I have to pay for a car dealerships mistake?

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Rufio
what is the situation was reversed?

what if andrew paid $150 too much, and caught the error on the contract afterwards? let's say they accidentally calculated 9% instead of the correct 7% tax....

what would happen then?

The dealership would be required to refund him the overage.

 

[Andrew111]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Andrew111

Originally posted by: Vic
If he were to approach the CO (or any superior) he would be told to pay his fvcking taxes. Him reporting this will not get armed guards posted outside the dealership. Thety haven't done anything illegal and COs just don't go around making places off limits because some asshat thinks he got screwed.

To respond to your post I worked in F&I long enough to know you are 100% wrong.

The fact is it would more likely take the opposite direction where the dealer calls the CO.

A superior from JAG already told me I shouldn't have to pay I am only following orders then eh?:laugh:

Heh. Normally I would get pissed if someone misquoted me like that, but that's pretty goddamned funny. :beer:

As for the JAG officer, I don't know. As rahvin wisely pointed out, it is impossible for someone to be a tax expert on tax codes everywhere, so I will leave this thread merely saying that where I live you would be 100% responsible for the deficient tax balance because the state of WA makes a ton of revenue from vehicle sales taxes (as I said 11%) and they are downright cutthroat about getting it.
Washington DC may be entirely different on the matter, but based on the dealership's attitude towards the issue (as you described), I question that. I also think that the issue may not be worth fighting.

In the meantime, congrats on your new truck and thank you for serving our country!

I thought you would like it Thanks for the info you provided. I only had an informal meeting with JAG and told them the situation. I'll probably bring down all my paperwork and see what they say then. It's not all about the money.....just thinking logically about the situation(tax laws aside), someone messes up, they should make it right....that's how I'm thinking about the situation.

 

[fredtam]

See 7 (Buyer's Order)
see F Contract)

The contract does not absolve you of any further amounts due at the time or in the future.

 

[Andrew111]

Originally posted by: fredtam
See 7 (Buyer's Order)
see F Contract)

The contract does not absolve you of any further amounts due at the time or in the future.

My purchase order doesn't state that...I read the whole back too. The only thing about tax:

The Purchaser further agrees that the price quoted in this order is for immediate delivery, but if the price of the vehicle or accessories or the tax imposed by authorities should be increased by the manufacturer or the government before the vehicle has been delivered to the Dealer, Purchaser shall have the option of either paying such increased price or cancelling this agreement.

It doesn't apply though so you can throw that out.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: Andrew111

Originally posted by: fredtam
See 7 (Buyer's Order)
see F Contract)

The contract does not absolve you of any further amounts due at the time or in the future.

My purchase order doesn't state that...I read the whole back too. The only thing about tax:

The Purchaser further agrees that the price quoted in this order is for immediate delivery, but if the price of the vehicle or accessories or the tax imposed by authorities should be increased by the manufacturer or the government before the vehicle has been delivered to the Dealer, Purchaser shall have the option of either paying such increased price or cancelling this agreement.

It doesn't apply though so you can throw that out.

It doesn't have to say it. That is one of the many GA contracts I have some say it and some don't but the fact is that contract is based on GA law. You are ultimately responsible for the taxes. Also I would think you signed something saying so.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
1. Ignorance is not a defence of anything. No you don't have to be a tax expert to buy a car, but you do have to pay the taxes on the transaction.

I've already given you the best defence I can think of against paying the remainder of the tax bill. You trusted them because you have good reason to assume they are experts in the field.

But you can't write a legal contract with illegal clauses! Therefore the original contract, though entered in good faith, is not sufficient as written. It has to be corrected, and the implication of a sellng price is that you agree to give that price to the seller. I'm quite confident that you would be told to pay the taxes if the matter were sent to a court.

I entirely understand why you're annoyed about this, but I don't believe you have a leg to stand on in terms of not paying.

As I said initially - give back the spare tire and maybe the weight will be low enough to drop the taxes to the originally calcualted amount

The contract is valid. The state law will be written in so that the dealer is required to pay the tax to the state. The law will include a clause stating that they can collect an amount equal to the tax from the purchaser. The dealership chose to collect an amount less then the full tax. The contract is valid. The only question is if the dealer implecitly waived the rest of the dedt for the sales tax by using the wrong value for sales tax in the contract.

 

[kranky]

Interesting. It does seem as though the buyer is liable for the payment of the tax, but on the other hand I found numerous stories where car dealers got arrested/sued for keeping sales taxes collected from buyers. None of them mentioned that the buyers were going to be asked to pony up the tax again, which is what I would expect if it is ultimately the buyer's job to get the tax money paid to the state.

But anyway, I would make sure I understood where they made their error, and if I felt I legitimately owed the tax I'd make arrangements to pay it directly to the state taxing authority. That way if they were just trying to get an extra $150 out of me, they would fail. And if they protested, I'd just say that they screwed it up once already, and I'd be more comfortable taking care of it myself this time.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: kranky
Interesting. It does seem as though the buyer is liable for the payment of the tax, but on the other hand I found numerous stories where car dealers got arrested/sued for keeping sales taxes collected from buyers. None of them mentioned that the buyers were going to be asked to pony up the tax again, which is what I would expect if it is ultimately the buyer's job to get the tax money paid to the state.

But anyway, I would make sure I understood where they made their error, and if I felt I legitimately owed the tax I'd make arrangements to pay it directly to the state taxing authority. That way if they were just trying to get an extra $150 out of me, they would fail. And if they protested, I'd just say that they screwed it up once already, and I'd be more comfortable taking care of it myself this time.

The reason the buyer's were not resonsible for the taxes it could be proven that the taxes were collected just not passed on to the state.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Ynog

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
You're responsible, not the dealer.

Technically even if the dealer collected no tax you would be responsible to calculate & submit the appropriate tax.

This includes online purchases made from vendors out of state too, if you purchase from someone who doesn't collect it YOU are responsible.

The real question becomes how many people actually do it?

If anything the dealership did you a favor by letting you know about the error.

Viper GTS

Actually I live in New England and NH is one of the few states that doesn't have a sales tax.
So you find some people in NE states buying and registering their car in NH while they actually
live in another state. But I know for a fact most of the states have hotlines for during people in
who do this, and will go after those people.

As long as they have a legal residence in that state, it's OK. Heck, you don't even have to have a legal residence in that state. My parents live in Ohio near the Ohio/Mchigan border. They rent a cottage on a lake in Michigan for 3-4 weeks every year and trailer our boat to and from the cottage. The majority of the time the trailer is on a road, it's on a Michigan road. So the trailer's license plate is a Michigan plate even though we have no legal residence in Michigan and the plate and registration are sent to Ohio. The boat itself is registered in Michigan too. All 100% legal since that's where the boat spends the majority of its time.

ZV

 

[DrPizza]

I've read enough... I'm not going to bother reading the rest... When it comes down to it, "the salesperson and I negotiated for a final price. I knew exactly what I wanted to pay including tax. Apparently, he calculated the selling price incorrectly based on the final price. "

Personally, I'm always more concerned with the bottom line, rather than selling price.... tax here is 8.25%. Of course, the saleperson wants to quote prices without tax, because those are significantly less. My comment would be "if you can get us into it for 15k, including tax, I'll take it. Not a penny more."

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: kranky
Interesting. It does seem as though the buyer is liable for the payment of the tax, but on the other hand I found numerous stories where car dealers got arrested/sued for keeping sales taxes collected from buyers. None of them mentioned that the buyers were going to be asked to pony up the tax again, which is what I would expect if it is ultimately the buyer's job to get the tax money paid to the state.

But anyway, I would make sure I understood where they made their error, and if I felt I legitimately owed the tax I'd make arrangements to pay it directly to the state taxing authority. That way if they were just trying to get an extra $150 out of me, they would fail. And if they protested, I'd just say that they screwed it up once already, and I'd be more comfortable taking care of it myself this time.

The reason the buyer's were not resonsible for the taxes it could be proven that the taxes were collected just not passed on to the state.

The reason the buyers were not resonsible for the taxes is because the dealer is required to pay the tax. Even if the store didn't collect the tax they are still required to pay it. A purchaser has a dedt to the store not the state. Assuming where not talking about interstate purchases.

 

[DrPizza]

btw... I can't believe the car dealer wouldn't write that off, rather than pursuing it.. IMHO, they're taking a serious chance in risking repeat business as well as referral business.. Both worth far more than $150. And, they're full of it if they're claiming they didn't make a thing off that vehicle...

Waggy... ever sell vehicles at a loss? Or at 0 profit?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
btw... I can't believe the car dealer wouldn't write that off, rather than pursuing it.. IMHO, they're taking a serious chance in risking repeat business as well as referral business.. Both worth far more than $150. And, they're full of it if they're claiming they didn't make a thing off that vehicle...

Waggy... ever sell vehicles at a loss? Or at 0 profit?

yeap we have sold vehicles at a loss a few times.

there are times when you just need to get the car off the lot. OR you take in the car as a trade in at a higher price then it is worth (of course we make up for it in the sale).

edit: oh yeah. we buy a LOT of used car's from wholesalers. Sometimes a car has to have work done to it. All we can do is suck it up and pay it and do oure best to sale the car. even if it is for a loss.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: kranky
Interesting. It does seem as though the buyer is liable for the payment of the tax, but on the other hand I found numerous stories where car dealers got arrested/sued for keeping sales taxes collected from buyers. None of them mentioned that the buyers were going to be asked to pony up the tax again, which is what I would expect if it is ultimately the buyer's job to get the tax money paid to the state.

But anyway, I would make sure I understood where they made their error, and if I felt I legitimately owed the tax I'd make arrangements to pay it directly to the state taxing authority. That way if they were just trying to get an extra $150 out of me, they would fail. And if they protested, I'd just say that they screwed it up once already, and I'd be more comfortable taking care of it myself this time.

The reason the buyer's were not resonsible for the taxes it could be proven that the taxes were collected just not passed on to the state.

The reason the buyers were not resonsible for the taxes is because the dealer is required to pay the tax. Even if the store didn't collect the tax they are still required to pay it. A purchaser has a dedt to the store not the state. Assuming where not talking about interstate purchases.

The dealer is required to collect the taxes and pass them on to the state. Taxes are usually listed as "amount paid to others on your behalf". I think you are misunderstanding me. Yes the taxes must be paid by the dealer to the state. However the buyer is still ultimately responsible for paying the dealer.


560-12-1-.11 Collection of Tax.
Every dealer making sales of tangible personal property at retail in this State and every
dealer making sales of tangible personal property at retail outside this State for
distribution, storage, use or other consumption in this State shall add the amount of tax
imposed by the Act upon the purchaser to the sales price or charge, which shall then be a
debt from the purchaser or consumer to the dealer until paid, and shall be recoverable at
law in the same manner as any other debt.
Authority Ga. L. 1937-38, Extra Sess., p. 77, et seq., as amended; Ga. Code Ann., Secs. 92-8405, 8406,
8409, 8427; Ga. L. 1951, pp. 360, 385; Ga. Code Ann., Sec. 92-3438a. Administrative History. Original
Rule was filed and effective on June 30, 1965.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: Andrew111
My purchase order doesn't state that...I read the whole back too. The only thing about tax:

The Purchaser further agrees that the price quoted in this order is for immediate delivery, but if the price of the vehicle or accessories or the tax imposed by authorities should be increased by the manufacturer or the government before the vehicle has been delivered to the Dealer, Purchaser shall have the option of either paying such increased price or cancelling this agreement.

It doesn't apply though so you can throw that out.

I have ran my Own Retail business off and on for the past several years in 2 different states. If I ever forgot to collect the correct amount of tax I, yes I the business owner, not the customer was responsible for paying up the to state. Because, and no matter what your contract says or anyone else says, when tax time comes the tax man only looks at how much THE BUSINESS sold and then levies the tax on the business NOT you. I can't believe these people that say you are going to be contacted by your state and ordered to pay $150 in tax because the dealership goofed and didn't do their job right. What a F---ing load of BS! Even still if audited by the state their official records will show the dealership levied the wrong tax and they would still be liable. If you have a question about this call the local and state Tax Assessors office for further help and quit listening to these babbling "pay it or else" people who then admit they own or run a dealership of their own.... (Can anyone say conflict of interest, let alone I am not a Lawyer / Tax Advisor so I should STFU) :|

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: Andrew111
My purchase order doesn't state that...I read the whole back too. The only thing about tax:

The Purchaser further agrees that the price quoted in this order is for immediate delivery, but if the price of the vehicle or accessories or the tax imposed by authorities should be increased by the manufacturer or the government before the vehicle has been delivered to the Dealer, Purchaser shall have the option of either paying such increased price or cancelling this agreement.

It doesn't apply though so you can throw that out.

I have ran my Own Retail business off and on for the past several years in 2 different states. If I ever forgot to collect the correct amount of tax I, yes I the business owner, not the customer was responsible for paying up the to state. Because, and no matter what your contract says or anyone else says, when tax time comes the tax man only looks at how much THE BUSINESS sold and then levies the tax on the business NOT you. I can't believe these people that say you are going to be contacted by your state and ordered to pay $150 in tax because the dealership goofed and didn't do their job right. What a F---ing load of BS! Even still if audited by the state their official records will show the dealership levied the wrong tax and they would still be liable. If you have a question about this call the local and state Tax Assessors office for further help and quit listening to these babbling "pay it or else" people who then admit they own or run a dealership of their own.... (Can anyone say conflict of interest, let alone I am not a Lawyer / Tax Advisor so I should STFU) :|

This does not change the fact that it is a collectable debt to the dealership making the buyer ultimately responsible.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: gutharius<BR>

Originally posted by: Andrew111<BR>My purchase order doesn't state that...I read the whole back too. The only thing about tax:<BR><BR>The Purchaser further agrees that the price quoted in this order is for immediate delivery, but if the price of the vehicle or accessories or the tax imposed by authorities should be increased by the manufacturer or the government before the vehicle has been delivered to the Dealer, Purchaser shall have the option of either paying such increased price or cancelling this agreement.<BR><BR>It doesn't apply though so you can throw that out.

<BR><BR>I have ran my Own Retail business off and on for the past several years in 2 different states. If I ever forgot to collect the correct amount of tax I, yes I the business owner, not the customer was responsible for paying up the to state. Because, and no matter what your contract says or anyone else says, when tax time comes the tax man only looks at how much THE BUSINESS sold and then levies the tax on the business NOT you. I can't believe these people that say you are going to be contacted by your state and ordered to pay $150 in tax because the dealership goofed and didn't do their job right. What a F---ing load of BS! Even still if audited by the state their official records will show the dealership levied the wrong tax and they would still be liable. If you have a question about this call the local and state Tax Assessors office for further help and quit listening to these babbling "pay it or else" people who then admit they own or run a dealership of their own.... (Can anyone say conflict of interest, let alone I am not a Lawyer / Tax Advisor so I should STFU) :|

<BR><BR><BR>This does not change the fact that it is a collectable debt to the dealership making the buyer ultimately responsible.

No, you missed my point. The buyer/customer is not responsible for paying the tax to the government if that was the case why have the business collect the tax in the first place??? Nor is the consumer responsible for levying the tax upon themselves. The sales tax is the responsibility of the Business owner to collect and levy at a specified rate and then turn over to the government, failure to do so is the business's debt with the government not the consumer's debt. The customer has no responsibility other than not buying the item to avoid paying the tax assuming it is that big of a deal to the customer in the first place. The government will go after the business owner because it is their responsibility to levy the tax in the correct manner in the first place and kbecause it is the business owners debt with the government.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: gutharius<BR>

Originally posted by: Andrew111<BR>My purchase order doesn't state that...I read the whole back too. The only thing about tax:<BR><BR>The Purchaser further agrees that the price quoted in this order is for immediate delivery, but if the price of the vehicle or accessories or the tax imposed by authorities should be increased by the manufacturer or the government before the vehicle has been delivered to the Dealer, Purchaser shall have the option of either paying such increased price or cancelling this agreement.<BR><BR>It doesn't apply though so you can throw that out.

<BR><BR>I have ran my Own Retail business off and on for the past several years in 2 different states. If I ever forgot to collect the correct amount of tax I, yes I the business owner, not the customer was responsible for paying up the to state. Because, and no matter what your contract says or anyone else says, when tax time comes the tax man only looks at how much THE BUSINESS sold and then levies the tax on the business NOT you. I can't believe these people that say you are going to be contacted by your state and ordered to pay $150 in tax because the dealership goofed and didn't do their job right. What a F---ing load of BS! Even still if audited by the state their official records will show the dealership levied the wrong tax and they would still be liable. If you have a question about this call the local and state Tax Assessors office for further help and quit listening to these babbling "pay it or else" people who then admit they own or run a dealership of their own.... (Can anyone say conflict of interest, let alone I am not a Lawyer / Tax Advisor so I should STFU) :|

<BR><BR><BR>This does not change the fact that it is a collectable debt to the dealership making the buyer ultimately responsible.

No, you missed my point. The buyer/customer is not responsible for paying the tax to the government if that was the case why have the business collect the tax in the first place??? Nor is the consumer responsible for levying the tax upon themselves. The sales tax is the responsibility of the Business owner to collect and levy at a specified rate and then turn over to the government, failure to do so is the business's debt with the government not the consumer's debt. The customer has no responsibility other than not buying the item to avoid paying the tax assuming it is that big of a deal to the customer in the first place. The government will go after the business owner because it is their responsibility to levy the tax in the correct manner in the first place and kbecause it is the business owners debt with the government.

Wow, someone besides me who actually knows what the hell they're talking about. :beer:

 

[RagingBITCH]

Has the OP actually contacted a fricking lawyer and asked him, or is he still listening to the armchair jockeys b1tch at each other saying "you're wrong, I'm right".

 

[Andrew111]

Since the dealerships financial manager wouldn't give me specifics....they got a call from a JAG officer. They changed their tune and gave all the specifics.....when the truck was first titled they put down the weight as 8,000 pounds when it actually weighs around 3,500. The dealership charged my sales tax based on the correct weight but DC wants more tax since they are going by the weight used when the truck was first titled. The dealership was very accomodating after the call from JAG and wrote a letter telling them how they have the wrong weight for the truck.

 

[dirtboy]

And who was it that said it was the state that demanded more tax and it wasn't the dealership that screwed you? Oh yea... that was me.

 

[Andrew111]

Originally posted by: dirtboy
And who was it that said it was the state that demanded more tax and it wasn't the dealership that screwed you? Oh yea... that was me.

Where did you say that? I demand a quote

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: dirtboy
And who was it that said it was the state that demanded more tax and it wasn't the dealership that screwed you? Oh yea... that was me.

Yeah but the state was demanding it from the dealership. Not the OP.