Originally posted by: josh6079
Business owners *are* consumers as well.
The release was intended for business owner use, not for consumers.
Business owners have different needs than consumers, so if you're suggesting there isn't a difference, then sorry, but you're wrong. MS clearly stated that the consumer availability will not be until Jan. 30.
Originally posted by: josh6079A company will sell a product to whoever will pay for it, business owner or not. All purchasers are considered consumers.
We're not talking about the group who bought it, we're talking about the intended group this version was designated towards, and it was specifically the business community, not consumers, as MS says won't be available until Jan. 30.
It's clear you're trying to shift the debate now on business owner status. That's irrelevant, and if you're going to sidestep the issue at hand (like usual), let me know so I can exit now.
Originally posted by: josh6079A small business owner is a consumer as well. Look at the definition outlining a consumer.
But consumers are not business owners. Therefore the connection you're trying to make is a rather flawed one.
Furthermore, MS differentiated between both versions by saying the business version was released now, and the consumer availability will be on Jan. 30.
Originally posted by: josh6079And? You're arument is "Vista isn't released, but is released"?
Everyone has agreed it is released to vista business owners, as we've been stating time and time again. Just because you can't make a valid case on other arguments doesn't mean you need to start putting words in other people's mouths.
Originally posted by: josh6079It was never a restriction. Microsoft sold the copies to those who had the credentials to buy them.
And they knew fully well that the product would not be launching to consumers until Jan. 30. They were receiving pre-relesed copies of consumer Vista, and have no obligation by other industry leaders for widespread support when MS clearly setup the timeline that consumer availability would not be until Jan. 30.
Originally posted by: josh6079Nvidia's responsibility is to support the OS they said their newest product is ready for, in which case would be Vista and the G80. They haven't done that.
You can't support a product that has yet to be released.
Again, there's a reason MS setup the Jan. 30 benchmark. It wasn't so other companies could assume individuals would breech that time date and then scurry around trying to meet the demands of those individuals. It was so they would have a clear idea of when support of their product for Vista should be in full existence.
Therefore, if nVidia does not release their Vista driver on or before Jan. 30 and continue to market their product as Vista ready, you will see myself and many others on this board speak out against it.
Originally posted by: josh6079Microsoft didn't say that the G80 was "Vista Ready", nVidia did. It isn't Microsoft's job to develope nVidia's drivers for them and their OS, that's nVidia's.
Nobody is saying it isn't, so again, stop with the dodging.
As I explained above, MS gave a timeline to the industry and the public. It's wrong to adopt the standard that this timeline means nothing, and should be disregarded. It's what the industry relies on, and consumers as well, on when availability will be.
Originally posted by: josh6079They released certain Vista versions for certain individuals to buy. Yes, they may not be you or I, but they are people who are entitled to that claimed support.
No, they released Business Vista for business owners. The business community, with intent for business practices, are not customers of enthusiast PC graphics (atleast not for their business).
In fact, I have yet to see the business community issue a statement condeming anyone or anything in regards to lack of a Vista driver with Geforce 8. Instead, it's those who managed to find a workaround for MS's statement of consumer availability until Jan. 30, complain that they can't have support yet, and then bashers like you carrying out their agendas.
Originally posted by: josh6079Besides, you yourself have claimed that Vista is available to some extent, so I don't really understand your position in saying it hasn't launched yet.
MS differentiated between what was released to business owners, and consumer availability for Jan. 30. In other words, what is intended for consumers hasn't launched yet.
It's what has been echoed probably a hundred times so far, yet you're still confused?
Originally posted by: josh6079I think it is wrong for nVidia not to be supporting an OS that they've advertised support with, regardless of the popularity.
Popularity? That has nothing to do with this... :roll:
nVidia's obligation with the Vista ready logo is to support Vista either if it was already available to consumers, or when it does becomes available to consumers on Jan. 30.
Originally posted by: josh6079What workaround? Microsoft sold Vista versions to those who have bought them. For some, both the G80 and Vista were valid purchases and - as you have even proclaimed - have a right to complain.
MS specifically stated consumer availability won't be until Jan. 30. Are we so supposed to disregard that standard / statement because supposedly others found workarounds?
And yes, it's called a workaround if they are consumers, even if MS aided with it. Because consumer availability isn't until Jan. 30. And despite that, I'm inclinded to believe you're confusing those who the OS was released to - buisness owners.
If MS felt compelled to give a consumer a consumer Vista, that was very sweet of them, but contradicts the statement the rest of the industry relies upon. Therefore do we attain to the needs of the individuals who breeched the timeline MS setup (even if MS was responsible), or do we maintain standing with the official, authentic time of consumer release, set to be Jan. 30.
Originally posted by: josh6079You're right, everyone running a version of Vista is either a pirate or is running a beta version. No one has bought a working, final, legit version of Vista before Jan. 30th. No one....
According to MS's statements, they shouldn't, except for business owners.
And it's not nVidia's duty to investiage this issue, but instead, something MS will reflect upon.
Originally posted by: josh6079Why should business owners have the right to complain again?
Everyone has the right to complain.
The people I hear complaining are those who can't run Vista. Whether or not they are business owners or individuals who managed to find a workaround of MS's statement that consumer availability won't be until Jan. 30 is beyond me. But it bears the question of how many of these complaints are actually from business owners, or the latter.
Originally posted by: josh6079Yes because frankly I couldn't care less if there is or isn't a Vista driver available since I don't use Vista as of yet. That doesn't mean I'm blind and can't see a consumer getting shafted by a company though, or can't tell the difference between poor support and no support.
No, I just think you couldn't pass up the oppurtunity to give nVidia a good kick. But like I said, you better expect us to keep an eye on you and the standards you apply to the other side, and how similiar they are together.
Originally posted by: josh6079People *do* have legit versions of Vista and, for reasons unbeknown to us and irrelevant for us to question, desire to run a G80 with it.
If the reasons are unknown, that should raise a red flag. Because if business owners can't run Vista with their G80, I question whether they are actually business owners using G80 for their office work (which is highly unlikely). Or if they're just those who found the workaround in obtaining Vista, and are mad because they can't get any support, when Vista isn't even available to consumers until Jan. 30.
Originally posted by: josh6079Care to elaborate?
Everyone has the right to complain. But if you think the reasons people are using G80 with Vista is irrelevant to the argument, I'd love to know how this is any more relevant. Or perhaps, again, you are shifting claims, trying to make this a personal one because you obviously lost on the issue at hand.
Originally posted by: josh6079Obviously you think *some* have that validity. Why? If nVidia hasn't false advertised and if Vista really isn't available, why do you think business owners have a right to complain about this issue?
Everyone has the right to complain. Whether those complaints have validity or merit is another issue. I've explained this above, so no need in re-typing (like I said, it's not worth losing finger-energy for you and anyone else who lacks understanding).
Originally posted by: josh6079Pardon? You assumed that I had some agenda behind the shotty XP driver claim so I gave you a specific example. Aren't you always asking for proof / links / specifics with claims?
I never critizised you for providing proof. Just said it was cherry-picking time.
Nelsieus