I need a new Antec Power Supply...

[Markfw]

BTW, I have an Antec True power 550 EPS on my Tyan 2885 board. (it is NOT the true power 2 though) And after over a year, no problems at all.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ribbon13
Even if you make valid points Jedi, you need to learn how to present them in a more readable fashion. And I think most people who have been in the computer business as long as I have would put Seasonic, Zippy/Emacs, and PC Power & Cooling in the same league. Seasonic's primary market is countries with very expensive electricity, which is why they are so good at making efficient (80Plus) PSUs, Zippy is very much a bastion of the world wide server market, and PC Power & Cooling is what the military, mission-critical servers and life-support computers use.

What does making valid points have to do with readability....
if you want I could post my replies in Polish....or Czech or even Russian if that would make them more readable - considering english is my 4th language.
I am 100% fluent at the other 3!

I think 3 out of 4 is not so bad!

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: John
Smartpower 2.0 500w @ $70

$50 at CUSA on BF

 

[Googer]

Ribbon, when you quoted me you omited some importatnt points. Especially where I said that I misread part of the specifications and did not see the negative symbol. I do not think you understand my point. The Seasonic is a $50 selling for $99. For that kind of money you can do better. I only recomendd the Sparkle/Fortron PSU becasue it reprented the best value for the guy asking about it on the opening thread.

According to <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http:// There is no such thing as true seperate rails!!
Dual rails are a myth!!
Dual rails are NOT needed to run anything including the top of the line components for todays systems!
Even "seperate" rails use the same suorce and are in laymans terms branched off from the main rail.....
">Antec</a>, Doug Dobson (CPU Magazene Interview) Founder of President of PC Power and Cooling, and countless other sources in industry all call them Rails (laymens term) and say that there are individual and shared rail PSU's.

 

[rise]

i run my two rigs on these as well as my bro's and a couple friends. they're great psu's, especially as you can usually find them in the 80-90 range delivered. check buy.com with a 10% off and you won't be disappointed.

here ya go

 

[orangat]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: orangat

Originally posted by: Googer
.........

NO it is not if you look at the post above this one, PC Power and Cooling Pays for it's self iif you are an Antec user.

Also Ribbon and I discussed this PSU earlier in the Week. The Specifications on that PSU are horible. The Seasonic he always recomends shares both the 5volt and 3.3volt on a common rail. This is something I would expect to see in a cheap $50-60 PSU or one you get in a Cheap $24 Case and PSU combo. For $100 I expect to have separate lines for 5.5 and 3.3Volt, there is no excuse for it. For $99 I would expect to see better. For $89 I could do better.

Since the total draw on 3.3v and 5v rails are so low, does combined rails even matter.

Do Antec power supplies have separate 3.3/5v rails or is it only for cetain models?

Thats fine, but for $99 expect better than that. For the $75 and higher price range I expect separate rails and maybe PFC with 3% or better voltage regulaton. That Seasonic has 5% regulation and shared rails. POS.

SO if you use too much amperes on 5v with a PSU like the seasonic then you leave zero 3.3 volt power for your motherboard. Great IDEA

How can that ever ever happen when the 3.3v/5v requirements for current PC so low in the first place?
SPCR measured the draw at an anemic 5V-3.5A and 3.3V-0.6A for a pentium dualie 820D under cpuburn. If a top of the line power hungry Intel PC takes so little from 3.3/5v rails, there cannot be any problems with combined rails.

And as others have mentioned PFC does not mean that the maximum rated output is drawn constantly.

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
What does making valid points have to do with readability....

I commend your aptitude in linguistics. However if your post is formatted terribly no one will read it and therefore no one will benefit from it. Which defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

Here, just for fun; Your post is redone minus you quoting yourself.

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Mik3y
PSP&P is awesome, but I would never, ever put my money towards it. They're too damn loud! Seasonic for me.

First of all I would ask if you own or have owned a PCP&C PSU? If not I would ask if you read that from SPCR?
If that's the case, I'd like to bring attention to the fact that SPCR also deemed the Zalman 9500 loud and that's just not the consensus from people who own it! They saying it's quiet!

Also in the last three or four months the good people at SPCR have introduced a superior fan controller! They have addressed that issue very well by the way!!

The bottom line is when I discussed the noise issue with PCP&C technicians they addressed the topic in a worthy manner. They stated all the fans for use in thier PSUs are tested for long-term reliability more than thier noise production. Contrary to popular belief, gamers and average PC users are not their bread and butter, rather the industrial segment of the computer industry is primary marketshare. Factories, hospitals and other industries that require dependability over noise factor! Yet the engineers at PCP&C have taken corrective measures to deal with the noise issue by popular demand!

Also I read the comment "You want to know why I always recommend Seasonic? Simple: I don't like seeing threads about PSU problems." That is the reason I don't use anything other than PCP&C PSUs!

Next we have this comment: "Thats fine, but for $99 expect better than that. For the $75 and higher price range I expect separate rails and maybe PFC with 3% or better voltage regulaton. That Seasonic has 5% regulation and shared rails. POS." Truly seperate rails don't exist unless a seperate AC/DC transformer is used for every voltage.

Dual rails are a myth! Dual rails aren't necessary to run even the most high-end personal computer. It's important to remember that even though there are two "independent" 12V lines, they still draw from the same main source. It's highly unlikely that there are two separate 120VAC:12VDC power conversion devices in a PSU; this would be much too costly and inefficient. There is only one 12VDC source, and the two lines draw from the same transformer. Each line is coming from the same 12VDC source, but through its own "controlled gateway".

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: Googer
Ribbon, when you quoted me you omited some importatnt points. Especially where I said that I misread part of the specifications and did not see the negative symbol. I do not think you understand my point. The Seasonic is a $50 selling for $99. For that kind of money you can do better. I only recomendd the Sparkle/Fortron PSU becasue it reprented the best value for the guy asking about it on the opening thread.

I didn't omit anything important. (Anyone who so desires can read the thread for themselves.) You just harped on the 3.3v/5v needing to be isolated rails to be a quality PSU, which is male bovine excrement. And the Seasonic would pay for itself over the FSP550 given time. $115 (S12-500) vs $117 (FSP550PLG-SLI)

Let's assume average of 7 hours per day on a midrange (130w) gaming computer in California for this.

(for my own reference)
1 kWh is equal to 3.6 MJ, or 3.6 x 10^6 J
1 W = 1 J/s

Once we calculate kilowatt hours used per day, it's trivial to work out the annual power consumption.

Ignoring peripherals->
Basis assumption1: Computer drawing 130W @ 68%eff (191W) / 7Hrs/day
Basis assumption2: Computer drawing 130W @ 84%eff (155W) / 7Hrs/day

watts * seconds * minutes * hours == joules
1. ( 191*60*60*7) = 4813200J
2. ( 155*60*60*7) = 3906000J

1 KWh is 3600000J
1. ( 4813200 / 3600000 ) = 1.337KWh
2. ( 3906000 / 3600000 ) = 1.085KWh

According to the EIA the average price per KWh in California is 12.93c

12.93 * 1.337 = 17.28741c per day / $63.10 per year
12.93 * 1.085 = 14.02905c per day / $51.21 per year.

With the Seasonic saving $11.89 per year, over its rated lifetime (MTFB 100k hrs) it will save him $135.73 over the FSP. Paid for itself.

Now, who was the one who "seems to know not enough but just enough"?

 

[maluckey]

So, when all is said and done, Zippy/Emacs (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling, FSP (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling as well), and of course PC Power and Cooling come out on top in the D*ck wagging contest.

It all boils down to this. If you do your own research and don't listen to to "seat of the pants testing" and Fanboys you will do fine in your PSU choice. False and deceptive advertising seem normal in this industry, and the only way to tell is to read between the lies (errrr lines?). A certain PSU manufacturer rates as Peak at 25C PSU temp, and another at sustained output at 40C. Guess which is better and more likely to not fail? Read, learn, buy.

I lost lots of money to a certain company's lies, now it's only server FSP units for me. They are inexpensive, and tough.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: maluckey
So, when all is said and done, Zippy/Emacs (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling, FSP (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling as well), and of course PC Power and Cooling come out on top in the D*ck wagging contest.

It all boils down to this. If you do your own research and don't listen to to "seat of the pants testing" and Fanboys you will do fine in your PSU choice. False and deceptive advertising seem normal in this industry, and the only way to tell is to read between the lies (errrr lines?). A certain PSU manufacturer rates as Peak at 25C PSU temp, and another at sustained output at 40C. Guess which is better and more likely to not fail? Read, learn, buy.

I lost lots of money to a certain company's lies, now it's only server FSP units for me. They are inexpensive, and tough.--thats the real issue ya don`t weant to pay for quality!!

So, when all is said and done, Zippy/Emacs (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling, FSP (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling as well), and of course PC Power and Cooling come out on top in the D*ck wagging contest.

There is absolutely no truth to those unsubstantiated statements!

Only PCP&C makes there own PSU`s!!
I don`t know where this BS comes from but again its just not true at all!
You can even go visit the plant where they make the PCP&C PSU`s.....

I`m sorry but this person has no clue what he is talking about...
I have a tech friend at PCP&C who works there and he will tell you that without a doubt any such statement is false and mis-leading!!

Bear in Mind the stats from a PCP&C PSU...nobody can touch them!!
End of story!!

The facts and reviews all point to PCP&C PSU`s being the best in the industry with a few close contenders such as OCZ....

I find it sad and pathetic that statements such as --So, when all is said and done, Zippy/Emacs (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling, FSP (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling as well), and of course PC Power and Cooling come out on top in the D*ck wagging contest

Its very obvious this person has not read any reviews about PCP&C products and has a unhealthy affinity for rumors and enuendos...especially when every review I have ever read states that PCP&C specs and standards and quality take a back seat to no one!!
I wish people like him would get a clue and not believe every rumor they read about or hear on the internet!!

have a nice day

 

[maluckey]

Until recently, ALL PC Power and cooling were manufactured by other companies, mainly FSP. Some of the the Silencer series is still an FSP design. Read, learn, buy.

FSP-300-60GT is resold by PC Power and Cooling as the Turbo Cool 300 and by California PC Products as their 300W power supplly.

PC Power and Cooling brand 400W Rev 2.01 ATX PS2 Power Supply is made by Zippy/Emacs

JEDIYoda

P.S., your ignorance and your A$$ is showing

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: maluckey
Until recently, ALL PC Power and cooling were manufactured by other companies, mainly FSP. Some of the the Silencer series is still an FSP design. Read, learn, buy.

FSP-300-60GT is resold by PC Power and Cooling as the Turbo Cool 300 and by California PC Products as their 300W power supplly.

PC Power and Cooling brand 400W Rev 2.01 ATX PS2 Power Supply is made by Zippy/Emacs

JEDIYoda

P.S., your ignorance and your A$$ is showing

Until recently, ALL PC Power and cooling were manufactured by other companies, mainly FSP. Some of the the Silencer series is still an FSP design. Read, learn, buy.

You are so very very misinformed....
PCP&C manufacturers there own products and always have been!!
I do understand that supposedly the early silencer series were manufactured supposedly by another company...but even that is conjecture...

a few links as well as reviews or articles to back up your bogus claims would suffice....

On April 19,1985, PC Power & Cooling began operations in a small warehouse just outside of San Diego, CA. Founded by Doug Dodson, a commodity trader and electronic hobbyist, the company's first products were custom fans to cool and quiet computers.

In 1986, the company introduced its Silencer 150 and Turbo-Cool 200, the industry's first ultra-quiet and high-performance power supplies. Other high-end products followed, the reviews were great, and the company continued to grow. In 1991, the company moved to a modern facility in Carlsbad, CA.

Over the last 20 years, PC Power & Cooling has produced many innovative products including: the first CPU cooler, the first PC heat alarm, the first independently-regulated PC power supply, the first redundant power system, the first nVidia-certified SLI supply, and the first One Kilowatt (continuous) computer power supply, the Turbo-Cool 1KW.

PC Power & Cooling takes pride in its loyal and knowledgeable customer base, its ultra-reliable product line, its professional and friendly staff, and its financial strength.

again your ignorance and misinformed opinion is showing through....
Its easy to make false and misleading statements......
so back them up if you can....
Of course we could always call my techie friend at PCP&C and ask him....he would laff at you.....

Your stoopidity is amusing to say the least!!

 

[Lyfer]

Fortron AX450 450W has dual 12V rails with 18A on each. Newegg price of $49.


/End.

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
You are so very very misinformed....
PCP&C manufacturers there own products and always have been!!
I do understand that supposedly the early silencer series were manufactured supposedly by another company...but even that is conjecture...

Actually this is sort of true. FSP and Zippy provide quite a few parts/PSUs to PC Power & Cooling, but PCP&C modifies them quite a bit, so they aren't the same anymore. This has actually beem documented here on AT. A disassembled PCP&C psu reveiled PCBs with the "FSP" insignia.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Again the parts used is not the issue!
many companies make different parts that are used by many manufacturers to make various products.
There is hardly a company out there that does not use parts that are made or branded by competitors to assemble there product in there warehouse and on there assembly line.
Yet maluckey`s insinuation that PCP&C does not make there own PSU`s or assemble there own PSU`s is a bunch of malarky!

In the electronics buisness just because a part happens to be made or come from a central warehouse that gets distributed to various companies as well as competitors doesn`t mean that a particular brand is NOT made by the company whose name is on the component!

The issue is and think about it you will agree I am sure.
If PCP&C was to be made by a different company and then branded as PCP&C who in tarnations then cant any body compete spec wise......and why does only 2 other companies offer a 5 yr warranty.....

Case in point...you have Sony...you have Panasonic...you have BenQ all make CD players as well as DVD players....
yet they all use the very exact same part that reads the CD or DVD......so would we say that those 3 companies are made by a different companie?
or would we say they use a various assortment of parts from different manufacturers?

You see how absurd it is to base maluckey`s reasoning on what I just stated??

Also if as maluckey`s states were to be assumed to be true....
Why then is PCP&C still considered by all reviewers as well as PC owners who use the product to be the best in Quality......Performance....Warranty.......etc.....

Also again...
a link or some sort of proof would be nice??

But I think i made my point!

 

[orangat]

Did Seasonic psu's relax their specs recently? I thought their psu's used to be rated for 1% load regulation not 5% like most other brands.

 

[nombrecinq]

I was thinking about getting the Seasonic SP-12 600w so that it's relatively future-proof. Does this mean I'm going to have a higher electricity bill or does it only use what it needs?

 

[maluckey]

JEDIYoda

First off don't miquote. You said PC Power and Cooling don't assemble their own PSU's, not me. I like PC Power and Cooling. Find a single thread where I have bashed them (other than the breathtaking price). You can't.

If a GM car under the Pontiac name uses the same Chassis and most all of the parts as a Chevrolet model, is the car a "new" model. We all know that it is not. Could it be better than the Chevrolet? Sure!

If the PC Power and Cooling PCB is made and designed by FSP, then the PSU is FSP. COuld PC Power and Colling improve on the design? Sure! If many of the Sony DVD R/W are made by LiteOn (many new models are), then it is a liteOn. You can even cross-flash many of the Sony models to be a LiteOn..

Some good quotes:

1.

There is absolutely no truth to those unsubstantiated statements!
Only PCP&C makes there own PSU`s!!

2.

I do understand that supposedly the early silencer series were manufactured supposedly by another company...but even that is conjecture

3.

There is hardly a company out there that does not use parts that are made or branded by competitors to assemble there product in there warehouse and on there assembly line

Retractions anyone???

In the list below (From DFI-Street) that there are two FSP, one PC Power and Cooling two OCZ and two Enermax, but NO Antec on this list. Not surprising.

For the Powr hungry, even the NF4 DFI Expert SLi owner:

PC P&C 510 ASL (nVidia SLI Certified)
Only the ASL model has the 8-pin (+12V) EPS connector REQUIRED for the Expert!
$239: http://www.pcpowercooling.com/produ...&view=techspecs

OCZ PowerStream 600W
http://www.ocztechnology.com/produc...am_power_supply
From $179: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?t...=Search+Froogle

Enermax 600W (New) Noisetaker 600W EG701AX-VE (W) (nVidia SLI Certified)
http://www.enermax.com.tw/english/p...setaker600w.htm
From: $139: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?t...=Search+Froogle

OCZ PowerStream 520W
http://www.ocztechnology.com/produc...am_power_supply
From $116: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?t...=Search+Froogle

Enermax 535W (New) FMA 535W (nVidia SLI Certified)
Only the current model has the 8-pin (+12V) EPS connector REQUIRED for the Expert!
http://www.enermax.com.tw/english/p...su_fma_535w.htm
$83: http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=PS...6c6f67876470201

Sparkle 550W (EPS) FSP550-60PLG
http://www.sparklepower.com/pdf/FSP550-60PLG.pdf
From $85: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?t...=Search+Froogle

Fortron 550W (EPS) FSP550-60PLN
http://www.home2000.net/client/fspg...?linenumber=126
http://www.fsp-group.com.tw/english...ctorname=EPS12V
From $79: http://froogle.google.com/froogle?t...=Search+Froogle

/Q]

 

[JEDIYoda]

Mis quote--where did I say PCP&C don`t assemble there own PSU`s??

You can`t..lets back track and see...

Your the one who said that PCP&C don`t make there own PSU`s---
So, when all is said and done, Zippy/Emacs (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling, FSP (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling as well), and of course PC Power and Cooling come out on top in the D*ck wagging contest.

Thats a direct quote from your post.....

The we have this little bit...Retractions anyone???

Obviously you have issues with the word---conjecture.....
also I asked for links to prove that PCP&C was assembled or made by another company...you failed to provide those links.....

yet you provided this link......with this statement that is also wrong...your just a load of misinformation...
P&C 510 ASL (nVidia SLI Certified)
Only the ASL model has the 8-pin (+12V) EPS connector REQUIRED for the Expert!
$239: http://www.pcpowercooling.com/produ...&view=techspecs
If you so choose there Turbo-Cool 850 SSI also has those connectors...

Yet with that said most peeps don`t run dual caerds and the ones that do wouldn`t be caught dead running anything less than 480w and up....

Also you fail to grasp that some companies also specialize in making various electrical components that are used industry wide which doesn`t necessarily make that company a good company what it says is that one product is a standard for the indusrtry just as almost all CD and dvd players use the same optical drive to read the cd.....

So what part did you not fully understand --There is absolutely no truth to those unsubstantiated statements! -- those statements being that other companies assemble PCP&C PSU`s??
proof and a link would make your accusation more credible....

What part of this statement did you not understand--
I do understand that supposedly the early silencer series were manufactured supposedly by another company...but even that is conjecture -- conjecture meaning there is no basis for fact...hypothtical......

Again what part did you not understand--
There is hardly a company out there that does not use parts that are made or branded by competitors to assemble there product in there warehouse and on there assembly line
PCP&C makes there own PSU`s!!

I even gave a viable and true to life example to help the kiddies understand.....

no links all talk....big waste of time....

 

[maluckey]

That's right, we agree, you didn't provide proof of anything, no links all talk....big waste of time

 

[JEDIYoda]

you were the one spouting misinformation.....

you were the one who it was incumbent upon to bck up what you were saying...

which you did bot do at all.....

I never made any statements such as you did...you jumped right into this thread spouting misinformation...or need you to be reminded...

If we go back to your first post.....

Avoid Antec. Not well recieved on Extremesytems.org, nor THG stress test. Their quality has suffered over the last year.

http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/200507111/stresstest-09.html

Even THG gailed the True Power (two of them), which is their better offerings.

It would be ok to use Toms hardware as a legitimate source but Tom`s rep has suffered so much in the last few years.....everything that comes out of that site is to be taken with a grain of salt or two...

Actually NO toms should be taken with a grain of salt simply becuase Tom`s is NOT impartial.....thats the bottom line!

Then we have your gross misinformed very ill conceived post that uses no links or states no facts that can be traced back to any links which makes them all pure conjecture ans myth.....

So, when all is said and done, Zippy/Emacs (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling, FSP (which makes some of the PC Power and Cooling as well), and of course PC Power and Cooling come out on top in the D*ck wagging contest.

It all boils down to this. If you do your own research and don't listen to to "seat of the pants testing" and Fanboys you will do fine in your PSU choice. False and deceptive advertising seem normal in this industry, and the only way to tell is to read between the lies (errrr lines?). A certain PSU manufacturer rates as Peak at 25C PSU temp, and another at sustained output at 40C. Guess which is better and more likely to not fail? Read, learn, buy.

I lost lots of money to a certain company's lies, now it's only server FSP units for me. They are inexpensive, and tough.

Actually thats a good summary of things....
Yet you clump all PSU manufacturers into this statement--

False and deceptive advertising seem normal in this industry, and the only way to tell is to read between the lies (errrr lines?).

Not really--there are a few companies that don`t need to engage in false or misleading advertisement....

Such as OCZ...Seasonic....Fortron...PCP&C....Zippy........

The problem as The founder of PCP&C pointed out........
many companies use different standards to test there PSU`s....

here`s an article that focuses on some of the issues...

CPU: One of your apparent pet peeves has to do with PSU temperature ratings. Why exactly?

CPU: Why fabricated?

CPU: But if this were such a big deal, shouldn?t it have been more publicized by now? Does it really matter in the real world?

CPU: So if we buy a 500W PSU with accurate thermal considerations, we?re good to go?

CPU: Should people focus on peak or continuous power ratings?

etc...with more questions being answered....

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/about/interview.php

Then again there this whole thread that turned out to be a very informative thread...


http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Anyways!! maybe we don`t disagree as much as it might seem...

 

[ofiraltarasy]

One:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103931

Two:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104982

Three:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104973

Take your pick or just look for one with dual 12v rail and good amps like 16 or higher

 

[KrillBee]

Originally posted by: PC_Freak
I'm looking at the Antec Truepower 2.0 550W power supply, but it may be too much for my needs.

It will be supporting an AMD 3500, 1) 6800GS, 2 dvd-rw's, 3 HD's and 1GB of memory.
I will be adding another 6800GS down the road and 1 more GB of memory also.

What recommendations would you make for a power supply?

Truepower 550 definately sounds like overkill, lol. I have a friend with a similar system, and he's sittin pretty with a smartpower 450, i was contemplating getting him a true power 380

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ofiraltarasy
One:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103931

Two:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104982

Three:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104973

Take your pick or just look for one with dual 12v rail and good amps like 16 or higher

Dual 12v rails are a myth...there is no such thing as true dual 12v rails!
All a dual rail rig has is a single 12v that is split into 2.....
You would be better off getting a single 12v rail that has at leasts 24amps...

Good Luck!!

 

[ribbon13]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Dual 12v rails are a myth...there is no such thing as true dual 12v rails!
All a dual rail rig has is a single 12v that is split into 2.....
You would be better off getting a single 12v rail that has at leasts 24amps...

Actually, this is untrue. They have a place and a time. Dual-railed PSUs appeared in the server market well before the consumer market. The 'seperate gates' allow the seperate CPUs to have rapidly changing load needs without disturbing the power to the other CPUs. It was the solution for real-world examples like this: on single rail PSU CPU0 goes from 0 to 100% usage at the exaxt same moment as CPU1 causing such a rapid current draw the PSU's rail voltage sags too much crashing both CPUs.