Wrong again. Most people in this thread have agreed that Vista Business is available right now.
Wrong again. Most people in this thread have agreed that Vista Business is available right now.
I never said Vista business wasn't.
And as I've also echoed many times (it's ashame you couldn't manage to find those comments :roll: ), MS has differentiated between the business version that has released to business owners, and the consumer availability coming Jan. 30.
And as I've also stated....eh, why don't I just quote myself. I think it's futile to continue to waste my finger energy on your lack of understanding:
Nelsieus
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
XP Pro does NOT have domain hosting support. You would need server for that as far as I know; I could be wrong though. Professional is a completely different nomenclature than Business irregardless of what features you think they include.
I am done with this thread now. If I can't convince people what MS has said, what Anand has said, then I'm never going to by repeating myself over and over. Furthermore I am tired of Apoppin and Creigs constant which-hunt and ad hominem arguments.
-Kevin
Business owners *are* consumers as well. A company will sell a product to whoever will pay for it, business owner or not. All purchasers are considered consumers.
A small business owner is a consumer as well. Look at the definition outlining a consumer.
And? You're arument is "Vista isn't released, but is released"?
It was never a restriction. Microsoft sold the copies to those who had the credentials to buy them.
Nvidia's responsibility is to support the OS they said their newest product is ready for, in which case would be Vista and the G80. They haven't done that.
Microsoft didn't say that the G80 was "Vista Ready", nVidia did. It isn't Microsoft's job to develope nVidia's drivers for them and their OS, that's nVidia's.
They released certain Vista versions for certain individuals to buy. Yes, they may not be you or I, but they are people who are entitled to that claimed support.
Besides, you yourself have claimed that Vista is available to some extent, so I don't really understand your position in saying it hasn't launched yet.
I think it is wrong for nVidia not to be supporting an OS that they've advertised support with, regardless of the popularity.
What workaround? Microsoft sold Vista versions to those who have bought them. For some, both the G80 and Vista were valid purchases and - as you have even proclaimed - have a right to complain.
You're right, everyone running a version of Vista is either a pirate or is running a beta version. No one has bought a working, final, legit version of Vista before Jan. 30th. No one....
Why should business owners have the right to complain again?
Yes because frankly I couldn't care less if there is or isn't a Vista driver available since I don't use Vista as of yet. That doesn't mean I'm blind and can't see a consumer getting shafted by a company though, or can't tell the difference between poor support and no support.
People *do* have legit versions of Vista and, for reasons unbeknown to us and irrelevant for us to question, desire to run a G80 with it. Those are the facts, even if you don't want that said version of Vista and even if you yourself can't get that version of Vista as easily as the average Joe. (No offense to Joes of course)
But you said only business owners have the right to complain:
Care to elaborate?
Obviously you think *some* have that validity. Why? If nVidia hasn't false advertised and if Vista really isn't available, why do you think business owners have a right to complain about this issue?
According to you, some versions of Vista *are* available and therefore qualify a select few to valid complaints. So you're really arguing with yourself here.
Pardon? You assumed that I had some agenda behind the shotty XP driver claim so I gave you a specific example. Aren't you always asking for proof / links / specifics with claims?
Care to show me the page here where I supposedly made these attacks? Either provide the link and quote or retract that lie.
I will if they do. IIRC, they're already doing it to some extent with a few of their cards having similar "Vista Ready" stamps on them. I can't remember the brand but I believe Ben Skywalker pointed it out in another thread.
And who was expecting attacks?
If that is indeed true, I stand corrected.
Meaning what? That a person already has one Home Premium version disc at home and want to install said OS on another computer?
What does it being "only a license" encompass?
Honestly, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really don't know. Is my first question close?
apoppin
Lifer
DEAD WRONG ... as usual
there are no *exclusions* of what *kind* of customer or which *version* of Vista is stated on the box. ... just 'vista ready'
IF you were correct, then nvidia would not have added a **disclaimer** on their website CLARIFYing their position
UNFORTUNATELY there is NO **DISCLAIMER** on the 8800 box .. it very stupidly and simply says "vista Ready" along with most of it's line including Quadros as Desktop solutions [which are vista ready] --while 8800 very clearly is not.
nvidia can't go back in time to correct its error on the boxes but they did *fix* their website
and yet you keep defending what nvidia already admitted was *wrong* by their *actions* of posting a **disclaimer**
it is really clear that you are just trying to defend the ridiculously indefensible because of your do-or-die blind devotion to your company
:thumbsdown:
The voice of reason and fact.
Who are you?
Shill or troll?
I repeat, unless you have proof that the 8800's won't run on Windows Vista after the 30th Jan. 2007 you are just trolling.
Call Microsoft...it's that simple!
Originally posted by: apoppin
more *distraction tactics* ... pointless to the thread except to inflame
at least NWN2 now works on most systems ... otoh, you cannot play it at all - or run anything useful - on *Any Vista* with a 8800
:thumbsdown:
my *problem* is there is no **disclaimer** on nvidia's boxes as there is - now - on their website.
evidently they - nvidia - *now* agree it needs a **disclaimer** ... even though you don't
Im not agreeing or disagreeing with anything.
If you really want my opinion on this matter:
1. Anyone buying a MS OS at launch is retarded.
2. Anyong dumb enough to buy a MS OS before launch for whatever reason (omgwtf aeroglass) deserves to have to wait until the official launch for a driver.
3. Anyone with a MSDN subscription has Win2k, WinXP, Win2K3, and others. They could easily install one of the other OS's in the (very short) meantime. Most of the people bitching are using pirated copies anyway.
I really dont give 2 squirts of pee either way, because there is no upside to using vista now, and a 8800GTX will run games better on XP anyway.
The release was intended for business owner use, not for consumers.
Business owners have different needs than consumers, so if you're suggesting there isn't a difference, then sorry, but you're wrong. MS clearly stated that the consumer availability will not be until Jan. 30.
We're not talking about the group who bought it, we're talking about the intended group this version was designated towards, and it was specifically the business community, not consumers, as MS says won't be available until Jan. 30.
It's clear you're trying to shift the debate now on business owner status. That's irrelevant, and if you're going to sidestep the issue at hand (like usual), let me know so I can exit now.
But consumers are not business owners. Therefore the connection you're trying to make is a rather flawed one.
Furthermore, MS differentiated between both versions by saying the business version was released now, and the consumer availability will be on Jan. 30.
Everyone has agreed it is released to vista business owners, as we've been stating time and time again. Just because you can't make a valid case on other arguments doesn't mean you need to start putting words in other people's mouths.
And they knew fully well that the product would not be launching to consumers until Jan. 30. They were receiving pre-relesed copies of consumer Vista, and have no obligation by other industry leaders for widespread support when MS clearly setup the timeline that consumer availability would not be until Jan. 30.
You can't support a product that has yet to be released.
Again, there's a reason MS setup the Jan. 30 benchmark. It wasn't so other companies could assume individuals would breech that time date and then scurry around trying to meet the demands of those individuals. It was so they would have a clear idea of when support of their product for Vista should be in full existence.
Therefore, if nVidia does not release their Vista driver on or before Jan. 30 and continue to market their product as Vista ready, you will see myself and many others on this board speak out against it.
Nobody is saying it isn't, so again, stop with the dodging.
As I explained above, MS gave a timeline to the industry and the public. It's wrong to adopt the standard that this timeline means nothing, and should be disregarded. It's what the industry relies on, and consumers as well, on when availability will be.
No, they released Business Vista for business owners. The business community, with intent for business practices, are not customers of enthusiast PC graphics (atleast not for their business).
In fact, I have yet to see the business community issue a statement condeming anyone or anything in regards to lack of a Vista driver with Geforce 8. Instead, it's those who managed to find a workaround for MS's statement of consumer availability until Jan. 30, complain that they can't have support yet, and then bashers like you carrying out their agendas.
MS differentiated between what was released to business owners, and consumer availability for Jan. 30. In other words, what is intended for consumers hasn't launched yet.
It's what has been echoed probably a hundred times so far, yet you're still confused?
Popularity? That has nothing to do with this... :roll:
nVidia's obligation with the Vista ready logo is to support Vista either if it was already available to consumers, or when it does becomes available to consumers on Jan. 30.
MS specifically stated consumer availability won't be until Jan. 30. Are we so supposed to disregard that standard / statement because supposedly others found workarounds?
And yes, it's called a workaround if they are consumers, even if MS aided with it. Because consumer availability isn't until Jan. 30. And despite that, I'm inclinded to believe you're confusing those who the OS was released to - buisness owners.
If MS felt compelled to give a consumer a consumer Vista, that was very sweet of them, but contradicts the statement the rest of the industry relies upon. Therefore do we attain to the needs of the individuals who breeched the timeline MS setup (even if MS was responsible), or do we maintain standing with the official, authentic time of consumer release, set to be Jan. 30.
According to MS's statements, they shouldn't, except for business owners.
And it's not nVidia's duty to investiage this issue, but instead, something MS will reflect upon.
Everyone has the right to complain.
The people I hear complaining are those who can't run Vista. Whether or not they are business owners or individuals who managed to find a workaround of MS's statement that consumer availability won't be until Jan. 30 is beyond me. But it bears the question of how many of these complaints are actually from business owners, or the latter.
No, I just think you couldn't pass up the oppurtunity to give nVidia a good kick. But like I said, you better expect us to keep an eye on you and the standards you apply to the other side, and how similiar they are together.
If the reasons are unknown, that should raise a red flag. Because if business owners can't run Vista with their G80, I question whether they are actually business owners using G80 for their office work (which is highly unlikely). Or if they're just those who found the workaround in obtaining Vista, and are mad because they can't get any support, when Vista isn't even available to consumers until Jan. 30.
Everyone has the right to complain. But if you think the reasons people are using G80 with Vista is irrelevant to the argument, I'd love to know how this is any more relevant. Or perhaps, again, you are shifting claims, trying to make this a personal one because you obviously lost on the issue at hand.
Everyone has the right to complain. Whether those complaints have validity or merit is another issue. I've explained this above, so no need in re-typing (like I said, it's not worth losing finger-energy for you and anyone else who lacks understanding).
I never critizised you for providing proof. Just said it was cherry-picking time.
Nelsieus
No you don't.
You said: "This site is selling the Home Premium edition"
It must be conveniant to proclaim correctness, even when the opposite is true. :roll:
My assumption is they have the license to sell it.
But nevertheless, it certainly isn't the vista availability you tried so desperately to portray.
I atleast respected you before, but now must say I think very lowly of you. I'll give you benefit of the doubt that you truly didn't know these products were launching, and just assumed they were. But it really makes me wonder if you did know and just went ahead anyways with the intent to mislead others.
Definately a :thumbsdown:
Nelsieus
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: apoppin
more *distraction tactics* ... pointless to the thread except to inflame
at least NWN2 now works on most systems ... otoh, you cannot play it at all - or run anything useful - on *Any Vista* with a 8800
:thumbsdown:
my *problem* is there is no **disclaimer** on nvidia's boxes as there is - now - on their website.
evidently they - nvidia - *now* agree it needs a **disclaimer** ... even though you don't
Im not agreeing or disagreeing with anything.
If you really want my opinion on this matter:
1. Anyone buying a MS OS at launch is retarded.
2. Anyong dumb enough to buy a MS OS before launch for whatever reason (omgwtf aeroglass) deserves to have to wait until the official launch for a driver.
3. Anyone with a MSDN subscription has Win2k, WinXP, Win2K3, and others. They could easily install one of the other OS's in the (very short) meantime. Most of the people bitching are using pirated copies anyway.
I really dont give 2 squirts of pee either way, because there is no upside to using vista now, and a 8800GTX will run games better on XP anyway.
1. Tell MS or nvidia that
2. Tell Consumers they should NOT have the latest SW or HW :Q
3. They *could* but don't you think nvidia should at the very least provide a *beta*
driver?
Personally - for me - it doesn't matter one-way-or-the-other ...
it just annoys the crap outta me to hear fanboys defend a company's [acknowledged] *mistake* to the death.
nvidia simply screwed up by leaving a **disclaimer** OFF their 8800 box.
no company is perfect
and thanks for your opinion [again]
:thumbsup:
and now you have mine [again]
Just as we're tired of your never ending defense of anything and everything Nvidia related when they happen to screw up.
Flawed? I'm not the one who is redefining the definition of a consumer so that it fits my argument.
That's fine, but nVidia didn't differentiate whether a business owner or a "consumer" could buy THEIR product.
But you've just said Microsoft released the business version of Vista to business owners. That one has released. Business owners running business versions of Vista with a G80 "have the right to complain" as you've said so yourself.
Dodging? You were telling us to blame MS for nVidia not supplying support for Vista:
Let's not even discuss the Jan. 30th Vista launch, let's discuss the version of Vista that you and I can agree *has* launched. The one out of the two Vista launches your above example describes is only half of the picture.
The business version that *was* released is a released, legit, and purchasable version of Vista for a select few. The nVidia GeForce 8800 series that *was* released is a released, legit, and purchaseable version of GeForce graphics cards for *anyone*. The case I'm describing is when those "select few" of one product and "anyone" of another product overlap.
So now you're designating what business it has to be and whether or not that business can include "PC graphics"?
Can you point me to where Microsoft designated *what kind* of business the business owners had to run in order to be legit buyers? Link?
:roll:
Yes it does. If *everyone* nVidia was trying to sell their G80's to was running Vista business you can bet that they'd have a Vista driver by now.
So now you're saying nVidia didn't intend to sell these cards to business owners at all and only wanted to provide it "consumers"? That's a lot of information to get out of two words on the front of the box, or are you getting your information elsewhere? Link?
Where did nVidia select which market they were selling to? Or are you just riding on a logical fallacy?
Not according to your previous statement:
Obviously you thought there was *some* validity in their complaints. So, I'll ask again: If nVidia hasn't false advertised why do you think business owners have a right to complain about this issue?
No, you haven't. That's why I've had to ask the question again. If nVidia hasn't false advertised why do you think business owners have a right to complain about this issue?
Well at least we're getting somewhere...
And what about Vista can they not run Nelsieus?
:roll:
Keep thinking.
It's not my business to know, or even outline, what someone does on their computer nor what they intend to do with it. What someone does with their business version of Vista and a G80 *are* irrelevant since the reason(s) may or may not be valid enough for you. The point is that that combination was their *choice* and they have paid for it in full. They are entitled to the support they were told they would have.
I said more than just "This site is selling the Home Premuim edition" Nelsieus. You should finish the post I posted because then you would understand that I also said, "(Shipping Mid January)" which is before Jan. 30th." beggerking's confirmation that it wasn't shipping until launch date was what I was corrected about.
Meaning what? They'll sell just a key-code or they'll sell the disc? Or, both?
Desperately? 2 mins. worth of web browsing is hardly desperate.
Please, throwing the parenthesized insults in your posts hardly displays respect.
Imagine what you will, I couldn't care one bit whether the G80 is able to run Vista right now and if you don't own Vista or a G80 you shouldn't either. I simply know when a company claimed support and have yet to show it.
apoppin
Lifer
Don't forget, Josh ... on the nvidia's "vista ready" website they don't differentiate *business customers* from *regular consumers* ...
even the Quadros are "ready" and counted as *Desktop GPUs*
nvidia has a **disclaimer** on their site ... just not on the box ... which IS the *issue*
it bears reposting:
http://www.nvidia.com/page/technology_vista_home.html
EDIT: now expect, Larry, curley and moe to show up doing the *nvidia dance* ... not REPLYING to this post and trying to drop it to the bottom as quickly as possible hiding in under a mountain of unrelated FUD.
my prediction
even the Quadros are "ready" and counted as *Desktop GPUs*
nvidia has a **disclaimer** on their site ... just not on the box ... which IS the *issue*
it bears reposting:
http://www.nvidia.com/page/technology_vista_home.html
were their lawyers asleep? how could they forget to put this simple disclaimer on the box?
EDIT: now expect, Larry, curley and moe to show up doing the *nvidia dance* ... not REPLYING to this post and trying to drop it to the bottom as quickly as possible hiding in under a mountain of unrelated FUD.
my prediction
I'm done, this is pointless. :roll:
And I apologize for not giving what I imagine took you quite a while on that post a detailed response, but it's useless - all we're doing is repeating ourself.
Nelsieus
And I apologize for not giving what I imagine took you quite a while on that post a detailed response, but it's useless - all we're doing is repeating ourself.
Nelsieus
apoppin
Lifer
*nice dance* ... the 'skip' is your specialty ... just like Rollo who ran away crying like an unfairly wounded little boy . . . crying that he was the *victim* of a *witchhunt* every time HE got pinned down ... unfortunately he never stayed away ... he was always compelled to return and bust out more FUD and the *nvidia distraction dance*
btw, love your *outfit*
... especially the shoes. :heart:
we already know ... for you *facts* are useless
aloha
schneiderguy
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2006
- 10,801
- 91
- 91
Yeah, see I was reading that sentence right there... and it made me think about this guy who posts here. His name is apoppin. He was always COMPELLED to return and bust out more FUD and the *ATI DOMINATION DANCE*!!!!! :roll:
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: apoppin
more *distraction tactics* ... pointless to the thread except to inflame
at least NWN2 now works on most systems ... otoh, you cannot play it at all - or run anything useful - on *Any Vista* with a 8800
:thumbsdown:
my *problem* is there is no **disclaimer** on nvidia's boxes as there is - now - on their website.
evidently they - nvidia - *now* agree it needs a **disclaimer** ... even though you don't
Im not agreeing or disagreeing with anything.
If you really want my opinion on this matter:
1. Anyone buying a MS OS at launch is retarded.
2. Anyong dumb enough to buy a MS OS before launch for whatever reason (omgwtf aeroglass) deserves to have to wait until the official launch for a driver.
3. Anyone with a MSDN subscription has Win2k, WinXP, Win2K3, and others. They could easily install one of the other OS's in the (very short) meantime. Most of the people bitching are using pirated copies anyway.
I really dont give 2 squirts of pee either way, because there is no upside to using vista now, and a 8800GTX will run games better on XP anyway.
1. Tell MS or nvidia that
2. Tell Consumers they should NOT have the latest SW or HW :Q
3. They *could* but don't you think nvidia should at the very least provide a *beta*
driver?
Personally - for me - it doesn't matter one-way-or-the-other ...
it just annoys the crap outta me to hear fanboys defend a company's [acknowledged] *mistake* to the death.
nvidia simply screwed up by leaving a **disclaimer** OFF their 8800 box.
no company is perfect
and thanks for your opinion [again]
:thumbsup:
and now you have mine [again]
I totally agree and im not defending nvidia, i just hate the lame people bashing nvidia for something so trivial.
"Trivial" to you, doesnt mean it is to someone else. It doesnt matter to me either, because I dont have Vista, or a 8800 card. If I did have both, I would be upset as well.
I fully believe NV will have drivers available the 30th, and working. To me its not a big issue unless they fail to meet that goal. However, as I said, if I had Vista an a 8800 card, I would be upset as well. I dont, so Im not.
I fully believe NV will have drivers available the 30th, and working. To me its not a big issue unless they fail to meet that goal. However, as I said, if I had Vista an a 8800 card, I would be upset as well. I dont, so Im not.
For once i agree with you ackmed, I dont run OS's on their public release, let alone beta or pre-release versions. Although my immediate need for a new OS may make jump right over XP and go to Vista (currently running 2000 and having compatibility issues with the Neverwinter Nights 2 Builders Toolset).
Kind of OT, but does anyone know if there are 64 bit versions of the OS available at launch?
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: apoppin
more *distraction tactics* ... pointless to the thread except to inflame
at least NWN2 now works on most systems ... otoh, you cannot play it at all - or run anything useful - on *Any Vista* with a 8800
:thumbsdown:
my *problem* is there is no **disclaimer** on nvidia's boxes as there is - now - on their website.
evidently they - nvidia - *now* agree it needs a **disclaimer** ... even though you don't
Im not agreeing or disagreeing with anything.
If you really want my opinion on this matter:
1. Anyone buying a MS OS at launch is retarded.
2. Anyong dumb enough to buy a MS OS before launch for whatever reason (omgwtf aeroglass) deserves to have to wait until the official launch for a driver.
3. Anyone with a MSDN subscription has Win2k, WinXP, Win2K3, and others. They could easily install one of the other OS's in the (very short) meantime. Most of the people bitching are using pirated copies anyway.
I really dont give 2 squirts of pee either way, because there is no upside to using vista now, and a 8800GTX will run games better on XP anyway.
1. Tell MS or nvidia that
2. Tell Consumers they should NOT have the latest SW or HW :Q
3. They *could* but don't you think nvidia should at the very least provide a *beta*
driver?
Personally - for me - it doesn't matter one-way-or-the-other ...
it just annoys the crap outta me to hear fanboys defend a company's [acknowledged] *mistake* to the death.
nvidia simply screwed up by leaving a **disclaimer** OFF their 8800 box.
no company is perfect
and thanks for your opinion [again]
:thumbsup:
and now you have mine [again]
I totally agree and im not defending nvidia, i just hate the lame people bashing nvidia for something so trivial.
you need to understand
i am *not bashing nvidia*
:Q
otoh
i am *bashing their lame fans* for irrationally & illogically defending nvidia over this issue --even nvidia tacitly acknowledges it by their website **disclaimer**
-----------
the 8800 is an awesome piece of brand new HW ... Vista is a difficult and new OS to write code for ... it IS reasonable to expect a mature driver with the *official* release of Vista
otoh
nvidia's marketing dept or their lawyers *failed* to put the damn **disclaimer** on the box possibly inconveniencing some people who bought 8800 thinking it was actually "vista ready" .
and ... welcoming OT
i think vista ships with both the 32 and 64bit versions on the same dvd
... 'joe' never showed up ...
... yet ...
look for a last word
[nvidia rules]
Originally posted by: apoppin
you need to understand
i am *not bashing nvidia*
:Q
otoh
i am *bashing their lame fans* for irrationally & illogically defending nvidia over this issue --even nvidia tacitly acknowledges it by their website **disclaimer**
-----------
the 8800 is an awesome piece of brand new HW ... Vista is a difficult and new OS to write code for ... it IS reasonable to expect a mature driver with the *official* release of Vista
otoh
nvidia's marketing dept or their lawyers *failed* to put the damn **disclaimer** on the box possibly inconveniencing some people who bought 8800 thinking it was actually "vista ready" .
and ... welcoming OT
i think vista ships with both the 32 and 64bit versions on the same dvd
So do you select during the installation or something?
I have absolutely zero experience with vista.
apoppin
Lifer
not sure ... i only am playing with RC2 d/l
it's just what i 'gathered' from SW forum
i decided not to order the 5 business licenses
:Q
or 8800
it's just what i 'gathered' from SW forum
i decided not to order the 5 business licenses
:Q
or 8800
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