party of the racist white south after LBJ 'betrayed' the racist dixiecrats and they decided to jump ship onto your racist platform.

How about we check out the context of that quote?

From http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=6953:

one more Herbert omission is worth pointing out. He writes:

In 1981, during the first year of Mr. Reagan?s presidency, the late Lee Atwater gave an interview to a political science professor at Case Western Reserve University, explaining the evolution of the Southern strategy: ?You start out in 1954 by saying, ?N*****, n*****, n*****,?? [edited, because I won't have that word posted here] said Atwater. ?By 1968, you can?t say ?n*****? ? that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states? rights, and all that stuff. You?re getting so abstract now [that] you?re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you?re talking about are totally economic things, and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.?

Oh my. It looks like a clear admission from Atwater.

But if you suspect Bob Herbert may have left something out...well, you've been paying attention. Here is context. Atwater is clearly disavowing the "Southern Strategy", and arguing that when you've gotten so abstract that you'll argue that "fiscal conservatism" is a stand-in for previously open racism, then racism is becoming less of a problem.

Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry Dent and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan] doesn?t have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he?s campaigned on since 1964? and that?s fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster?

Questioner: But the fact is, isn?t it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps??

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, 'N*****, n*****, n*****.' By 1968 you can't say 'n*****' - that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me - because obviously sitting around saying, 'We want to cut this,' is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than 'n*****, n*****.'



Now it actually makes sense, but I wouldn't have expected someone as intellectually dishonest as you to be fair and accurate when quoting someone.

Funny how you complain about intellectual dishonesty when:

1) what i quoted was everything that was in wikipedia, so you implying that i intentionally 'cut out' quotes is EXTREMELY dishonest on your part

2) 2/3rd of the bolded parts, you imply that i didn't include, when i clearly did:

You start out in 1954 by saying, "great person, *****, *****." By 1968 you can't say "*****"?that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".[9]

WHICH IS EXACTLY AS WHAT YOU QUOTED

3), you're implying that i'm talking about ronald reagan in your other bolding when i clearly never mentioned him. Also, you notice he mentions the 'new southern strategy' of reagan, which is in line with abstract racism of 'cutting taxes, cutting programs', so i don't even know what your point is.

I expect an apology from you, but i highly doubt i'd get one.

Edit:

Also, do you not understand that shifting from saying "N***er N***er" to "forced busing" to 'cutting taxes' is still appealing to racism as Lee Atwater says? Lookup 'dogwhistle politics' http://www.slate.com/id/2178379/

Here's the relevant bolded parts, even he admits cutting taxes is about hurting blacks more than whites and it gets around the problem of looking like a racist :roll:

You start out in 1954 by saying, "great person, *****, *****." By 1968 you can't say "*****"?that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,390
29
91
Only in Phokusworld does "cutting taxes" = "N***er N***er".

.....and you still dishonestly leave out the continuation of Atwater's point yet again, either that or your intellect is too dim to comprehend his point. Let me post the "relevant bolded parts" for you:

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".[9]

Either this goes right over your head (most likely) or you're just a liar when confronted with the the entire quote. Which is it Phokus?
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Corn
Only in Phokusworld does "cutting taxes" = "N***er N***er".

.....and you still dishonestly leave out the continuation of Atwater's point yet again, either that or your intellect is too dim to comprehend his point. Let me post the "relevant bolded parts" for you:

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".[9]

Either this goes right over your head (most likely) or you're just a liar when confronted with the the entire quote. Which is it Phokus?

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. ***But*** I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".[9]

Or maybe YOU chose to ignore the first sentence and also the 3rd sentence starting with 'But'.

And you're going to totally ignore this, where he admits the 'cutting taxes' thing hurts blacks more than whites?

You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

"Only in Phokusworld does "cutting taxes" = "N***er N***er"." indeed :roll:

And please tell me where i 'left out' the continuation of atwater's point, this is what i quoted:

You start out in 1954 by saying, "great person, *****, *****." By 1968 you can't say "*****"?that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".[9]

WHICH AGAIN IS WHAT YOU QUOTED. What is with you conservatives and being lying scumbags?
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Hmmm yes, Atwater admits 'cutting taxes' hurts blacks more than whites and having to campaign on "N*GG** N*GG**" to "forced busing" to "low taxes" when being blatantly racist becomes less popular, but let me tell you why Atwater thinks campaigning 'low taxes' has nothing to do with race...

republicans.txt
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
Didn't know it was possible Barry, but you just made the entire internet dumbing by posting that. Congratulations.
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
The two parties were so different back then than they are today that they really only share a name and little else.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,390
29
91
Well, thank you for admitting that instead of being intentionally dishonest, you are simply unable to comprehend what Atwater was actually. Notice that you ignore the "I'm not saying that" and highlight the "But" without noting the "if" right after the "But".

Ordinarily I'd hold you accountable for your lies, but as you've shown, you really are incapable of understanding the subtlies of nuance and conversations easily go over your head--thus your lies are derived of ignorance instead of intentionally. There is no shame in being stupid, it's not really your fault.

Oh, and as a side note, if I remember correctly, the percentage of white vs black families on welfare/foodstamps is within a single percentage point. Any cuts to that program would hurt white families as equally as black families. Be careful, that fact alone might hurt your head.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,198
126
Maybe if Republicans stuck to their civil rights roots instead of pursuing "Southern Strategy" you'd have an argument.
Now they are going to deservedly get run over by a demographic freight train.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: senseamp
Maybe if Republicans stuck to their civil rights roots instead of pursuing "Southern Strategy" you'd have an argument.
Now they are going to deservedly get run over by a demographic freight train.

Actually, they'll adapt, pay for marketing, and count on a 'short memory'. They'll find some wedge issues to use - the way they did with gay marriage in some cases.

It may only mitigate the damage, but it'll help them. It'll probably also be dishonest, as this thread is. But it is fair to say the parties weren't as difference before the 60's.

Surprisingly, they were seen as not too far apart with both Nixon and Kennedy claiming the civil rights mantle in 1960, Democrats still not purging their party of the southern racists.

Basically, the rankings were 'non-Southern Democrats' as surprisingly still racist but the least so, then Republicans not all that different, and the Southerners in a class by themselves.

And before the shift, the south was still technically democrat - though they largely voted Republican on policies, they just wanted the benefit of 'majority status'.

I'd say the two things the least clear to people today are how the *whole* country was a lore more racist than people realize until the 50's, and how ugly the Republicans were later.

Republicans still get away with pretending to be a party that believes in nothing but equal rights, while having used racism to further its interests. Their role has largely been to turn racism into 'acceptable' stories and give people what they want - so for example, they were never *for* segregation - only the 'principle' of states' rights that would just so happen to allow segregationist laws. Or how they're not for poverty, just for cutting anti-poverty programs for manufactured reasons, 'they actually harm the poor' and such.

It's pretty short-sighted - they'll put a dollar in less government in their pocket today regardless of how it makes the nation less productive down the road.

That's why with the exception of Eisenhower's pet project of the national highway system, the investments in the nation tend to be democratic initiatives.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
It's well known Republicans and Democrats switched sides in the middle of the last century.

How is this knuckle-dragger still allowed to post? :laugh:
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Corn
Well, thank you for admitting that instead of being intentionally dishonest, you are simply unable to comprehend what Atwater was actually. Notice that you ignore the "I'm not saying that" and highlight the "But" without noting the "if" right after the "But".

Ordinarily I'd hold you accountable for your lies, but as you've shown, you really are incapable of understanding the subtlies of nuance and conversations easily go over your head--thus your lies are derived of ignorance instead of intentionally. There is no shame in being stupid, it's not really your fault.

Oh, and as a side note, if I remember correctly, the percentage of white vs black families on welfare/foodstamps is within a single percentage point. Any cuts to that program would hurt white families as equally as black families. Be careful, that fact alone might hurt your head.

I'm sorry you can't read and understand concepts, here let me spell it out for you since you're a little baby.

You start out in 1954 by saying, "great person, *****, *****." By 1968 you can't say "*****"?that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".[9]

1) You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. 2) And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. 3) I'm not saying that. 4) But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. 5) You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".

1) he admits that 'cutting taxes' and 'economing things' that the GOP espouses 'hurts blacks'.

2) admits that 'subconsciously maybe that is a part of it' (part of what? OH YEAH HURTING BLACKS, AND SENDING A SUBCONSCIOUS MESSAGE TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS, HURRF, DURRFFF, I AM CORN I CANNOT READ). [also doesn't understand the concept of 'dog whistle politics]

3) "I'm not saying that" (not saying what? he just did, or at the very least admitting that maybe it's not the reason HE does it, but it's a reason why the GOP strategy is based on it? Ambiguous"

4) "But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other." (What racial problem? Oh i get it, MAYBE HE'S REFERRING TO THE VERY FIRST FUCKING SENTENCE, here let me refresh it for you: "You start out in 1954 by saying, "Ni**er, *****, *****." By 1968 you can't say "*****"?that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes" Oh right, the racial problem of APPEARING RACIST, idiot). Lookup 'dogwhistle politics' you ignorant sloth.

5) "You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****"." Oh and hey, he pretty much reaffirms this in point number 5

Sorry about your learning disability corn, i really am.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Few African Americans voted for Bush and other Republicans in the 2004 election. Following the re-election of President George W. Bush, Ken Mehlman, Bush's campaign manager and Chairman of the RNC, held several large meetings with African-American business, community, and religious leaders. In his speeches, he apologized for his party's use of the Southern Strategy in the past. When asked about the strategy using race as an issue to build GOP dominance in the once-Democratic South, Mehlman replied, "Republican candidates often have prospered by ignoring black voters and even by exploiting racial tensions," and, "By the '70s and into the '80s and '90s, the Democratic Party solidified its gains in the African-American community, and we Republicans did not effectively reach out. Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."[26]

At least a few republicans in the GOP are honest about the party using racial polarization to win votes from racist white southerners
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,390
29
91
Originally posted by: Phokus

2) admits that 'subconsciously maybe that is a part of it' (part of what? OH YEAH HURTING BLACKS, AND SENDING A SUBCONSCIOUS MESSAGE TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS, HURRF, DURRFFF, I AM CORN I CANNOT READ). [also doesn't understand the concept of 'dog whistle politics]

"maybe"........"MAYBE"? He specifically states "I'm not saying that". I rest my case you moron.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Phokus

2) admits that 'subconsciously maybe that is a part of it' (part of what? OH YEAH HURTING BLACKS, AND SENDING A SUBCONSCIOUS MESSAGE TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS, HURRF, DURRFFF, I AM CORN I CANNOT READ). [also doesn't understand the concept of 'dog whistle politics]

"maybe"........"MAYBE"? He specifically states "I'm not saying that". I rest my case you moron.

Hmm yes, lets ignore the rest of the sentence

But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".

If he's not saying that, why is he mentioning the racial problem and getting rid of it?

HURF DURF, MY NAME IS CORN AND I SELECTIVELY READ PASSAGES TO FIT MY AGENDA.

Case closed, you're an idiot.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Here's 2 paragraphs of about the GOP's historical use of racist campaign strategies and how it evolved due to the changing times in order to not look racist based on the speaker's own personal experience.

But let me focus on one sentence and ignore everything else to prove my point.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Here's a good article about Reagan's use of dog whistle politics and how he played to racists when he used the term 'states rights', among other dog whistle terms (i'm sure corn will completely misread this article and somehow find that reagan was a champion for black people)

http://www.slate.com/id/2178379/pagenum/2

Dog-Whistling DixieWhen Reagan said "states' rights," he was talking about race.
By David GreenbergPosted Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2007, at 4:09 PM ET

An academic journal would seem a more likely place than the New York Times op-ed page for a pitched debate about a 27-year-old political speech. But the speech that David Brooks, Bob Herbert, Paul Krugman, and guest contributor Lou Cannon have been arguing about for the last two weeks deserves the broader airing it's getting.

The bone of contention, as readers of "Chatterbox" know, is Ronald Reagan's 1980 endorsement of "states' rights" at the Neshoba County Fair in Mississippi, close to the site of the ruthless 1964 murder of three civil rights workers. This matters because Reagan's election to the presidency that year hinged on bringing into the GOP fold several new groups?including the rank and file of white Southerners, the bulk of whom, for generations after the Civil War, wouldn't dare check a Republican name on a national ballot. Ever since, Dixie, once "solidly" Democratic, has been more or less solidly Republican.

The current row is about interpreting Reagan's defense of "states' rights" and his choice of venue. Was this language, in this place, an endorsement of the white South's wish to reverse the 20-year-old trend of using federal laws (and troops when necessary) to protect the rights of African-Americans? Or was Reagan's remark just an expression of his well-known disdain for "big government"?and his choice of Neshoba County an unhappy blunder? In the ambiguity lies the answer.

[snip]

In its simplest form, this multitiered message relied on code words. No one who used the phrase "states' rights" in living memory of the massive resistance movement against forced desegregation could be unaware of the message of solidarity it sent to Southern whites about civil rights. (The phrase, of course, had been bound up with racism at least since John Calhoun championed it in his defense of slavery in the 1830s.) But because the term also connoted a general opposition to the growth of the federal government's role in economic life, nonracist whites could comfort themselves that politicians like Nixon and Reagan were using it innocently?and thus shrug off any guilt they might feel for being complicit in racist campaigning. It was a dog whistle to segregationists. In the same vein, Reagan's use of phrases linked to insidious racial stereotypes?his talk of Cadillac-driving welfare queens, or "young bucks" buying T-bone steaks with food stamps?pandered to bigots while making sure not to alienate voters whom starker language would have scared away.

[snip]
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,390
29
91
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Phokus

2) admits that 'subconsciously maybe that is a part of it' (part of what? OH YEAH HURTING BLACKS, AND SENDING A SUBCONSCIOUS MESSAGE TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS, HURRF, DURRFFF, I AM CORN I CANNOT READ). [also doesn't understand the concept of 'dog whistle politics]

"maybe"........"MAYBE"? He specifically states "I'm not saying that". I rest my case you moron.

Hmm yes, lets ignore the rest of the sentence

But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".

If he's not saying that, why is he mentioning the racial problem and getting rid of it?

HURF DURF, MY NAME IS CORN AND I SELECTIVELY READ PASSAGES TO FIT MY AGENDA.

Case closed, you're an idiot.

Please........

4) "But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other." (What racial problem? Oh i get it, MAYBE HE'S REFERRING TO THE VERY FIRST FUCKING SENTENCE, here let me refresh it for you: "You start out in 1954 by saying, "Ni**er, *****, *****." By 1968 you can't say "*****"?that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes" Oh right, the racial problem of APPEARING RACIST, idiot). Lookup 'dogwhistle politics' you ignorant sloth.

You're a prime example of the impossibile task of changing what is in the heart. Outward expressions of racism *is very bad*. Bad for the racist, worse for the target of the racism. I've had to deal with racists personally many times as people make racist jokes about my wife's (Jewish) or my sister-in-law's (Chaldean) ancestry. Both accept the fact that people are going to be racist, but nothing ruins their day more than the "cheap jew" or "beloved patriot" comments they have to endure constantly because, you know, it's hard to tell without a yarmulke or accent.

Curbing outward expressions of racism is half the battle. Once the shame of racism takes hold of the unabashed racist, the chances he's able to poison other people is significantly reduced. To any reasoned person, it is clear that this is the context to which Mr. Atwater is referring to when he states "we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other" and even then still qualifies it with an "if it is getting that abstract".

Now I'm beginning to change my opinion of your dishonesty back into the realm of the intentional, because even after you've been corrected, you still repeat this misrepresentation of his comments.

You're as bigoted as any racist I've ever come across. Well done moron.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,390
29
91
Originally posted by: Phokus
But let me focus on one sentence and ignore everything else to prove my point.

That's you in a nutshell right there.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,390
29
91
Originally posted by: Phokus
Here's a good article about Reagan's use of dog whistle politics and how he played to racists when he used the term 'states rights', among other dog whistle terms (i'm sure corn will completely misread this article and somehow find that reagan was a champion for black people)

http://www.slate.com/id/2178379/pagenum/2

Dog-Whistling DixieWhen Reagan said "states' rights," he was talking about race.
By David GreenbergPosted Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2007, at 4:09 PM ET

An academic journal would seem a more likely place than the New York Times op-ed page for a pitched debate about a 27-year-old political speech. But the speech that David Brooks, Bob Herbert, Paul Krugman, and guest contributor Lou Cannon have been arguing about for the last two weeks deserves the broader airing it's getting.

The bone of contention, as readers of "Chatterbox" know, is Ronald Reagan's 1980 endorsement of "states' rights" at the Neshoba County Fair in Mississippi, close to the site of the ruthless 1964 murder of three civil rights workers. This matters because Reagan's election to the presidency that year hinged on bringing into the GOP fold several new groups?including the rank and file of white Southerners, the bulk of whom, for generations after the Civil War, wouldn't dare check a Republican name on a national ballot. Ever since, Dixie, once "solidly" Democratic, has been more or less solidly Republican.

The current row is about interpreting Reagan's defense of "states' rights" and his choice of venue. Was this language, in this place, an endorsement of the white South's wish to reverse the 20-year-old trend of using federal laws (and troops when necessary) to protect the rights of African-Americans? Or was Reagan's remark just an expression of his well-known disdain for "big government"?and his choice of Neshoba County an unhappy blunder? In the ambiguity lies the answer.

[snip]

In its simplest form, this multitiered message relied on code words. No one who used the phrase "states' rights" in living memory of the massive resistance movement against forced desegregation could be unaware of the message of solidarity it sent to Southern whites about civil rights. (The phrase, of course, had been bound up with racism at least since John Calhoun championed it in his defense of slavery in the 1830s.) But because the term also connoted a general opposition to the growth of the federal government's role in economic life, nonracist whites could comfort themselves that politicians like Nixon and Reagan were using it innocently?and thus shrug off any guilt they might feel for being complicit in racist campaigning. It was a dog whistle to segregationists. In the same vein, Reagan's use of phrases linked to insidious racial stereotypes?his talk of Cadillac-driving welfare queens, or "young bucks" buying T-bone steaks with food stamps?pandered to bigots while making sure not to alienate voters whom starker language would have scared away.

[snip]


Wow, a lefty's opinion piece proves Reagan and all Republican's are racists. You're a parody of yourself.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Phokus
But let me focus on one sentence and ignore everything else to prove my point.

That's you in a nutshell right there.

Let me draw you a picture because you don't seem to understand the concept of irony:

You start out in 1954 by saying, "great person, *****, *****." By 1968 you can't say "*****"?that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

And subconsciously maybe that is part of it.
I'm not saying that. (hi, my name is corn, i can only focus in on this part because i'm a dumbass with no reading comprehension and misinterpret everything i read) But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me?because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "great person, *****".[9]

 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Phokus
Here's a good article about Reagan's use of dog whistle politics and how he played to racists when he used the term 'states rights', among other dog whistle terms (i'm sure corn will completely misread this article and somehow find that reagan was a champion for black people)

http://www.slate.com/id/2178379/pagenum/2

Dog-Whistling DixieWhen Reagan said "states' rights," he was talking about race.
By David GreenbergPosted Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2007, at 4:09 PM ET

An academic journal would seem a more likely place than the New York Times op-ed page for a pitched debate about a 27-year-old political speech. But the speech that David Brooks, Bob Herbert, Paul Krugman, and guest contributor Lou Cannon have been arguing about for the last two weeks deserves the broader airing it's getting.

The bone of contention, as readers of "Chatterbox" know, is Ronald Reagan's 1980 endorsement of "states' rights" at the Neshoba County Fair in Mississippi, close to the site of the ruthless 1964 murder of three civil rights workers. This matters because Reagan's election to the presidency that year hinged on bringing into the GOP fold several new groups?including the rank and file of white Southerners, the bulk of whom, for generations after the Civil War, wouldn't dare check a Republican name on a national ballot. Ever since, Dixie, once "solidly" Democratic, has been more or less solidly Republican.

The current row is about interpreting Reagan's defense of "states' rights" and his choice of venue. Was this language, in this place, an endorsement of the white South's wish to reverse the 20-year-old trend of using federal laws (and troops when necessary) to protect the rights of African-Americans? Or was Reagan's remark just an expression of his well-known disdain for "big government"?and his choice of Neshoba County an unhappy blunder? In the ambiguity lies the answer.

[snip]

In its simplest form, this multitiered message relied on code words. No one who used the phrase "states' rights" in living memory of the massive resistance movement against forced desegregation could be unaware of the message of solidarity it sent to Southern whites about civil rights. (The phrase, of course, had been bound up with racism at least since John Calhoun championed it in his defense of slavery in the 1830s.) But because the term also connoted a general opposition to the growth of the federal government's role in economic life, nonracist whites could comfort themselves that politicians like Nixon and Reagan were using it innocently?and thus shrug off any guilt they might feel for being complicit in racist campaigning. It was a dog whistle to segregationists. In the same vein, Reagan's use of phrases linked to insidious racial stereotypes?his talk of Cadillac-driving welfare queens, or "young bucks" buying T-bone steaks with food stamps?pandered to bigots while making sure not to alienate voters whom starker language would have scared away.

[snip]


Wow, a lefty's opinion piece proves Reagan and all Republican's are racists. You're a parody of yourself.

Yes, clearly when Reagan spoke at an infamous site where several civil rights workers were murdered and his use of 'states rights' and other dog whistle talking points, these 'facts' are clearly made up by the LIE-BERAL media washington post owned Slate.

Ronald Reagan would NEVER try to appeal to southern white dixiecrats... "Reagan Democrats"? Heh no such thing, another liberal concoction.

 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.[3]
- Richard Nixon strategist, Kevin Phillips

Another manufactured quote by the LIBERAL MEDIA, corn.
 

dali71

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2003
1,117
21
81
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Phokus
Here's a good article about Reagan's use of dog whistle politics and how he played to racists when he used the term 'states rights', among other dog whistle terms (i'm sure corn will completely misread this article and somehow find that reagan was a champion for black people)

http://www.slate.com/id/2178379/pagenum/2

Dog-Whistling DixieWhen Reagan said "states' rights," he was talking about race.
By David GreenbergPosted Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2007, at 4:09 PM ET

An academic journal would seem a more likely place than the New York Times op-ed page for a pitched debate about a 27-year-old political speech. But the speech that David Brooks, Bob Herbert, Paul Krugman, and guest contributor Lou Cannon have been arguing about for the last two weeks deserves the broader airing it's getting.

The bone of contention, as readers of "Chatterbox" know, is Ronald Reagan's 1980 endorsement of "states' rights" at the Neshoba County Fair in Mississippi, close to the site of the ruthless 1964 murder of three civil rights workers. This matters because Reagan's election to the presidency that year hinged on bringing into the GOP fold several new groups?including the rank and file of white Southerners, the bulk of whom, for generations after the Civil War, wouldn't dare check a Republican name on a national ballot. Ever since, Dixie, once "solidly" Democratic, has been more or less solidly Republican.

The current row is about interpreting Reagan's defense of "states' rights" and his choice of venue. Was this language, in this place, an endorsement of the white South's wish to reverse the 20-year-old trend of using federal laws (and troops when necessary) to protect the rights of African-Americans? Or was Reagan's remark just an expression of his well-known disdain for "big government"?and his choice of Neshoba County an unhappy blunder? In the ambiguity lies the answer.

[snip]

In its simplest form, this multitiered message relied on code words. No one who used the phrase "states' rights" in living memory of the massive resistance movement against forced desegregation could be unaware of the message of solidarity it sent to Southern whites about civil rights. (The phrase, of course, had been bound up with racism at least since John Calhoun championed it in his defense of slavery in the 1830s.) But because the term also connoted a general opposition to the growth of the federal government's role in economic life, nonracist whites could comfort themselves that politicians like Nixon and Reagan were using it innocently?and thus shrug off any guilt they might feel for being complicit in racist campaigning. It was a dog whistle to segregationists. In the same vein, Reagan's use of phrases linked to insidious racial stereotypes?his talk of Cadillac-driving welfare queens, or "young bucks" buying T-bone steaks with food stamps?pandered to bigots while making sure not to alienate voters whom starker language would have scared away.

[snip]


Wow, a lefty's opinion piece proves Reagan and all Republican's are racists. You're a parody of yourself.

Yes, clearly when Reagan spoke at an infamous site where several civil rights workers were murdered and his use of 'states rights' and other dog whistle talking points, these 'facts' are clearly made up by the LIE-BERAL media washington post owned Slate.

Ronald Reagan would NEVER try to appeal to southern white dixiecrats... "Reagan Democrats"? Heh no such thing, another liberal concoction.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/09/opinion/09brooks.html

Today, I?m going to write about a slur. It?s a distortion that?s been around for a while, but has spread like a weed over the past few months. It was concocted for partisan reasons: to flatter the prejudices of one side, to demonize the other and to simplify a complicated reality into a political nursery tale.

The distortion concerns a speech Ronald Reagan gave during the 1980 campaign in Philadelphia, Miss., which is where three civil rights workers had been murdered 16 years earlier. An increasing number of left-wing commentators assert that Reagan kicked off his 1980 presidential campaign with a states? rights speech in Philadelphia to send a signal to white racists that he was on their side. The speech is taken as proof that the Republican majority was built on racism.

The truth is more complicated.

In reality, Reagan strategists decided to spend the week following the 1980 Republican convention courting African-American votes. Reagan delivered a major address at the Urban League, visited Vernon Jordan in the hospital where he was recovering from gunshot wounds, toured the South Bronx and traveled to Chicago to meet with the editorial boards of Ebony and Jet magazines.

Lou Cannon of The Washington Post reported at the time that this schedule reflected a shift in Republican strategy. Some inside the campaign wanted to move away from the Southern strategy used by Nixon, believing there were more votes available in the northern suburbs and among working-class urban voters.

But there was another event going on that week, the Neshoba County Fair, seven miles southwest of Philadelphia. The Neshoba County Fair was a major political rallying spot in Mississippi (Michael Dukakis would campaign there in 1988). Mississippi was a state that Republican strategists hoped to pick up. They?d recently done well in the upper South, but they still lagged in the Deep South, where racial tensions had been strongest. Jimmy Carter had carried Mississippi in 1976 by 14,000 votes.

So the decision was made to go to Neshoba. Exactly who made the decision is unclear. The campaign was famously disorganized, and Cannon reported: ?The Reagan campaign?s hand had been forced to some degree by local announcement that he would go to the fair.? Reagan?s pollster Richard Wirthlin urged him not to go, but Reagan angrily countered that once the commitment had been made, he couldn?t back out.

The Reaganites then had an internal debate over whether to do the Urban League speech and then go to the fair, or to do the fair first. They decided to do the fair first, believing it would send the wrong message to go straight from the Urban League to Philadelphia, Miss.

Reagan?s speech at the fair was short and cheerful, and can be heard at: http://www.onlinemadison.com/f...agan/reaganneshoba.mp3. He told several jokes, and remarked: ?I know speaking to this crowd, I?m speaking to a crowd that?s 90 percent Democrat.?

He spoke mostly about inflation and the economy, but in the middle of a section on schools, he said this: ?Programs like education and others should be turned back to the states and local communities with the tax sources to fund them. I believe in states? rights. I believe in people doing as much as they can at the community level and the private level.?

The use of the phrase ?states? rights? didn?t spark any reaction in the crowd, but it led the coverage in The Times and The Post the next day.

Reagan flew to New York and delivered his address to the Urban League, in which he unveiled an urban agenda, including enterprise zones and an increase in the minimum wage. He was received warmly, but not effusively. Much of the commentary that week was about whether Reagan?s outreach to black voters would work.

You can look back on this history in many ways. It?s callous, at least, to use the phrase ?states? rights? in any context in Philadelphia. Reagan could have done something wonderful if he?d mentioned civil rights at the fair. He didn?t. And it?s obviously true that race played a role in the G.O.P.?s ascent.

Still, the agitprop version of this week ? that Reagan opened his campaign with an appeal to racism ? is a distortion, as honest investigators ranging from Bruce Bartlett, who worked for the Reagan administration and is the author of ?Impostor: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy,? to Kevin Drum, who writes for Washington Monthly, have concluded.

But still the slur spreads. It?s spread by people who, before making one of the most heinous charges imaginable, couldn?t even take 10 minutes to look at the evidence. It posits that there was a master conspiracy to play on the alleged Klan-like prejudices of American voters, when there is no evidence of that conspiracy. And, of course, in a partisan age there are always people eager to believe this stuff.

Peddle your insipid bullshit somewhere else.




 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Originally posted by: dali71
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Corn
Originally posted by: Phokus
Here's a good article about Reagan's use of dog whistle politics and how he played to racists when he used the term 'states rights', among other dog whistle terms (i'm sure corn will completely misread this article and somehow find that reagan was a champion for black people)

http://www.slate.com/id/2178379/pagenum/2

Dog-Whistling DixieWhen Reagan said "states' rights," he was talking about race.
By David GreenbergPosted Tuesday, Nov. 20, 2007, at 4:09 PM ET

An academic journal would seem a more likely place than the New York Times op-ed page for a pitched debate about a 27-year-old political speech. But the speech that David Brooks, Bob Herbert, Paul Krugman, and guest contributor Lou Cannon have been arguing about for the last two weeks deserves the broader airing it's getting.

The bone of contention, as readers of "Chatterbox" know, is Ronald Reagan's 1980 endorsement of "states' rights" at the Neshoba County Fair in Mississippi, close to the site of the ruthless 1964 murder of three civil rights workers. This matters because Reagan's election to the presidency that year hinged on bringing into the GOP fold several new groups?including the rank and file of white Southerners, the bulk of whom, for generations after the Civil War, wouldn't dare check a Republican name on a national ballot. Ever since, Dixie, once "solidly" Democratic, has been more or less solidly Republican.

The current row is about interpreting Reagan's defense of "states' rights" and his choice of venue. Was this language, in this place, an endorsement of the white South's wish to reverse the 20-year-old trend of using federal laws (and troops when necessary) to protect the rights of African-Americans? Or was Reagan's remark just an expression of his well-known disdain for "big government"?and his choice of Neshoba County an unhappy blunder? In the ambiguity lies the answer.

[snip]

In its simplest form, this multitiered message relied on code words. No one who used the phrase "states' rights" in living memory of the massive resistance movement against forced desegregation could be unaware of the message of solidarity it sent to Southern whites about civil rights. (The phrase, of course, had been bound up with racism at least since John Calhoun championed it in his defense of slavery in the 1830s.) But because the term also connoted a general opposition to the growth of the federal government's role in economic life, nonracist whites could comfort themselves that politicians like Nixon and Reagan were using it innocently?and thus shrug off any guilt they might feel for being complicit in racist campaigning. It was a dog whistle to segregationists. In the same vein, Reagan's use of phrases linked to insidious racial stereotypes?his talk of Cadillac-driving welfare queens, or "young bucks" buying T-bone steaks with food stamps?pandered to bigots while making sure not to alienate voters whom starker language would have scared away.

[snip]


Wow, a lefty's opinion piece proves Reagan and all Republican's are racists. You're a parody of yourself.

Yes, clearly when Reagan spoke at an infamous site where several civil rights workers were murdered and his use of 'states rights' and other dog whistle talking points, these 'facts' are clearly made up by the LIE-BERAL media washington post owned Slate.

Ronald Reagan would NEVER try to appeal to southern white dixiecrats... "Reagan Democrats"? Heh no such thing, another liberal concoction.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/09/opinion/09brooks.html

Today, I?m going to write about a slur. It?s a distortion that?s been around for a while, but has spread like a weed over the past few months. It was concocted for partisan reasons: to flatter the prejudices of one side, to demonize the other and to simplify a complicated reality into a political nursery tale.

The distortion concerns a speech Ronald Reagan gave during the 1980 campaign in Philadelphia, Miss., which is where three civil rights workers had been murdered 16 years earlier. An increasing number of left-wing commentators assert that Reagan kicked off his 1980 presidential campaign with a states? rights speech in Philadelphia to send a signal to white racists that he was on their side. The speech is taken as proof that the Republican majority was built on racism.

The truth is more complicated.

In reality, Reagan strategists decided to spend the week following the 1980 Republican convention courting African-American votes. Reagan delivered a major address at the Urban League, visited Vernon Jordan in the hospital where he was recovering from gunshot wounds, toured the South Bronx and traveled to Chicago to meet with the editorial boards of Ebony and Jet magazines.

Lou Cannon of The Washington Post reported at the time that this schedule reflected a shift in Republican strategy. Some inside the campaign wanted to move away from the Southern strategy used by Nixon, believing there were more votes available in the northern suburbs and among working-class urban voters.

But there was another event going on that week, the Neshoba County Fair, seven miles southwest of Philadelphia. The Neshoba County Fair was a major political rallying spot in Mississippi (Michael Dukakis would campaign there in 1988). Mississippi was a state that Republican strategists hoped to pick up. They?d recently done well in the upper South, but they still lagged in the Deep South, where racial tensions had been strongest. Jimmy Carter had carried Mississippi in 1976 by 14,000 votes.

So the decision was made to go to Neshoba. Exactly who made the decision is unclear. The campaign was famously disorganized, and Cannon reported: ?The Reagan campaign?s hand had been forced to some degree by local announcement that he would go to the fair.? Reagan?s pollster Richard Wirthlin urged him not to go, but Reagan angrily countered that once the commitment had been made, he couldn?t back out.

The Reaganites then had an internal debate over whether to do the Urban League speech and then go to the fair, or to do the fair first. They decided to do the fair first, believing it would send the wrong message to go straight from the Urban League to Philadelphia, Miss.

Reagan?s speech at the fair was short and cheerful, and can be heard at: http://www.onlinemadison.com/f...agan/reaganneshoba.mp3. He told several jokes, and remarked: ?I know speaking to this crowd, I?m speaking to a crowd that?s 90 percent Democrat.?

He spoke mostly about inflation and the economy, but in the middle of a section on schools, he said this: ?Programs like education and others should be turned back to the states and local communities with the tax sources to fund them. I believe in states? rights. I believe in people doing as much as they can at the community level and the private level.?

The use of the phrase ?states? rights? didn?t spark any reaction in the crowd, but it led the coverage in The Times and The Post the next day.

Reagan flew to New York and delivered his address to the Urban League, in which he unveiled an urban agenda, including enterprise zones and an increase in the minimum wage. He was received warmly, but not effusively. Much of the commentary that week was about whether Reagan?s outreach to black voters would work.

You can look back on this history in many ways. It?s callous, at least, to use the phrase ?states? rights? in any context in Philadelphia. Reagan could have done something wonderful if he?d mentioned civil rights at the fair. He didn?t. And it?s obviously true that race played a role in the G.O.P.?s ascent.

Still, the agitprop version of this week ? that Reagan opened his campaign with an appeal to racism ? is a distortion, as honest investigators ranging from Bruce Bartlett, who worked for the Reagan administration and is the author of ?Impostor: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy,? to Kevin Drum, who writes for Washington Monthly, have concluded.

But still the slur spreads. It?s spread by people who, before making one of the most heinous charges imaginable, couldn?t even take 10 minutes to look at the evidence. It posits that there was a master conspiracy to play on the alleged Klan-like prejudices of American voters, when there is no evidence of that conspiracy. And, of course, in a partisan age there are always people eager to believe this stuff.

Peddle your insipid bullshit somewhere else.

Insipid bullshit? Even David Brooks (LOL CONSERVATIVE OPINION PIECE, AMIRITE CORN), even David Corn admits he used the 'states rights' dogwhistle talking point, you dolt.

DO. YOU. KNOW. WHAT. DOG. WHISTLE. POLITICS. IS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_politics

Dog-whistle politics, also known as the use of code words, is a term for a type of political campaigning or speechmaking which is employs coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has a different or more specific meaning for a targeted subgroup of the audience. The term is invariably pejorative, and is used to refer both to messages with an intentional subtext, and those where the existence or intent of a secondary meaning is disputed. According to blogger Ian Welsh,

When you speak in code(...), most of the time the only people who hear and understand what you just said are the intended group, who have an understanding of the world and a use of words that is not shared by the majority of the population.[1]

United States

One group of American code words is claimed to appeal to racism of the intended audience. The phrase "states' rights", although literally referring to powers of individual state governments in the United States, has been described as a code word for institutionalized segregation and racism.[6] Other terms that some people say are used to indicate alleged veiled racism are "crime in the streets" and "welfare queens". [7]

Oh, but you see, Reagan tried courting blacks too, so that proves he wasn't racist (whether or not he was racist is moot. The issue is whether he employed a strategy to attract racist voters, in a subtle way that wouldn't offend people (mainly southern whites). It's almost like he was trying to get as many votes as possible!

You think it was just a coincidence?

Lookup 'welfare queen'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen

A welfare queen is a pejorative phrase used in the United States to describe women who are accused of collecting excessive welfare payments through fraud or manipulation. Sensational reporting on welfare fraud began during the early-1960s, appearing in general interest magazines such as Readers Digest. The term entered the American lexicon during Ronald Reagan's 1976 presidential campaign when he described a "welfare queen" from Chicago's South Side.[1] Since then, it has become a stigmatizing label placed on recidivist poor mothers, with studies showing that it often carries gendered and racial connotations.[2][3] Although American women can no longer stay on welfare indefinitely, the term continues to shape American dialogue on poverty.

Studies show that the welfare queen idea has roots in both race and gender. Franklin Gilliam, the author of a public perception experiment on welfare, concludes that:

"While poor women of all races get blamed for their impoverished condition, African-American women commit the most egregious violations of American values. This story line taps into stereotypes about both women (uncontrolled sexuality) and African-Americans (laziness)."

[3]

Keep pretending Reagan didn't use dog whistle politics to lure racist white southerners into the GOP fold.

If you don't believe that, then you don't believe in the idea of 'Reagan Democrats'