I Sell Dead Babies

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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I would agree that an analysis commissioned by Planned Parenthood is inherently suspect, however if they are describing it accurately the people who actually conducted the analysis did not know who their client was and PP had no input into how it was done.
The only way that would possibly work is if Planned Parenthood hired someone at random to select the firm who conducted the analysis. In any case, watch the videos; the sequences are essentially continuous.

Your response to me saying "Look how round that orange is!" is "But apples are red!"
The sole point of my comment was that poster saying "Look, I'm using these words from the article you posted", but those words were just more drivel from the people that released the video in the first place. I was not making any comment on the matter itself.
lol Fair enough.

Re: Government funding of PP(someone can correct me if I am wrong)- From what I understand, Government does not provide x amount of $ to PP. What Government does fund are particular Services that PP provides to Patients then Bills the appropriate Government entities for reimbursement. So if a Law is passed not to "fund PP", it would specifically target PP as not being eligible to receive reimbursement for otherwise funded by the Government Services. IOWs, other organizations could still receive Funding for the same services offered by PP, just not PP itself.

If that be accurate, it would seem a number of possibilities exist as to why PP would be targeted this way:

1) PP is just the most organized institution for providing those Services. Destroying PP would hinder greatly the availability of such Services.

2) PP's existence is common knowledge so defunding it certainly has great Political capital for certain Voting blocks.

3) Destroying PP will create a large vacuum in Services that in combination with other recent moves within Government Non-Profit funding policies could end up being provided by Religious or similar organizations with a far more Conservative view of Women's Health issues.

4) Destroying PP will make replacing those Services in certain States extremely difficult as various roadblocks can be erected to thwart small players from replacing those Services.
Nobody is aiming to stop low-cost services for poor women, dude. The movement to defund Planned Parenthood is aimed straight at forcing it to divest itself of abortion services. That doesn't mean there won't be collateral damage, of course. Planned Parenthood would not be destroyed if it's defunded. It would divest itself of its abortion business by divesting it into a separate group, then the non-abortion group would once again apply for government funding to deliver the same services. Ideologically that is attractive; practically it is problematic. I highly doubt there is much overlap in such clinics, so for at least one year poor women's health care would be severely disrupted. Beyond that first year, there would be some duplication in management and facilities to maintain abortion-Planned Parenthood and non-abortion-Planned Parenthood as separate entities, resulting in some shift away from Planned Parenthood to other such agencies, but probably also some extra cost to women seeking abortions or other health care. That extra money has to come from somewhere. Marginal clinics might close; certainly marginal abortion clinics would close. At the very least abortion accessibility would suffer; almost certainly poor women's health care would also suffer, even though that wouldn't be the aim. You can't force duplication of scarce resources without additional waste. Also, there are many people extremely strongly supportive of abortion; it's almost a sacrament. I seriously doubt these people are going to allow abortion to go away regardless of whatever hoops must be jumped through, so I seriously doubt that abortions would drop much if at all.

I liken this to the movement to allow gay marriage as long as we don't call it marriage. We already have prohibitions against using federal money (including block grants - Planned Parenthood gets its money in block grants, not in per-service fees) to provide abortion services; it's largely a fiction since money is fungible, but that's the nature of the world. Personally I see no value in forcing duplication to gain a stronger fiction of separation.

EDIT: Two other points here: If Planned Parenthood loses its federal funding, there might be more abortions. A LOT of Planned Parenthood's client base are poor sexually active teenage girls, not exactly a demographic known for making good choices. If a convenient clinic closes, some of those girls will undoubtedly forgo birth control. On the other hand, being pregnant is probably much less likely to be ignored.

Also, if you want to be cynical, a more likely "hidden target" might be Planned Parenthood's political donations and activities, all of which go to Democrats. A particular politician may or may not be mortally offended by abortion, but it's virtually certain that he is mortally offended by people working against his gaining and keeping power.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
why do we care about this?

I need like a 2 sentence summation.
Besides John's pithy reply:

If Planned Parenthood is defunded, some poor women will have less access to health care, including but almost certainly not limited to abortion.

Did it in one! Um, not including that last sentence. And, um, that last one. And - shit.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Body parts. Flying everywhere.

-John

KYC2oZB.jpg
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
They can go to the nearest Hospital, per Obama Care.

Planned Parenthood, is just Government funded abortion clinics.

Many of us don't appreciate our taxes going to fund abortions, and abortion clinics.

I guess Hospitals are now also, Government funded abortion clinics.

-John
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,157
24,094
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You are as dishonest as a politician.

By giving organizations like Planned Parenthood, 600 Million Dollars in funding, Planned Parenthood can commit as many abortions as it wants to. Which is a lot of abortions.

-John

Wrong as usual. What is the drink of choice tonight?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
You are as dishonest as a politician.

By giving organizations like Planned Parenthood, 600 Million Dollars in funding, Planned Parenthood can commit as many abortions as it wants to. Which is a lot of abortions.

-John
You would prefer that women not be allowed to own property, I presume? There is a reason why it is ideologically impossible for a libertarian to be anti-choice. Self-ownership is the fundamental basis of private property rights.
Plus, this is just poor women. The wealthy don't use PP, but they get abortions just the same. And will, even if abortion were illegal.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
He knows no better, apparently.
He's just another one of those Walker/Ryan idiot liars, who claim to worship Ayn Rand while ignoring that being a pro-choice atheist was integral to her objectivist ideology.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
You would prefer that women not be allowed to own property, I presume? There is a reason why it is ideologically impossible for a libertarian to be anti-choice. Self-ownership is the fundamental basis of private property rights.
Plus, this is just poor women. The wealthy don't use PP, but they get abortions just the same. And will, even if abortion were illegal.
I thought you were arguing that Government doesn't pay for abortions?

-John
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
I thought you were arguing that Government doesn't pay for abortions?

-John
Now I'm arguing that women have property rights, and that only government can enforce taking those away from them (and that won't be cheap either).
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Yeah, you're a bullshit artist.

I'm with you that a woman has complete control over her body and reproductive rights (I am an Ayn Rand Objectivist) but like Ayn Rand, I don't think others should be taxed or be forced to commit an abortion because someone else "needs it."

-John
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
If you don't like abortion, and wish to prevent them, then you must compensate the woman for both her labor and the baby.

Welcome to capitalism.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
Yeah, you're a bullshit artist.

I'm with you that a woman has complete control over her body and reproductive rights (I am an Ayn Rand Objectivist) but like Ayn Rand, I don't think others should be taxed or be forced to commit an abortion because someone else "needs it."

-John
'An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn).

Abortion is a moral right—which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?'
- Ayn Rand
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
If you don't like abortion, and wish to prevent them, then you must compensate the woman for both her labor and the baby.

Welcome to capitalism.
No, rather, she will likely suffer for her mistake.

-John
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
'An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn).

Abortion is a moral right—which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?'
- Ayn Rand
I'm complaining about spending my taxes on the pregnant woman. She is free to abort or not abort, but I don't want to pay for either choice.

These are the consequences of her life and her decisions. Not mine.

-John
 
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