I have to pay for a car dealerships mistake?

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: Vic
The base CO can do nothing, as the dealership has not done anything wrong or illegal. I invite the OP to take the dealership to court, he will lose.

This thread is ridiculous. I bet everyone who thinks the dealership is in the wrong also believes that there is a law that you can return a car within 72 hours after buying it.

Pay your taxes.

I never said the base CO could do anything, only to remind the dealership he can. Veiled threat, you see.

Technically, it is within the CO's power to restrict base personnel from frequenting businesses that take advantage of military personnel. No (sane) CO would place that restriction on a business without clear cut gross violations. That said, you could bank on the business in question not knowing that.

I am not in favor of stiffing the state it's due sales tax. That said, I believe with a signed contact in hand, the dealership should be responsible for the miscalculation, not the buyer.

The worst that could happen in small claims is the guy is out $150 + filing fee (OH's is $35). If he wins, he pays nothing and the dealership pays filing fee (Again, that's how it works in OH).

 

[fredtam]

I haven't really looked to see where this is but if there is a military base nearby I can assure you they do indeed know how things work.

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: fredtam
I haven't really looked to see where this is but if there is a military base nearby I can assure you they do indeed know how things work.

$5 says if you talked to the businesses within 20mi of a base, over half would tell you there were not aware the base's CO could post armed MPs outside their business.

Of course, they would be after you called them.

 

[Andrew111]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Since the disputed amount is only $150, couldn't this be argued in your state's small claims court? Or would the fact that the total amount is around $15000 prevent filing in small claims court?

EDIT: Also be sure to remind said dealership that your base CO can declare his business an 'Off-limits' for base personnel, which means posting MPs outside his business to ensure that no military personnel enter. Very, very bad for business.

The base CO can do nothing, as the dealership has not done anything wrong or illegal.

They calculated the taxes wrong...so they did do SOMETHING wrong Even if I am obligated to pay....they should have bit the bullet and paid for the error since it was totally their fault. I'm supposed to be a tax expert to buy a car?:laugh: How many people buying a car know the sales tax % differs depending on the weight of the car/truck? I didn't. Perhaps I should request that they weigh my truck in my presence so I know they ain't BS'n me....maybe they'll forget about it to avoid the hassle.

I'm in DC by the way for the people who wanted to know.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: fredtam
I haven't really looked to see where this is but if there is a military base nearby I can assure you they do indeed know how things work.

$5 says if you talked to the businesses within 20mi of a base, over half would tell you there were not aware the base's CO could post armed MPs outside their business.

Of course, they would be after you called them.

Sorry you will never see any armed MPs outside of a business. How long would they stay? I have been to plenty of businesses that are black listed and have yet to see an MP. The power of MPs outside of a base is very limited.

Have you ever been in the military?

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: fredtam
I haven't really looked to see where this is but if there is a military base nearby I can assure you they do indeed know how things work.

$5 says if you talked to the businesses within 20mi of a base, over half would tell you there were not aware the base's CO could post armed MPs outside their business.

Of course, they would be after you called them.

Sorry you will never see any armed MPs outside of a business. How long would they stay? I have been to plenty of businesses that are black listed and have yet to see an MP. The power of MPs outside of a base is very limited.

Have you ever been in the military?

CO's discretion. Like I said, this would be a very rare event, but it's within the CO's power.

"As a general policy, these establishments will not be visited
by Service law enforcement personnel unless specifically determined
by the installation commander that visits or surveillance are
warranted." Direct quote from page 6, 2-6.b

EDIT: I'm from a long-time military family, but I myself am a college student.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: TerryMathews

Originally posted by: fredtam
I haven't really looked to see where this is but if there is a military base nearby I can assure you they do indeed know how things work.

$5 says if you talked to the businesses within 20mi of a base, over half would tell you there were not aware the base's CO could post armed MPs outside their business.

Of course, they would be after you called them.

Sorry you will never see any armed MPs outside of a business. How long would they stay? I have been to plenty of businesses that are black listed and have yet to see an MP. The power of MPs outside of a base is very limited.

Have you ever been in the military?

CO's discretion. Like I said, this would be a very rare event, but it's within the CO's power.

"As a general policy, these establishments will not be visited
by Service law enforcement personnel unless specifically determined
by the installation commander that visits or surveillance are
warranted." Direct quote from page 6, 2-6.b

EDIT: I'm from a long-time military family, but I myself am a college student.

"Visited" not posting armed guards. Your veiled threat would simply be laughed at by people who own businesses around a military base.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Andrew111
They calculated the taxes wrong...so they did do SOMETHING wrong Even if I am obligated to pay....they should have bit the bullet and paid for the error since it was totally their fault. I'm supposed to be a tax expert to buy a car?:laugh: How many people buying a car know the sales tax % differs depending on the weight of the car/truck? I didn't. Perhaps I should request that they weigh my truck in my presence so I know they ain't BS'n me....maybe they'll forget about it to avoid the hassle.

I'm in DC by the way for the people who wanted to know.

I sincerely doubt that the dealership miscalculated the taxes with intent or is attempting to defraud you now. Why don't you call the DMV or Dept of Revenue responsible with VIN in hand and confirm the issue with them?
As far as the law goes, it is the taxpayers responsibility to know the tax codes, and ignorance of the law is never an excuse for breaking the law. Sorry to say. If I miscalculate my federal income taxes, the IRS will still pin my ass to the wall despite the fact that the current tax code is some 40,000 pages long.

No need to weigh your truck, the GVWR is on the VIN plate in the drivers door jam. That is the weight they will use for tax purposes most likely. I have a feeling your truck's GVWR is over 6,000 lbs.

BTW, it is quite likely that you signed a form that said that you would work with the dealership in this type of event and cooperate with them. You should check your purchase documents.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Since the disputed amount is only $150, couldn't this be argued in your state's small claims court? Or would the fact that the total amount is around $15000 prevent filing in small claims court?

EDIT: Also be sure to remind said dealership that your base CO can declare his business an 'Off-limits' for base personnel, which means posting MPs outside his business to ensure that no military personnel enter. Very, very bad for business.

The base CO can do nothing, as the dealership has not done anything wrong or illegal. I invite the OP to take the dealership to court, he will lose.

This thread is ridiculous. I bet everyone who thinks the dealership is in the wrong also believes that there is a law that you can return a car within 72 hours after buying it.

Pay your taxes.

You are so wrong on this.

 

[thecrecarc]

god just let this drop!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Andrew111
They calculated the taxes wrong...so they did do SOMETHING wrong Even if I am obligated to pay....they should have bit the bullet and paid for the error since it was totally their fault. I'm supposed to be a tax expert to buy a car?:laugh: How many people buying a car know the sales tax % differs depending on the weight of the car/truck? I didn't. Perhaps I should request that they weigh my truck in my presence so I know they ain't BS'n me....maybe they'll forget about it to avoid the hassle.

I'm in DC by the way for the people who wanted to know.

I sincerely doubt that the dealership miscalculated the taxes with intent or is attempting to defraud you now. Why don't you call the DMV or Dept of Revenue responsible with VIN in hand and confirm the issue with them?
As far as the law goes, it is the taxpayers responsibility to know the tax codes, and ignorance of the law is never an excuse for breaking the law. Sorry to say. If I miscalculate my federal income taxes, the IRS will still pin my ass to the wall despite the fact that the current tax code is some 40,000 pages long.

No need to weigh your truck, the GVWR is on the VIN plate in the drivers door jam. That is the weight they will use for tax purposes most likely. I have a feeling your truck's GVWR is over 6,000 lbs.

BTW, it is quite likely that you signed a form that said that you would work with the dealership in this type of event and cooperate with them. You should check your purchase documents.

He's NOT breaking the law! It is the dealership's responsibility to pay the sales tax!!! Just because the dealership didn't collect enough money, in their opinion, to pay the tax it isn't the responsibility of the buyer to pay it.

Read my post on contracts. This is not a tax issue, it is a contract issue.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Since the disputed amount is only $150, couldn't this be argued in your state's small claims court? Or would the fact that the total amount is around $15000 prevent filing in small claims court?

EDIT: Also be sure to remind said dealership that your base CO can declare his business an 'Off-limits' for base personnel, which means posting MPs outside his business to ensure that no military personnel enter. Very, very bad for business.

The base CO can do nothing, as the dealership has not done anything wrong or illegal. I invite the OP to take the dealership to court, he will lose.

This thread is ridiculous. I bet everyone who thinks the dealership is in the wrong also believes that there is a law that you can return a car within 72 hours after buying it.

Pay your taxes.

You are so wrong on this.

How so?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
You are so wrong on this.

Well thank you for explaing in detail just where I am wrong. So you really to believe that I could sign for an STi on Friday evening, hit the track all weekend and race the sh!t out of it, and then return it to the dealership first thing Monday morning and the dealership is forced to take it back at no cost to me?

Hook me up! :evil:

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Since the disputed amount is only $150, couldn't this be argued in your state's small claims court? Or would the fact that the total amount is around $15000 prevent filing in small claims court?

EDIT: Also be sure to remind said dealership that your base CO can declare his business an 'Off-limits' for base personnel, which means posting MPs outside his business to ensure that no military personnel enter. Very, very bad for business.

The base CO can do nothing, as the dealership has not done anything wrong or illegal. I invite the OP to take the dealership to court, he will lose.

This thread is ridiculous. I bet everyone who thinks the dealership is in the wrong also believes that there is a law that you can return a car within 72 hours after buying it.

Pay your taxes.

You are so wrong on this.

How so?

In a good faith, two party transaction, (commonly knows as a 'contract') each party bears the responsibility of performing their portion of the agreement. If the dealer says "your tax, license and registration come out to X", and both parties agree, then that's the offical stated contract price. They can't come back later and say, "hey, we want another $150 out of you because of our error". It was their error and they get to bear the cost. If they end up not paying the tax or registration on the car you could sue them for 'failure to perform' under the terms of the agreement.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
You are so wrong on this.

Well thank you for explaing in detail just where I am wrong. So you really to believe that I could sign for an STi on Friday evening, hit the track all weekend and race the sh!t out of it, and then return it to the dealership first thing Monday morning and the dealership is forced to take it back at no cost to me?

Hook me up! :evil:

No. We are talking about mistakes on contracts. Not returning cars 72 hours later because of buyers remorse.

 

[3chordcharlie]

1. Ignorance is not a defence of anything. No you don't have to be a tax expert to buy a car, but you do have to pay the taxes on the transaction.

I've already given you the best defence I can think of against paying the remainder of the tax bill. You trusted them because you have good reason to assume they are experts in the field.

But you can't write a legal contract with illegal clauses! Therefore the original contract, though entered in good faith, is not sufficient as written. It has to be corrected, and the implication of a sellng price is that you agree to give that price to the seller. I'm quite confident that you would be told to pay the taxes if the matter were sent to a court.

I entirely understand why you're annoyed about this, but I don't believe you have a leg to stand on in terms of not paying.

As I said initially - give back the spare tire and maybe the weight will be low enough to drop the taxes to the originally calcualted amount

 

[rahvin]

For those of you experts, you should keep in mind that state laws on Sales tax vary quite a bit in wording and enforcement. Although in the majority of states sales tax is the responsiblity of the buyer, I'm not an expert enough to say that is true nationwide, but apparently the experts in this forum are.

 

[Bryophyte]

"I have to pay for a car dealerships mistake?"

You make it sound like you have to pay more than you rightfully owe because of a mistake the dealership made. You are not being asked to pay one dime extra. It's not like they calculated it too high, then refuse to refund you the difference.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Since the disputed amount is only $150, couldn't this be argued in your state's small claims court? Or would the fact that the total amount is around $15000 prevent filing in small claims court?

EDIT: Also be sure to remind said dealership that your base CO can declare his business an 'Off-limits' for base personnel, which means posting MPs outside his business to ensure that no military personnel enter. Very, very bad for business.

The base CO can do nothing, as the dealership has not done anything wrong or illegal. I invite the OP to take the dealership to court, he will lose.

This thread is ridiculous. I bet everyone who thinks the dealership is in the wrong also believes that there is a law that you can return a car within 72 hours after buying it.

Pay your taxes.

You are so wrong on this.

How so?

In a good faith, two party transaction, (commonly knows as a 'contract') each party bears the responsibility of performing their portion of the agreement. If the dealer says "your tax, license and registration come out to X", and both parties agree, then that's the offical stated contract price. They can't come back later and say, "hey, we want another $150 out of you because of our error". It was their error and they get to bear the cost. If they end up not paying the tax or registration on the car you could sue them for 'failure to perform' under the terms of the agreement.

Your response does nothing to answer my question. If he were to approach the CO (or any superior) he would be told to pay his fvcking taxes. Him reporting this will not get armed guards posted outside the dealership. Thety haven't done anything illegal and COs just don't go around making places off limits because some asshat thinks he got screwed.

To respond to your post I worked in F&I long enough to know you are 100% wrong.

The fact is it would more likely take the opposite direction where the dealer calls the CO.

 

[Andrew111]

Originally posted by: Vic
If he were to approach the CO (or any superior) he would be told to pay his fvcking taxes. Him reporting this will not get armed guards posted outside the dealership. Thety haven't done anything illegal and COs just don't go around making places off limits because some asshat thinks he got screwed.

To respond to your post I worked in F&I long enough to know you are 100% wrong.

The fact is it would more likely take the opposite direction where the dealer calls the CO.

A superior from JAG already told me I shouldn't have to pay I am only following orders then eh?:laugh:

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Since the disputed amount is only $150, couldn't this be argued in your state's small claims court? Or would the fact that the total amount is around $15000 prevent filing in small claims court?

EDIT: Also be sure to remind said dealership that your base CO can declare his business an 'Off-limits' for base personnel, which means posting MPs outside his business to ensure that no military personnel enter. Very, very bad for business.

The base CO can do nothing, as the dealership has not done anything wrong or illegal. I invite the OP to take the dealership to court, he will lose.

This thread is ridiculous. I bet everyone who thinks the dealership is in the wrong also believes that there is a law that you can return a car within 72 hours after buying it.

Pay your taxes.

You are so wrong on this.

How so?

In a good faith, two party transaction, (commonly knows as a 'contract') each party bears the responsibility of performing their portion of the agreement. If the dealer says "your tax, license and registration come out to X", and both parties agree, then that's the offical stated contract price. They can't come back later and say, "hey, we want another $150 out of you because of our error". It was their error and they get to bear the cost. If they end up not paying the tax or registration on the car you could sue them for 'failure to perform' under the terms of the agreement.

Your response does nothing to answer my question. If he were to approach the CO (or any superior) he would be told to pay his fvcking taxes. Him reporting this will not get armed guards posted outside the dealership. Thety haven't done anything illegal and COs just don't go around making places off limits because some asshat thinks he got screwed.

To respond to your post I worked in F&I long enough to know you are 100% wrong.

The fact is it would more likely take the opposite direction where the dealer calls the CO.

It is not his responsibility to pay the taxes. It is the dealerships. He fullfilled his side of the deal by paying for the truck. The dealer needs to perform on his side of the deal by filing the paperwork and paying the taxes.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Andrew111
The base CO can do nothing, as the dealership has not done anything wrong or illegal.

They calculated the taxes wrong...so they did do SOMETHING wrong Even if I am obligated to pay....they should have bit the bullet and paid for the error since it was totally their fault. I'm supposed to be a tax expert to buy a car?:laugh: How many people buying a car know the sales tax % differs depending on the weight of the car/truck? I didn't. Perhaps I should request that they weigh my truck in my presence so I know they ain't BS'n me....maybe they'll forget about it to avoid the hassle.

I'm in DC by the way for the people who wanted to know.[/quote]

You can't claim ignorance as an excuse. You know your state charges sales tax and you didn't double check them amount, and now you are saying it's not your fault. Now you are saying you trusted them to make sure it was all right. It doesn't always work that way. If your state law says you must pay x% sales tax on all vehicles sales, then regardless of what their mistake was, you still owe it. For all you know, the state may have kicked this back to them stating that the vehicle weighs more than they claimed. I know you want to blame the dealership, but it's probably coming back from the state.

When I leased my car the dealership screwed up - do a search and look for the thread. Under contract law, I was right. If you read your contract, which I wouldn't mine reading if you'd fax it to me, there are clauses that allow mistakes like that to be corrected. Now there are some mistakes that can't be fixed, but obvious mistakes, they are allowed to fix.

You can whine and cry, try to take your car back, hire a lawyer, sue them or whatever, but in the end I'd bet that you'd end up owing them the money. And yes, when you enter a contract you're supposed to understand what you're signing. If you're not familiar with how the tax is calculated, then that is your fault for not asking or not researching it before you sign.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Andrew111

Originally posted by: Vic
If he were to approach the CO (or any superior) he would be told to pay his fvcking taxes. Him reporting this will not get armed guards posted outside the dealership. Thety haven't done anything illegal and COs just don't go around making places off limits because some asshat thinks he got screwed.

To respond to your post I worked in F&I long enough to know you are 100% wrong.

The fact is it would more likely take the opposite direction where the dealer calls the CO.

A superior from JAG already told me I shouldn't have to pay I am only following orders then eh?:laugh:

Heh. Normally I would get pissed if someone misquoted me like that, but that's pretty goddamned funny. :beer:

As for the JAG officer, I don't know. As rahvin wisely pointed out, it is impossible for someone to be a tax expert on tax codes everywhere, so I will leave this thread merely saying that where I live you would be 100% responsible for the deficient tax balance because the state of WA makes a ton of revenue from vehicle sales taxes (as I said 11%) and they are downright cutthroat about getting it.
Washington DC may be entirely different on the matter, but based on the dealership's attitude towards the issue (as you described), I question that. I also think that the issue may not be worth fighting.

In the meantime, congrats on your new truck and thank you for serving our country!

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: TerryMathews
Since the disputed amount is only $150, couldn't this be argued in your state's small claims court? Or would the fact that the total amount is around $15000 prevent filing in small claims court?

EDIT: Also be sure to remind said dealership that your base CO can declare his business an 'Off-limits' for base personnel, which means posting MPs outside his business to ensure that no military personnel enter. Very, very bad for business.

The base CO can do nothing, as the dealership has not done anything wrong or illegal. I invite the OP to take the dealership to court, he will lose.

This thread is ridiculous. I bet everyone who thinks the dealership is in the wrong also believes that there is a law that you can return a car within 72 hours after buying it.

Pay your taxes.

You are so wrong on this.

How so?

In a good faith, two party transaction, (commonly knows as a 'contract') each party bears the responsibility of performing their portion of the agreement. If the dealer says "your tax, license and registration come out to X", and both parties agree, then that's the offical stated contract price. They can't come back later and say, "hey, we want another $150 out of you because of our error". It was their error and they get to bear the cost. If they end up not paying the tax or registration on the car you could sue them for 'failure to perform' under the terms of the agreement.

Your response does nothing to answer my question. If he were to approach the CO (or any superior) he would be told to pay his fvcking taxes. Him reporting this will not get armed guards posted outside the dealership. Thety haven't done anything illegal and COs just don't go around making places off limits because some asshat thinks he got screwed.

To respond to your post I worked in F&I long enough to know you are 100% wrong.

The fact is it would more likely take the opposite direction where the dealer calls the CO.

It is not his responsibility to pay the taxes. It is the dealerships. He fullfilled his side of the deal by paying for the truck. The dealer needs to perform on his side of the deal by filing the paperwork and paying the taxes.

What?

According to the snippet of law posted, you are wrong. It says, "It is the intent of this Article that the tax be added to the sales price of tangible personal property and services when sold at retail and be borne and passed on to the customer, instead of being borne by the retailer.".

Doesen't that mean that it is your responsibility, not the retailers?

 

[Rufio]

what is the situation was reversed?

what if andrew paid $150 too much, and caught the error on the contract afterwards? let's say they accidentally calculated 9% instead of the correct 7% tax....

what would happen then?