I get conservative guys point about public assistance

[child of wonder]

Why do you keep assuming she WANTED her kids to have autism? She simply wanted an official diagnosis for what she suspected they already had.

You seem to be going out of your way to try to demonize the mother.

That helps no one.

She didn’t know, not yet, that later that month an autism specialist would tell her and Franny that the twins’ limitations weren’t that severe. They had ADHD and a disruptive mood disorder — but not autism. She didn’t know she would drive home venting the whole way. “I asked God to give us the right diagnoses,” she would say. “I don’t feel like I got the right diagnoses.”

She prayed to god that they had autism. No clearer indication than that. If a diagnosis of autism would not get the boys back on SSDI I don't think she would have been on her knees begging for it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Maybe because the kids already had multiple mental health diagnoses; she suspected autism as well, but without a firm diagnosis she couldn't get the additional funds to properly care for them?

Why do you keep assuming she WANTED her kids to have autism? She simply wanted an official diagnosis for what she suspected they already had.

You seem to be going out of your way to try to demonize the mother.

That helps no one.

Yes I am making that assumption and I agree it's wrong.
She was using the extra funds for furniture payments, telecom payments and it appears pay day loan debt servicing.
Above is part of my point at what point does assistance become enablement or more simply put is the assistance doing more harm than good. Look at the stomache medication and over eating hot sauce is it healthy to prescribe stomach medication to allow over eating on something that causes stomach irritation? Would it be more kind to say no more stomach meds fix it thru eating better?

 

[bshole]

Yes I am making that assumption and I agree it's wrong.
She was using the extra funds for furniture payments, telecom payments and it appears pay day loan debt servicing.
Above is part of my point at what point does assistance become enablement or more simply put is the assistance doing more harm than good. Look at the stomache medication and over eating hot sauce is it healthy to prescribe stomach medication to allow over eating on something that causes stomach irritation? Would it be more kind to say no more stomach meds fix it thru eating better?

Are you talking about corporate welfare here? Where the banking industry privatizes profit and socializes loss? How many 100s of billions went into that?

You do understand that the jobs are not out there don't you? There are of course lots of jobs that are well below the poverty level. Each year that goes by increases the percentage of jobs that are below the poverty level. If you really really give a shit, you should support a graduated income tax which does not give the wealthy a pass on capital gains and a greatly increased inheritance tax on the wealthy.

 

[kinev]

All I see from the "conservative" side is the same old disease of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing. And even then...not even the price of everything, just the immediate, short term price!

Even if you have a stock ticker where your soul should be, it very simply costs less to help people maintain normal lifestyles than it does to deal with them in the prison system later. Even if you're so completely inhuman, so utterly sociopathic, that you don't care about whatever kind of torture these people go through, the simple fact that prevention is cheaper than half-assed not-really-cure should make some inroad into your thinking.

If it still doesn't, then hiding behind "butbutbut MUH MUNNIEZ" is a smokescreen to cover something much darker: that you want these people to suffer, and you will happily spend more of "muh munniez" to see that happen.

The false dichotomy of welfare abuse OR prison aside, it's really easy to pretend to be so magnanimous when you advocate for spending everyone else's money. Everyone has a stock-ticker, it's just hypocrites like you that fail to recognize it. Everyone places a limit on the amount of charity that they are PERSONALLY willing to give to others. Say you work at a non-profit helping the poor, if you don't have a stock ticker, then why don't you volunteer to have your salary cut in half? Think of all the poor the other half of your meager salary could help! In fact, say you live in a 1BR apartment, you have a couch, right? Some poor people don't even have that! Think of all of the homeless you could fit in your apartment! Unless you have a stock ticker, you should open your house to everyone, right? You are eating beans & rice and wilting veggies for every meal, right? If not, could it be that your stock ticker decided that that was too far to go to help the poor? You don't want them to suffer, right? YOU, compared to all of us greedy people, know the value of the poor, right?

Fact is, no matter how much you help others, you could be doing more. Almost everyone can. But, you don't. It's easier to feign generosity on someone else's dime than acknowledge that you secretly enjoy your creature comforts just as much as the next person. That computer/phone you typed that heap of sanctimonious garbage on...how many meals would that buy for the poor? Those clothes you're wearing? That roof over your head? Your transportation, your entertainment...don't tell me that you have Netflix when there are still starving people out there. Oh, that's right, YOU, just like those you so desperately want to look down on, are concerned with "muh munniez". Everyone has a cut off point to their charity. You just pretend not to in order to have a smug sense of self-importance; it's your identity. You could be doing more, but you selfishly don't; all the while mocking those who feel exactly the same as you do. A lot easier than giving up what's yours...eh, ticker?

 

[UglyCasanova]

Agreed. It's easy to say government spend more when it's other people's money. I'm all for welfare, it's a needed thing, but I'm not for unlimited or unchecked spending. It should be a safety net when you fall, not a career option. And when you hit that safety net you shouldn't expect a comfy middle class lifestyle, not because of cruelty and punishment but because you hit the net and you should have incentive to bounce back (or stand up for the first time).

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

The false dichotomy of welfare abuse OR prison aside, it's really easy to pretend to be so magnanimous when you advocate for spending everyone else's money. Everyone has a stock-ticker, it's just hypocrites like you that fail to recognize it. Everyone places a limit on the amount of charity that they are PERSONALLY willing to give to others. Say you work at a non-profit helping the poor, if you don't have a stock ticker, then why don't you volunteer to have your salary cut in half? Think of all the poor the other half of your meager salary could help! In fact, say you live in a 1BR apartment, you have a couch, right? Some poor people don't even have that! Think of all of the homeless you could fit in your apartment! Unless you have a stock ticker, you should open your house to everyone, right? You are eating beans & rice and wilting veggies for every meal, right? If not, could it be that your stock ticker decided that that was too far to go to help the poor? You don't want them to suffer, right? YOU, compared to all of us greedy people, know the value of the poor, right?

Fact is, no matter how much you help others, you could be doing more. Almost everyone can. But, you don't. It's easier to feign generosity on someone else's dime than acknowledge that you secretly enjoy your creature comforts just as much as the next person. That computer/phone you typed that heap of sanctimonious garbage on...how many meals would that buy for the poor? Those clothes you're wearing? That roof over your head? Your transportation, your entertainment...don't tell me that you have Netflix when there are still starving people out there. Oh, that's right, YOU, just like those you so desperately want to look down on, are concerned with "muh munniez". Everyone has a cut off point to their charity. You just pretend not to in order to have a smug sense of self-importance; it's your identity. You could be doing more, but you selfishly don't; all the while mocking those who feel exactly the same as you do. A lot easier than giving up what's yours...eh, ticker?

I'm within spitting distance of the federal poverty line and still give about a third of my after tax income to a human trafficking survivor friend of mine. Nice try, asshole, but you've just run into one of the few people who can actually make this argument and not be a total hypocrite. I suspect I survive on something like $8,500-$9,000 a year when all is said and done. Never ran the exact numbers, but that's a fair estimate given my expenses.

I know, I know, you've ever run into anyone else who can say this. Sorry to burst your sanctimonious bubble. This computer, by the way, is scrap from work; I got permission to take it.

 

[UglyCasanova]

If true that's extremely noble of you and you definitely have my respect for it. You are the very, very few though.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

And, actually, most of my meals *are* beans and rice (or cheap pasta), though I did find ground turkey for $1.39/lb in convenient frozen packages. I get bones for cheap and make stock, and have a bunch of leftover powdered spices from better times. Veggie scraps go in the freezer to make veggie stock, too. There's a nice Chinese market nearby that has good deals on napa and other cheap veg.

You would be amazed what kinds of deliciousness are hidden in what seems like useless parts or trash. It just takes time and patience and heat and water. And knowledge.

Now are you going to double down on what you no doubt thought was a devastating expose of someone else's supposed hypocrisy, or is the shock of meeting someone who actually puts her (lack of) money where her mouth is still stunning you?

I don't have fucking Netflix either. You're only showing what a disgusting person you are by immediately jumping to these conclusions. I grew up poor. I've been homeless. I've had plenty of times where what I could salvage out of someone's trash was all. Don't you ever, ever, accuse me of this again, do you understand?

 

[UglyCasanova]

Me?

Don't you ever, ever, accuse me of this again, do you understand?

Even if that part wasn't to me you're not our mom. Chill out

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

That was for the person above you, sorry. @kinev, not you. Though let's be real, you've said some similarly awful stuff too :/

 

[jackstar7]

Collective action > Individual action.

 

[Jhhnn]

She prayed to god that they had autism. No clearer indication than that. If a diagnosis of autism would not get the boys back on SSDI I don't think she would have been on her knees begging for it.

She prayed that they'd get the diagnosis she already believes is true. She also can't see any beneficial alternatives.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

She prayed that they'd get the diagnosis she already believes is true. She also can't see any beneficial alternatives.

Maybe we're interpreting what's written differently it appears she needs the extra $1200 to pay debts. She does not appear to have a strategy for dealing with autism. She needs the $1200 monthly to pay debts not to pay for schooling or counseling or any other stuff for the twins.
Point is when does aid do more harm than good?

 

[Geekbabe]

He'll do great. Plenty of positions for number oriented individuals.

Accounting comes to mind

LOL. He's already texting me about getting an MBA, he'd like to learn to speak Korean & go to work overseas in IT accounting/ loss prevention or as he says " be the find the money guy"

He is very formal & exact in his politeness & has many Asian friends, even speaks a bit of Japanese.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

LOL. He's already texting me about getting an MBA, he'd like to learn to speak Korean & go to work overseas in IT accounting/ loss prevention or as he says " be the find the money guy"

He is very formal & exact in his politeness & has many Asian friends, even speaks a bit of Japanese.

Seriously have him check out TJX Companies. They need tons of import and accountant types. Middle of the road pay but good benefits and from when I worked there I can say they generally care about workers welfare.

 

[UglyCasanova]

LOL. He's already texting me about getting an MBA, he'd like to learn to speak Korean & go to work overseas in IT accounting/ loss prevention or as he says " be the find the money guy"

He is very formal & exact in his politeness & has many Asian friends, even speaks a bit of Japanese.

There's an old name, didn't know you even posted here anymore. I rarely venture to any of the other sub forums on here though.

 

[Jhhnn]

Maybe we're interpreting what's written differently it appears she needs the extra $1200 to pay debts. She does not appear to have a strategy for dealing with autism. She needs the $1200 monthly to pay debts not to pay for schooling or counseling or any other stuff for the twins.
Point is when does aid do more harm than good?

The honest alternative for the family are what, exactly? Just be poorer?

Your "concerns" are merely thinly disguised moralisms. Save your concerns about other people getting something for nothing for people like Trump.

 

[Atreus21]

I have a question.

If tomorrow this person were completely cut off from every one of these services, what would she do?

 

[ch33zw1z]

I have a question.

If tomorrow this person were completely cut off from every one of these services, what would she do?

Easy, commit crimes to make it by.

Imprisonment is far more costly.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The honest alternative for the family are what, exactly? Just be poorer?

Your "concerns" are merely thinly disguised moralisms. Save your concerns about other people getting something for nothing for people like Trump.

So Trump does it makes it alright for her too? Are you really saying that? Possibly over medicating kids is alright?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Where'd the medication come in.

Been trying to follow, not sure I missed something?

Trumps bs is on a different level than this ladies. By far.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Where'd the medication come in.

Been trying to follow, not sure I missed something?

Trumps bs is on a different level than this ladies. By far.

from the story:

First came Kathy Strait, 55, who withdrew six pills from a miniature backpack and swallowed them. Then emerged her daughter, Franny Tidwell, 32, who rummaged through 29 bottles of medication atop the refrigerator and brought down her own: oxcarbazepine for bipolar disorder, fluoxetine for depression, an opiate for pain. She next reached for two green bottles of Tenex, a medication for hyperactivity, filled two glasses with water and said, “Come here, boys.”

kind of drug related. The boys were playing rough(?) with the puppy and were afraid they killed the puppy here's what they asked for

“Give him some pain medicine!” William said.

“Your puppy just died,” Dale said.

“Give him some pain medicine!” William said again.

She pulled up to the pain clinic, past a slogan that said, “Where Life Just Gets Better,” and followed Franny and the kids inside. “Y’all be good now,” she whispered, settling the children beside a sign listing 26 possible side effects of narcotics before noticing a woman she knew.

“First time seeing you in here,” the woman said.

“Really? I come every month,” Kathy said.

“I do, too,” the woman said. “So, how you doing?”

There was a pause.

“Pretty good, I guess,” Kathy said, shrugging slightly. “Raising grandbabies.”

And then those grandbabies were alone, sitting beside warnings of “addiction” and “physical dependence,” quietly waiting for their grandmother and mother, who suffers pain from scoliosis, to return with fresh prescriptions.

The hot sauce part. Jason Ryan is a social worker. Not sure if a Dr said lay off the hot sauce:

“Go fix them, Dale!” Kathy said. “You’ve got time to eat them.”

He went to the kitchen, plopped a brick of ramen noodles into a bowl with a little water and put it in the microwave.

“Are we still eating those late at night?” Ryan asked, knowing Dale eats noodles drowned in hot sauce for all meals and sometimes wakes up with stomach pain. “We’re not supposed to be eating this late at night.”

“I still do,” Dale said. “And I’ve never had no problems. Been taking ranitidine for it.”

“Ranitidine is not for the stomach,” Kaitlyn said. “The stomach medicine I take is promethazine.”

“Ranitidine is for heartburn and stuff,” Kathy said.

“Well, it still helps me,” Dale said.

Ryan, trying to hide his exasperation, said, “Kathy, is he eating so much hot sauce late at night?” And then about William, who sometimes wouldn’t eat: “Have you tried offering him little amounts of food?”

*Above Bold part was said by a 10 year old kid


I can't remember and don't want to review in mobile.
Everyone is on some kind of med. one of the twins likes ramen noodles with tons of hot sauce. The state social worker said should the boy be eating that late and didn't the dr say eat less hot sauce to alleviate his stomach problems. The response was the stomach med makes it better.

*may have been the semi Down's syndrome daughter. I forgot

This is really my question of when help does more harm than good. Being able to see a Dr is good, given a medication that is assumed to be free so it can be misused sounds bad to me.

 

[Jhhnn]

So Trump does it makes it alright for her too? Are you really saying that? Possibly over medicating kids is alright?

Hopping around a lot, huh? That's the first mention of "over medicating kids". You're just rationalizing at this point.

Wake up & smell the coffee. America is full of poor people living screwed up lives so that guys like Trump can shit in gold toilets. The financial elite sees no profit in hiring these people, or they would have. And so long as it's about profit, they won't, either.

How poor should the govt of the people let the people become, anyway?

 

[UglyCasanova]

Hopping around a lot, huh? That's the first mention of "over medicating kids". You're just rationalizing at this point.

Wake up & smell the coffee. America is full of poor people living screwed up lives so that guys like Trump can shit in gold toilets. The financial elite sees no profit in hiring these people, or they would have. And so long as it's about profit, they won't, either.

How poor should the govt of the people let the people become, anyway?

The flip side is that we are all poor. Would having no billionaires to to point our fingers at make it better? I'm not for tax breaks for the rich, I believe in a progressive tax system, they should be taxed hire, and the loopholes removed. But the anger because we have wealthy people is misguided.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Hopping around a lot, huh? That's the first mention of "over medicating kids". You're just rationalizing at this point.

Wake up & smell the coffee. America is full of poor people living screwed up lives so that guys like Trump can shit in gold toilets. The financial elite sees no profit in hiring these people, or they would have. And so long as it's about profit, they won't, either.

How poor should the govt of the people let the people become, anyway?

I've mentioned when does help do more harm than good numerous times, this is the topic you want to skip and just go straight to corporate welfare or the wealthy. Those are good topics however that really doesn't factor into this discussion other than job prospects but it doesn't seem she is capable of working because of health issues/child care issues (DISCLAIMER: I'd have to re-read the story to be certain of this)
When does help do more harm than good?