I live in a country that puts babies in cages

[cytg111]

Trump is going to have to walk this back... Damn I am looking forward to seeing how that works...

 

[Starbuck1975]

No need. Conservatives will either stop this policy or pay the price. It’s extremely unpopular which will likely lead to more liberals elected in the future. You can either pay now or pay later in higher taxes.

If you’re sane and a decent person option 1 is easiest but if you want to base your positions on anger and spite we will have to go the other way.

We are already paying the price. Trump is President largely in response to decades of poor immigration policy and kicking the can down the road. The GOP will pay a political price for Trump swinging the pendulum towards an inhumane and cruel extreme, but this debate is not unique to America. There is a growing tension between western societies and mass migrations.

 

[UNCjigga]

Read up.
https://www.investors.com/politics/...ants-trump-immigration-zero-tolerance-asylum/

"First, it's important to note that many of the "separations" don't last long at all.

As Rich Lowry explains in a detailed article in National Review, "when a migrant is prosecuted for illegal entry, he or she is taken into custody by the U.S. Marshals," in which case, as when other adults are incarcerated in the U.S., they are separated from their children.

Lowry notes that "The criminal proceedings are exceptionally short, assuming there is no aggravating factor such as a prior illegal entry or another crime. Migrants generally plead guilty, and then are sentenced to time served, typically all in the same day."

The Los Angeles Times reports that Rio Grande Valley border agents prosecuted 568 adults and separated 1,174 children since the administration announced its "zero tolerance" policy in early April. However, it only took a matter of hours to reunite more than a third of these children with their parents."

Put the emotion in check. The media likes to keep the susceptible in a state of outrage. We all have a choice whether to succumb to their evil behavior or not.

Again, Congress could change the laws regarding all this today. The only person I have seen, to my knowledge, who is attempting to do so is Ted Cruz.

If anything, I'd say the media is a little late to join the outrage party. Those on the front lines (legal aid counselors and lawyers court-assigned to represent the children) have been talking about the general conditions for unaccompanied minors for months, if not years. Yes, this was an issue under Obama as well. Yes, even today the vast majority of children held in detention are unaccompanied minors (8000+ I believe) vs. kids taken from their parents (2000+). Hell, Last Week Tonight did a focus on kids in immigration courts back on April 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fB0GBwJ2QA

What's different now is that Trump's zero-tolerance policy is making a bad situation worse, and the numbers show it. That's why new facilities are popping up overnight. That's why many more children are being held beyond the customary 72 hours, as I noted in the OP (one-third being reunited within hours means...2/3s not being reunited within hours, or reunited at all?)

From Media Matters: https://www.mediamatters.org/resear...nd-detention-children-us-mexico-border/220468
Myth: The Trump administration is diligently reuniting families after resolving their cases.
Fox & Friends weekend host Pete Hegseth described Trump’s border policy as “holding a child humanely, temporarily, and then reuniting them with their parent.” Official guidance for people arrested for illegal entry also says that “DHS and HHS can take steps to facilitate reunification with your child(ren).”

Fact: The Trump administration is not tracking separated family members, and parents are being deported without their children. A New Yorker article reported that within the Trump administration, “no protocols have been put in place for keeping track of parents and children concurrently, for keeping parents and children in contact with each other while they are separated, or for eventually reuniting them.” The article also stated “there is no formal process in place to insure that a family that’s been separated at the border gets deported back to their home country together.” There have been numerous media reports of parents deported without their children, who were taken from them by the Trump administration.

I think it's telling that the only evil you see in this situation is the media's fault.

 

[cytg111]

Just means his deportation happened about 15 years later than it should have.

What the hell is wrong with you? Have you been tested? Clinical psychopath?

 

[dainthomas]

Even Fox is "revolting" when it notices the nation slowly turning on Trump.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...utcry-over-separating-immigrant-families.html

"The president says he's not using the separation of children as leverage to get a better deal on immigration legislation. But the appearance is very different.

Such pressure tactics are common in legislative horse trading, but the family separations are now widely viewed as beyond the pale."

Hopefully if he sees the state run media and his normally-complicit "religious" backers turning on him he'll stop this quickly.

 

[fskimospy]

LOL, so your argument is that Trump should voluntarily return to status quo ante of catch and release because otherwise eventually liberals will get elected and raise taxes? Like they won't raise taxes regardless of what Trump does WRT zero tolerance policy? That's quite the threat you're posing - "stop doing that or in the future I'll do what I was already planning to do!"

No, you misunderstand me! Trump should go back to a less sadistic immigration policy because it seems like two things primarily affect who wins. 1) national circumstances (the economy, etc) and 2) how pissed off the opposition's voters are (why the opposition usually wins midterms). This policy here doesn't seem to have much actual use to the country and it does a lot to piss off the people who will vote against Trump. The more of them we get, the more likely future tax increases are. Also, the more likely it is that Trump gets run out of office.

So like I said make your choice but in the end we'll get what you owe.

 

[glenn1]

What the hell is wrong with you? Have you been tested? Clinical psychopath?

Oh yes, I should rephrase that. Just means his deportation happened about 15 years later than it should have, God rest his soul and did at least the parents get prosecuted for bringing him illegally at 3 years old?

 

[fskimospy]

What the hell is wrong with you? Have you been tested? Clinical psychopath?

He's mostly just trolling and blowing off steam as far as I can tell. He's just an incredibly angry guy and he seems to get off on inventing lurid fantasies of how to punish his imagined enemies. The more you push back and make fun of him about it the angrier he gets and the more fanciful/sadistic his policy preferences become.

When he's calm and in control he's a smart and interesting guy. He is often neither of these.

 

[snoopy7548]

Trump is going to have to walk this back... Damn I am looking forward to seeing how that works...

"We're ending the zero tolerance policy that so many liberals and Dems forced us to end with their obstruction and their obstructionist ways with their witch hunt. The policy was working great, no separation, no family separation, all the kids were with their parents, even aunts and uncles, and I even saw some grandparents there too, all together, no one was separated. But now we have to be less safe at the borders because of the Dems who are holding this country hostage with their obstruction. Can't make this country great with those types of people coming in and making laws! So we end it, it's ended, no more obstruction and most importantly there is no collusion. There is no proof or evidence but we did it, went and ended it. Happy now?"

 

[dainthomas]

Oh yes, I should rephrase that. Just means his deportation happened about 15 years later than it should have, God rest his soul and did at least the parents get prosecuted for bringing him illegally at 3 years old?

"We're ending the zero tolerance policy that so many liberals and Dems forced us to end with their obstruction and their obstructionist ways with their witch hunt. The policy was working great, no separation, no family separation, all the kids were with their parents, even aunts and uncles, and I even saw some grandparents there too, all together, no one was separated. But now we have to be less safe at the borders because of the Dems who are holding this country hostage with their obstruction. Can't make this country great with those types of people coming in and making laws! So we end it, it's ended, no more obstruction and most importantly there is no collusion. There is no proof or evidence but we did it, went and ended it. Happy now?"

Don't forget "and I'd like to apologize if liberal snowflakes were offended by audio of screaming children and pictures of them in not-cages."

 

[IronWing]

He's mostly just trolling and blowing off steam as far as I can tell. He's just an incredibly angry guy and he seems to get off on inventing lurid fantasies of how to punish his imagined enemies. The more you push back and make fun of him about it the angrier he gets and the more fanciful/sadistic his policy preferences become.

When he's calm and in control he's a smart and interesting guy. He is often neither of these.

I just figured he views the current sadistic policies of the Trump administration as Randian thought put into practice.

 

[Noah Abrams]

No, you misunderstand me! Trump should go back to a less sadistic immigration policy because it seems like two things primarily affect who wins. 1) national circumstances (the economy, etc) and 2) how pissed off the opposition's voters are (why the opposition usually wins midterms). This policy here doesn't seem to have much actual use to the country and it does a lot to piss off the people who will vote against Trump.

They will do a face saving thing in the near future regarding this cruelty. The midterms are around five months away. With the level of depth, intelligence and attention span of an average American, this is probably too long a time for this issue to make an impact in the elections.

 

[fskimospy]

They will do a face saving thing in the near future regarding this cruelty. The midterms are around five months away. With the level of depth, intelligence and attention span of an average American, this is probably too long a time for this issue to make an impact in the elections.

While I agree events are more salient the closer they are to the election there’s definitely still negative value in this for Republicans as it serves to motivate Democrats and depress Republican turnout.

For example, regardless of what happens in November the fact that Republicans tried to take health care away from millions of people will hurt them despite it happening 18 months before the election. It will hurt them less than had they tried it 18 days before, but it still hurts them.

 

[fskimospy]

I just figured he views the current sadistic policies of the Trump administration as Randian thought put into practice.

I never got the sense of him as an Ayn Rand guy, more of an Archie Bunker, haha. I bet if you take the anger out of it he’s still conservative but not extremely so.

 

[blackangst1]

Serious question: Why is everyone so angry for Trump enforcing laws he never passed...no exec orders were written...that existed before he was elected...instead of those that wrote and passed those laws?

 

[SMOGZINN]

Serious question: Why is everyone so angry for Trump enforcing laws he never passed...no exec orders were written...that existed before he was elected...instead of those that wrote and passed those laws?

Strange how no other administration did this. As you said nothing much has changed, only this administrations policy. I wonder who we should blame for this administrations policy?

 

[IronWing]

Serious question: Why is everyone so angry for Trump enforcing laws he never passed...no exec orders were written...that existed before he was elected...instead of those that wrote and passed those laws?

The law does not require this policy. Trump and Sessions are simply lying when they claim otherwise.

 

[fskimospy]

Serious question: Why is everyone so angry for Trump enforcing laws he never passed...no exec orders were written...that existed before he was elected...instead of those that wrote and passed those laws?

Serious answer: because absolutely nothing in them requires him and his administration to take this action. When confronted with this fact he has repeatedly lied to the country about it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...border/?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.b658e0410d9b

The president and top administration officials say U.S. laws or court rulings are forcing them to separate families that are caught trying to cross the southern border.

These claims are false. Immigrant families are being separated primarily because the Trump administration in April began to prosecute as many border-crossing offenses as possible. This “zero-tolerance policy” applies to all adults, regardless of whether they cross alone or with their children.

The Justice Department can’t prosecute children along with their parents, so the natural result of the zero-tolerance policy has been a sharp rise in family separations. Nearly 2,000 immigrant children were separated from parents during six weeks in April and May, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

The Trump administration implemented this policy by choice and could end it by choice.

I think we can all agree that’s a good reason to be angry at him? Right wing media seems to be trying to run with his lies but that’s no excuse, it just makes them complicit as well.

 

[blackangst1]

OK. Just asking. So although the actions are within the law, and no other administration has done this, its not good. Seems those who wrote the laws (Congress) wouldve thought of this and explicitly closed this gap.

 

[Noah Abrams]

What the hell is wrong with you? Have you been tested? Clinical psychopath?

Quite apart from this discussion or the poster(s) in question, the thing with psychopaths is that almost none of them ever get "tested". The very nature of psychopathy makes a person completely unaware about themselves. And there aren't real accurate tests to determine it anyway.

 

[Commodus]

OK. Just asking. So although the actions are within the law, and no other administration has done this, its not good. Seems those who wrote the laws (Congress) wouldve thought of this and explicitly closed this gap.

You'd think so, but with Republicans in control of Congress for a large chunk of those past 15 years, attention to basic human dignity for would-be immigrants wasn't a priority.

 

[IronWing]

OK. Just asking. So although the actions are within the law, and no other administration has done this, its not good. Seems those who wrote the laws (Congress) wouldve thought of this and explicitly closed this gap.

Unfortunately, Congress did not anticipate that Americans would elect a raging asshole like Trump to the Presidency and so did not provide adequate safeguards against abuse.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Just means his deportation happened about 15 years later than it should have.

Or he got to live longer by not.

Even Mooch is reasonable as strange as that is.

 

[fskimospy]

OK. Just asking. So although the actions are within the law, and no other administration has done this, its not good. Seems those who wrote the laws (Congress) wouldve thought of this and explicitly closed this gap.

Yes, from everything I’ve seen it is a legal exercise of power, just an evil one. In the past it’s proven really useful to give the executive pretty wide latitude in figuring out how to enforce the laws because it’s impossible to foresee all the circumstances that come up in the future. I think we’ve all run into some regulation where the end result was insane specifically because the legislature had written a law super specifically and allowed no room for interpretation. That sucks.

The issue now though is I think if anything the last year and a half show just how much of our system depends on those running the executive branch to not be corrupt and immoral or for Congress to intervene when they are. Sadly, our leaders are very obviously corrupt and immoral and Congress won’t intervene because they put party before country.

In all seriousness there’s only one way to make this sort of thing stop: elect Democrats and lots of them. Congress isn’t fulfilling its constitutional duties and there’s only one way to change that.

 

[jackstar7]

On the plus side, it sure looks like when some of us called out Trump for calling immigrants animals, and we said it was dehumanizing and would lead to worse situations we were WAY off.

Thanks for setting us straight, outrage police.

And it looks like we were right after all.

Now they "infest". This president needs to be impeached just on the grounds that he's a fucking idiot.