I screwed up bad thanks to a torque wrench that didn't click

[iRONic]

A ford wasn't my first choice but I couldn't get my preferred one at a decent price due to Covid inflation back then.



I'm curious.. which set do you end up using the most? I started with a 1/2" and that's all I have right now.. but as I stated, I"m getting more and more into home and car DIY.

The 1/2” drive during tire rotation on the wheel nuts.

 

[Indus]

I don't see why a broken wheel stud cost you 600 dollars to repair even if it were an aftermarket hub. Knock out the broken stud and install a new one. If you paid 600 dollars you got ripped off big time!

$65 new lugnuts (old were rusted)
$10 rust penetrating oil
$23 breaking bar
$30 lugnut removing socket


$278 new OEM wheel hub
$25 tax for the above (got a receipt for it)
$180 labor for the mechanic (took up almost 3 hours of his time.. couldn't figure out why the replacement studs didn't fit wheel hub, went to another source and same problem.. realized wheel was aftermarket and needed replacing)

I was hoping to have the problem fixed myself with just the expenses at the top with the gear I already owned!

 

[pcgeek11]

$65 new lugnuts (old were rusted)
$10 rust penetrating oil
$23 breaking bar
$30 lugnut removing socket


$278 new OEM wheel hub
$25 tax for the above (got a receipt for it)
$180 labor for the mechanic (took up almost 3 hours of his time.. couldn't figure out why the replacement studs didn't fit wheel hub, went to another source and same problem.. realized wheel was aftermarket and needed replacing)

I was hoping to have the problem fixed myself with just the expenses at the top with the gear I already owned!

It shouldn't be hard to get the proper sized wheel studs ( aftermarket or not) without buying an entire hub assembly. The mechanic should have been able to get it done if you couldn't.

Take a stud out and go to an auto parts store and match it up.

 

[Indus]

It shouldn't be hard to get the proper sized wheel studs ( aftermarket or not) without buying an entire hub assembly. The mechanic should have been able to get it done if you couldn't.

Take a stud out and go to an auto parts store and match it up.

Do you not understand we could not match the stud to anything at two different auto part stores and the only way to fix it in time was to bite the bullet and get a new wheel hub?

Unlike some people who have two or more cars in their family.. I've got only one so I can't have it out of service for too long!

 

[Hans Gruber]

Do you not understand we could not match the stud to anything at two different auto part stores and the only way to fix it in time was to bite the bullet and get a new wheel hub?

Unlike some people who have two or more cars in their family.. I've got only one so I can't have it out of service for too long!

You should consider buying your tires at Costco, Discount Tires or getting your oil changed at a car dealership that includes tire rotation. It would save you a lot of potential trouble.

 

[Indus]

You should consider buying your tires at Costco, Discount Tires or getting your oil changed at a car dealership that includes tire rotation. It would save you a lot of potential trouble.

I can do my own oil change.. I can also rotate my own tires (although I've not done it to this vehicle previously).

So I was quite surprised when the torque wrench I set to 100 ft-lb never clicked and the lugnut just cracked.

If anything is certain.. I do know I didn't use more than 100 ft lb of force and I suspect an impact wrench which tire shops use.. would have ended up creating the same problem.. except maybe worse!

 

[pcgeek11]

Do you not understand we could not match the stud to anything at two different auto part stores and the only way to fix it in time was to bite the bullet and get a new wheel hub?

Unlike some people who have two or more cars in their family.. I've got only one so I can't have it out of service for too long!

I didn't mean to offend you. It is odd how a decent mechanic could not match a simple wheel stud .... Sorry for your predicament, I'm glad you got it repaired.

 

[Indus]

I didn't mean to offend you. It is odd how a decent mechanic could not match a simple wheel stud .... Sorry for your predicament, I'm glad you got it repaired.

I think the biggest lesson learned besides the correct torque wrench in this is.. if you buy a 2nd hand car.. jack it up, look at the wheels, underside and replace the stuff that is not good within a few months.

Don't wait on it for when the time is right - example I held off on tire rotation for 3 years.

It's way better to replace faulty things ahead of time than when they actually are on the brink of breaking!

And as others have mentioned Ford rusts.. so I've put my second coat of undercoat this year.. but the mechanic suggested to do it every year so I can get another 5-7 years out of it minimum.

I bought my 2012 Ford Explorer with 131k miles

Now its upto 139k and so far I've had to do:
3 oil changes (self)
2 undercoats (self)
2 x wipers (self)
2 x air conditioner air coolant (self)
1 battery change (self)
1 alternator change
1 strut mount change
1 wheel hub change
1 tire rotation
1 wiper fluid machine pump change

I guess that's par for the course for a car with 135k+ miles in about 4 years of ownership.

 

[Indus]

@Hans Gruber Before and after



Was the top right one that cracked..

 

[Hans Gruber]

@Hans Gruber Before and after

View attachment 91193

Was the top right one that cracked..

View attachment 91194

Those lugs are not going to break even with that rust. I hope you replaced the brake rotors as well. Those look awful with all that rust on top.

 

[Paperdoc]

Personally, I would not necessarily rush to replace that rotor. I'd check three items first.
1. On inner and outer edges of the clean wear path of the rotor, are the rusty areas raised or level with the rest? That is, are they ridges? If so, you MIGHT want them turned down.
2. Most important: what is the thickness of the clean worn areas? There ought to be a spec (maybe stamped into the rotor) of minimum thickness. If it is thick enough, just cleaning up the surfaces is enough. To measure the thickness you may need to remove any edge ridge.
3. I use a rotary wire brush in my hand electric drill to scrub the rust and dirt off the rotor area around the bolt holes. This is the surface that contacts the inside face of the wheel hub. Likewise I clean that hub contact area. That way when you re-assemble you can be sure the wheel is fastened on exactly straight (not angled by underlying lumps) so the wheel does not wobble as it turns, and your torques are correct.

Either way, clean matching rotors on BOTH sides of the car and re-install.

 

[mindless1]

$65 new lugnuts (old were rusted)
$10 rust penetrating oil
$23 breaking bar
$30 lugnut removing socket


$278 new OEM wheel hub
$25 tax for the above (got a receipt for it)
$180 labor for the mechanic (took up almost 3 hours of his time.. couldn't figure out why the replacement studs didn't fit wheel hub, went to another source and same problem.. realized wheel was aftermarket and needed replacing)

I was hoping to have the problem fixed myself with just the expenses at the top with the gear I already owned!

Odds are that the stud was over-torqued previously and snapped due to this, not your torque wrench. The exception is if the aftermarket hub was a very low quality generic and if it was, odds are it wouldn't have lasted long anyway. At the same time there are several ~$100+ major brand aftermarket hubs that should have fair service live. That's $100 fair market price, not after a shop markup!

You need a new mechanic. The hubs are about $165, not $278. I realize shops need to make a profit and often hide some of that with parts markups, but at the same time, there is mercy on customers and not charging an arm and a leg for what should be a $200 repair including parts. The studs not fitting sounds like a nonsense story to drum up more profit, or a truly incompetent mechanic that bought the wrong studs.

It's a pretty simple thing to extract the old stud, measure it with a caliper, and select a new stud based on the measurement or that of the hub hole. Plus it is not really your (billable) fault if the mechanic did not have common size studs in stock already, so is not going to two different parts stores trying to find what he should already have!

Ford metal is not especially prone to this. I frequent an Explorer forum (and own a 5th gen) and just do not see this problem reported more than once in a blue moon, and it's always due to some aggravating factor like the last shop that touched the studs, using an impact wrench for final (gross over-) torque. This likely isn't a Ford issue at all, any shop can over-torque the studs on any vehicle.

The rotor looks fine. Rust on the end is irrelevant. Extreme rust in the vanes could be a problem if you drive it like you stole it, or haul loads down long mountain roads, in which case an extreme amount of rust can hinder airflow through the cooling vanes, but I've read no report of brake fade to cause focus on this.

Do sand off any corrosion on contact areas and put anti-seize (or silicone paste) on the hub center where it contacts the rotor, and on that area of the wheel. This alone will make rotor wheel removal much easier next time. Reapply that every few years, does not need done with every tire rotation if you're putting thousands of miles on per yer and rotate on a proper schedule.

 

[mindless1]

You should consider buying your tires at Costco, Discount Tires or getting your oil changed at a car dealership that includes tire rotation. It would save you a lot of potential trouble.

I feel the exact opposite. That is what causes the problems in the first place, letting someone else touch your vehicle instead of DIY. How much care do you really think a discount tire shop is going to take, letting their low paid grunts do *free* tire rotations?

Granted in this case, the damage might have already been done when a shop replaced the hub, was over-torqued at that point. Over-torqued lugs don't necessarily fail immediately.

At best it is just a fishing expedition for them to find other things to repair. At worst, they suggest repairs that aren't needed and break things that weren't broken. I get it that some people don't want to DIY but it's probable they also don't want to deal with the aftermath either. Pick your poison.

 

[Indus]

Those lugs are not going to break even with that rust. I hope you replaced the brake rotors as well. Those look awful with all that rust on top.

No I'm honestly thinking of doing brakes in the summer next year or maybe trading in for a newer 2nd hand.

Leaning towards keeping it for a while though.

Odds are that the stud was over-torqued previously and snapped due to this, not your torque wrench. The exception is if the aftermarket hub was a very low quality generic and if it was, odds are it wouldn't have lasted long anyway. At the same time there are several ~$100+ major brand aftermarket hubs that should have fair service live. That's $100 fair market price, not after a shop markup!

You need a new mechanic. The hubs are about $165, not $278. I realize shops need to make a profit and often hide some of that with parts markups, but at the same time, there is mercy on customers and not charging an arm and a leg for what should be a $200 repair including parts. The studs not fitting sounds like a nonsense story to drum up more profit, or a truly incompetent mechanic that bought the wrong studs.

It's a pretty simple thing to extract the old stud, measure it with a caliper, and select a new stud based on the measurement or that of the hub hole. Plus it is not really your (billable) fault if the mechanic did not have common size studs in stock already, so is not going to two different parts stores trying to find what he should already have!

Ford metal is not especially prone to this. I frequent an Explorer forum (and own a 5th gen) and just do not see this problem reported more than once in a blue moon, and it's always due to some aggravating factor like the last shop that touched the studs, using an impact wrench for final (gross over-) torque. This likely isn't a Ford issue at all, any shop can over-torque the studs on any vehicle.

The rotor looks fine. Rust on the end is irrelevant. Extreme rust in the vanes could be a problem if you drive it like you stole it, or haul loads down long mountain roads, in which case an extreme amount of rust can hinder airflow through the cooling vanes, but I've read no report of brake fade to cause focus on this.

Do sand off any corrosion on contact areas and put anti-seize (or silicone paste) on the hub center where it contacts the rotor. This alone will make wheel removal much easier next time. Reapply that every few years, does not need done with every tire rotation if you're putting thousands of miles on per yer and rotate on a proper schedule.

Thanks a lot.

I am always welcome to constructive criticism. And yes I did find it weird but I also trust the mechanic more than other mechanics in my area since he did a few things for me on the cheap previously.. like strut mount change for $60 + parts (I think the part was $129 at the time).

This is the first time I've had to pay him so much but yes your explanation makes perfect sense that everyone wants to raise prices so better off getting into DIY.

That's what I'm doing.. for example I was quoted $8000 to fix a bathroom that had 2 loose tiles in 2021 (apparently they were glued on and thinset was never used). After that I learned to DIY and do it right..

Sure tools are expensive at first but if you're not in a rush and want to do it correctly, you end up doing a much better job than even a professional!

I think going forward I'll plan a job ahead of time and a week where I won't be need the car desperately and then do it with the best info available on the forum..

 

[DaaQ]

Love Harbor Freight Tools but their 1/2 inch Pittsburgh Torque Wrench is horrible. Never clicked once after I did a tire rotation myself and I snapped the stud.

Then took it over to the mechanic but apparently my car had an aftermarket wheel hub so I had to buy that replacement instead of a $15 stud.

$600 down the drain.. OUCH!

Any recommendations for a torque wrench that won't cause me a disaster like that next time?

And I'm trying to repair my car more and more myself so if anyone can recommend me good repair channels on Youtube for a Ford Explorer.. I'd be grateful!

Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

Ford Explorer and Ranger technicians online. Explorer ST. Explorer Police Intercepter. EcoBoost tuning. Lincoln Aviator forums. Offroad events. 4x4 and rock crawler modifications.

www.explorerforum.com

 

[DaaQ]

I didn't mean to offend you. It is odd how a decent mechanic could not match a simple wheel stud .... Sorry for your predicament, I'm glad you got it repaired.

Thats a front wheel rotor the studs are mounted to the electronic hub assembly. behind that.

 

[DaaQ]

I think the biggest lesson learned besides the correct torque wrench in this is.. if you buy a 2nd hand car.. jack it up, look at the wheels, underside and replace the stuff that is not good within a few months.

Don't wait on it for when the time is right - example I held off on tire rotation for 3 years.

It's way better to replace faulty things ahead of time than when they actually are on the brink of breaking!

And as others have mentioned Ford rusts.. so I've put my second coat of undercoat this year.. but the mechanic suggested to do it every year so I can get another 5-7 years out of it minimum.

I bought my 2012 Ford Explorer with 131k miles

Now its upto 139k and so far I've had to do:
3 oil changes (self)
2 undercoats (self)
2 x wipers (self)
2 x air conditioner air coolant (self)
1 battery change (self)
1 alternator change
1 strut mount change
1 wheel hub change
1 tire rotation
1 wiper fluid machine pump change

I guess that's par for the course for a car with 135k+ miles in about 4 years of ownership.

Try to get one that went back away from transverse engine, 2011-2018or19 leaking waterpump is a 3k repair where the motor needs removed. There is a seep hole on the front of engine but the pump is internal.

I would recommend up to 2010's or 2020 and up.

BTW that is a northern vehicle and salted roads do that to all vehicles.

 

[Torn Mind]

Try to get one that went back away from transverse engine, 2011-2018or19 leaking waterpump is a 3k repair where the motor needs removed. There is a seep hole on the front of engine but the pump is internal.

I would recommend up to 2010's or 2020 and up.

BTW that is a northern vehicle and salted roads do that to all vehicles.

Classic Ford.

Fords can work for the first 100k. The next 100k is an high-maintenance adventure that is inevitable.

 

[DaaQ]

Classic Ford.

Fords can work for the first 100k. The next 100k is an high-maintenance adventure that is inevitable.

All the companies are like that. Btw my co worker is using a 2017 f350 that has hit 300k miles. But it is a company vehicle that gets routine maintenance done.

Read an article that the Cyber truck isn't charging as promised. What do you do?

I can give examples of problems with any manufacturer. VW anyone? Chrysler thought they could get past that one too.
That's just this week of reading all those.

All vehicles require preventative and routine maintenance. Design errors happen. Manufacturing errors happen. Cost cutting and just in time delivery are issues.

Sorry OP I was just trying to give you Explorer advice from extensive knowledge of the model.

Funny how people that don't commute in areas that use salt on the road think it's the manufacturer's fault for the rust.

I could give an example of 2001-2005 Explorers with a defect that indicates which plant it was built in. Not sure if it extended through the 2006-2010 model year. Depends on when the St. Louis manufacturing plant stopped Explorer production.

 

[pcgeek11]

Thats a front wheel rotor the studs are mounted to the electronic hub assembly. behind that.

I've been working on cars and trucks since I was 14 years old.
I know where the studs are mounted. They are pressed into the Wheel Hub and the Rotor slides on over the studs.

What the hell is an Electronic Hub have to do with this. There is no electronic hub assembly in the picture he posted. I see standard disc brakes and an axle drive...

I also don't think his old ass Ford is using any electric hubs...

 

[DaaQ]

I've been working on cars and trucks since I was 14 years old.
I know where the studs are mounted. They are pressed into the Wheel Hub and the Rotor slides on over the studs.

What the hell is an Electronic Hub have to do with this. There is no electronic hub assembly in the picture he posted. I see standard disc brakes and an axle drive... I don't think an electronic hub assembly uses disc brakes or has an axle through the middle.

Dude just stop. Why did you leave out your "his old ass Ford" comment? 2012 are old ass vehicles now?

It is a hub assembly. On an either front wheel drive or 4 wheel drive explorer. It engages the electronic 4x4 automatic system.
It is attached to the steering knuckle with 3 bolts and slides over the splined CV axle.
It also has the ABS sensor attached to it which you can't see in that picture. Because it is behind the wheel bearing hub assembly.
It would be more work and probably damage the bearings and machined mounting side trying to pop the stud out of that unit.
They cost anywhere from 40 to 200 depending on aftermarket or OEM unit.

Since it is a 2012 it is definitely a wheel bearing hub assembly with splined CV axle. The ya know axle nut that needs to come off along with the probably 3 bolts. Otherwise you are not getting a replacement stud back into that without removing the assembly.

 

[pcgeek11]

Dude just stop. Why did you leave out your "his old ass Ford" comment? 2012 are old ass vehicles now?

It is a hub assembly. On an either front wheel drive or 4 wheel drive explorer. It engages the electronic 4x4 automatic system.
It is attached to the steering knuckle with 3 bolts and slides over the splined CV axle.
It also has the ABS sensor attached to it which you can't see in that picture. Because it is behind the wheel bearing hub assembly.
It would be more work and probably damage the bearings and machined mounting side trying to pop the stud out of that unit.
They cost anywhere from 40 to 200 depending on aftermarket or OEM unit.

Since it is a 2012 it is definitely a wheel bearing hub assembly with splined CV axle. The ya know axle nut that needs to come off along with the probably 3 bolts. Otherwise you are not getting a replacement stud back into that without removing the assembly.

View attachment 91303

He didn't say it was a 4X4 or maybe I missed it, doesn't matter regardless.

If a mechanic can't replace a wheel stud out of a Hub without breaking it he should find another profession. Even if he has to pull the Hub which is an easy job for any mechanic.

Pretty sure most vehicles have ABS Sensors on all 4 wheels these days, That also doesn't matter, even a backyard mechanic should be able to do this in an hour or two.

 

[Torn Mind]

All the companies are like that. Btw my co worker is using a 2017 f350 that has hit 300k miles. But it is a company vehicle that gets routine maintenance done.

Read an article that the Cyber truck isn't charging as promised. What do you do?

I can give examples of problems with any manufacturer. VW anyone? Chrysler thought they could get past that one too.
That's just this week of reading all those.

All vehicles require preventative and routine maintenance. Design errors happen. Manufacturing errors happen. Cost cutting and just in time delivery are issues.

Sorry OP I was just trying to give you Explorer advice from extensive knowledge of the model.

Funny how people that don't commute in areas that use salt on the road think it's the manufacturer's fault for the rust.

I could give an example of 2001-2005 Explorers with a defect that indicates which plant it was built in. Not sure if it extended through the 2006-2010 model year. Depends on when the St. Louis manufacturing plant stopped Explorer production.

Design flaws that shorten lifespan or force a riskier repair are not maintenance or neglect problems. Power steering pumps blowing(late 2000s, early 2010 Mazdas), 1999 Ford Rangers have transmission valve body gaskets blowing. Sparks plugs blowing out of engines. Those things are not caused by a lack of maintenance, but design flaws that cripple the vehicle and its owner. Toyota has obsolescence(especially overly optimistic fluid change intervals; they build them so good they essentially tell the customer to break it sooner) and cost-cuts, but they usually don't compromise on the driveline components or even the mundane things like metal quality.

Ford builds them so that at least some never experience a problem and comeback, usually in the commercial, prosumer sectors, but others, they get the budget Ford experience.

 

[pcgeek11]

I'd rather push a Toyota than drive a Ford. LOL

A friend of mine bought a new Ford F150 with the heated tailgate feature. I asked him what that was and he said it was to keep your hands warm when pushing it in the winter.

 

[pcgeek11]

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