I didn't register for selective service, anyone else?

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finite automaton

Golden Member
Apr 30, 2008
1,226
0
0
NON-CITIZENS
Some non-citizens are required to register. Others are not. Noncitizens who are not required to register with Selective Service include men who are in the U.S. on student or visitor visas, and men who are part of a diplomatic or trade mission and their families. Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens, legal permanent residents, and refugees. The general rule is that if a male noncitizen takes up residency in the U.S. before his 26th birthday, he must register with Selective Service.
 

looker001

Banned
Jun 25, 2007
603
0
0
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
I had heard about needing to register after turning 18, but I had no idea where I need to go to do it. So I went to the Army recruiters office and asked about it, but the jackass there kept trying to recruit me even though I told him I just wanted to register for selective service. :p

Then I forgot about it and looks like I wasn't registered until 2006 (must have been when I renewed my drivers license or something, maybe they automatically do it). mrSHEiK124, maybe that's how you were registered? Also would be funny if OP was registered and he didn't even realize it. :D

I checked, i am not registered
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: actuarial
Originally posted by: irishScott
Just move to Canada or Mexico (preferably the latter, I have Canadian relatives) and get it over with. From the sound of it you're not the kind of person we want here anyway. I don't care about what you want. You want to enjoy the benefits of living here, you should be willing to, in the worst case scenario (at least), defend your country. Otherwise you're nothing but a leech; and judging by this thread, a pretty dumb one. Kinda like most of the rest of the people who didn't register. Apparently the government and some employers feel the same way, so you fucked yourself up and are now reaping what you sowed.

I have zero sympathy.

I'm Canadian, so maybe my opinion is skewed a little from the fact that we try to stay outta shit (the swiss are our idols), but were the last two drafts (Korea, Nam) really about defending your country?

I'd be the first to sign up for our military if another country started a war with us, on our soil, but there's no way in hell I'd sign up to allow my government to send me off to any war they chose.

I wonder how many people would support the draft if they enacted it during Iraq. Would that have been defending the country? What about Afganistan? Sure there's the assumption that it will only be used in the most dire of circumstances, but it seems contrary to me in a land touted as the standard of freedom that people would consent to being sent off to war whenever their government sees fit (especially considering the track record).

The war is Afghanistan is one I wholly support, and I am glad we are starting to finish up what we started in Iraq, as our plans are to drastically cut out forces in Iraq and move back to Afghanistan... the war that actually has importance, and our undercutting of its importance earlier has given way to Afghanistan slipping quite a bit.

I won't say that Iraq was a bad choice, as its rooted in decent reasoning, but we need to stop caring about other country's problems and focus on our own. But we also shouldn't just ditch Iraq... finish what you start unless doing so poses severe consequences on your own country.

Korea and Vietnam were mostly rooted in the anti-Communism stance the US had. We greatly feared, and still sort of do, the power of Communism when spread around the world. It had logical backing too. Similar countries tend to support each other. We've never fought a war against a Democratic country (we aren't a democratic country technically speaking, but follow democratic procedures and are basically lumped in the democratic category, easily justified when speaking in terms of democratic, socialist/communist, dictatorship, or anarchistic). And historically speaking, communist nations have often helped each other in hard times. When Communism was spreading, many Democratic countries felt the best answer was to wipe out the Communist uprisings that could be tackled. China was never a possibility, and as long as they aren't threatening other countries we don't give them much beef.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
I had heard about needing to register after turning 18, but I had no idea where I need to go to do it. So I went to the Army recruiters office and asked about it, but the jackass there kept trying to recruit me even though I told him I just wanted to register for selective service. :p

Then I forgot about it and looks like I wasn't registered until 2006 (must have been when I renewed my drivers license or something, maybe they automatically do it). mrSHEiK124, maybe that's how you were registered? Also would be funny if OP was registered and he didn't even realize it. :D

Got my driver's license in FL when I was 16. Says I was registered in November 08, a month before I turned 18. Weird. I am currently receiving state financial aid (no strings attached free ride to any FL university, FL fuck yeah :p!) maybe that's it?

Maybe it was a simple card you filled out prior to turning 18 and completely forgot about it?

I believe you can send your card in like a month prior to turning 18 or something similar.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,265
14,691
146
"
Originally posted by: Zim Hosein
Originally posted by: BoomerD
IMO, any immigrant (legal or otherwise) who doesn't register should be immediately deported...

I was under the impression that registration for the SS was for "natural-born" US citizens only BoomerD? :confused:

"ATTENTION, UNDOCUMENTED MALES
& IMMIGRANT SERVICING GROUPS!

If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It?s the law. You can register at any U.S. Post Office and do not need a social security number. When you do obtain a social security number, let Selective Service know. Provide a copy of your new social security number card; being sure to include your complete name, date of birth, Selective Service registration number, and current mailing address; and mail to the Selective Service System, P.O. Box 94636, Palatine, IL 60094-4636."

http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/WhoMus...isterChart_7-23-08.pdf

"WHO MUST REGISTER

Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. It's important to know that even though he is registered, a man will not automatically be inducted into the military. In a crisis requiring a draft, men would be called in sequence determined by random lottery number and year of birth. Then, they would be examined for mental, physical and moral fitness by the military before being deferred or exempted from military service or inducted into the Armed Forces.

NON-CITIZENS
Some non-citizens are required to register. Others are not. Noncitizens who are not required to register with Selective Service include men who are in the U.S. on student or visitor visas, and men who are part of a diplomatic or trade mission and their families. Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens, legal permanent residents, and refugees. The general rule is that if a male noncitizen takes up residency in the U.S. before his 26th birthday, he must register with Selective Service. For a more detailed list of which non-citizens must register, see Who Must Register - Chart .

DUAL NATIONALS
Dual nationals of the U.S. and another country are required to register, regardless of where they live, because they are U.S. nationals.
See also Aliens and Dual Nationals - Liability for Service:

ALIENS AND DUAL NATIONALS

U.S. non-citizens and dual nationals are required by law to register with the Selective Service System.* Most are also liable for induction into the U.S. Armed Forces if there is a draft. They would also be eligible for any deferments, postponements, and exemptions available to all other registrants.

However, some aliens and dual nationals would be exempt from induction into the military if there is a draft, depending on their country of origin and other factors. Some of these exemptions are shown below:

An alien who has lived in the U.S. for less than one year is exempt from induction.
A dual national whose other country of nationality has an agreement with the U.S. which specifically provides for an exemption is exempt from induction.
[Some countries have agreements with the U.S. which exempt an alien national who is a citizen of both that country and the U.S. from military service in the U.S. Armed Forces.] An alien who requests and is exempt under an agreement or bilateral treaty can never become a U.S. citizen, and may have trouble reentering the U.S. if he leaves.
An alien who served at least a year in the military of a country with which the U.S. is involved in mutual defense activities will be exempt from military service if he is a national of a country that grants reciprocal privileges to citizens of the U.S.
During a draft, any claims for exemptions based on any of the above categories would be granted or denied by a man's Local Board.

Military examiners make the final decision about who will be accepted into the military.

*Note: Currently, aliens cannot volunteer for the U.S. military unless they have permanent resident alien status.





 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
Originally posted by: looker001
Originally posted by: sonambulo
The...30 seconds it takes to fill out the card?

Yes, but i didn't want to take a chances off being drafted

Now you won't have to take any chances of getting a Federal job.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Originally posted by: actuarial
Originally posted by: irishScott
Just move to Canada or Mexico (preferably the latter, I have Canadian relatives) and get it over with. From the sound of it you're not the kind of person we want here anyway. I don't care about what you want. You want to enjoy the benefits of living here, you should be willing to, in the worst case scenario (at least), defend your country. Otherwise you're nothing but a leech; and judging by this thread, a pretty dumb one. Kinda like most of the rest of the people who didn't register. Apparently the government and some employers feel the same way, so you fucked yourself up and are now reaping what you sowed.

I have zero sympathy.

I'm Canadian, so maybe my opinion is skewed a little from the fact that we try to stay outta shit (the swiss are our idols), but were the last two drafts (Korea, Nam) really about defending your country?

I'd be the first to sign up for our military if another country started a war with us, on our soil, but there's no way in hell I'd sign up to allow my government to send me off to any war they chose.

I wonder how many people would support the draft if they enacted it during Iraq. Would that have been defending the country? What about Afganistan? Sure there's the assumption that it will only be used in the most dire of circumstances, but it seems contrary to me in a land touted as the standard of freedom that people would consent to being sent off to war whenever their government sees fit (especially considering the track record).

Korea and Nam: Yes. Especially Korea. They were surrogate wars of the larger Cold War. The only reason there wasn't a direct war between the USSR and the US was nukes IMO.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan, there are many reasons the draft hasn't been enacted. Sure public outcry would be huge, but also it's not necessary per-se. Likewise drafts are pretty ineffective in any war not involving large scale armies. The vast majority of soldiers in the US military are willing, highly trained professionals; the kind of people we need for counter-insurgency efforts. Draftees and conscripts are by unofficial definition less effective in this context. The whole idea of a draft is to raise large numbers of effective troops quickly when needed, not to bolster recruitment.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: actuarial
Originally posted by: irishScott
Just move to Canada or Mexico (preferably the latter, I have Canadian relatives) and get it over with. From the sound of it you're not the kind of person we want here anyway. I don't care about what you want. You want to enjoy the benefits of living here, you should be willing to, in the worst case scenario (at least), defend your country. Otherwise you're nothing but a leech; and judging by this thread, a pretty dumb one. Kinda like most of the rest of the people who didn't register. Apparently the government and some employers feel the same way, so you fucked yourself up and are now reaping what you sowed.

I have zero sympathy.

I'm Canadian, so maybe my opinion is skewed a little from the fact that we try to stay outta shit (the swiss are our idols), but were the last two drafts (Korea, Nam) really about defending your country?

I'd be the first to sign up for our military if another country started a war with us, on our soil, but there's no way in hell I'd sign up to allow my government to send me off to any war they chose.

I wonder how many people would support the draft if they enacted it during Iraq. Would that have been defending the country? What about Afganistan? Sure there's the assumption that it will only be used in the most dire of circumstances, but it seems contrary to me in a land touted as the standard of freedom that people would consent to being sent off to war whenever their government sees fit (especially considering the track record).

Korea and Nam: Yes. Especially Korea. They were surrogate wars of the larger Cold War. The only reason there wasn't a direct war between the USSR and the US was nukes IMO.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan, there's are many reasons the draft hasn't been enacted. Sure public outcry would be huge, but also it's not necessary per-se. Likewise drafts are pretty ineffective in any war not involving large scale armies. The vast majority of soldiers in the US military are willing, highly trained professionals; the kind of people we need for counter-insurgency efforts. Draftees and conscripts are by unofficial definition less effective in this context. The whole idea of a draft is to raise large numbers of effective troops quickly when needed, not to bolster recruitment.

This.

Wars fought with the draft enacted is to have a large army, one in which the principal objective is to capture large areas of terrain.

And it was after the failure that was Vietnam that it was seen how ineffective it is against a threat like the Vietcong. It wasn't warfare as the US had known it, and because of that, we had to revisit our efforts.
And the result is what is seen today. A smaller, more manageable, highly proficient military fighting force that with effective campaign training is capable of basically any style of warfare. A little time spent training with new tactics is all that is necessary to prepare our military for a different threat.

But with our current size, there is no way we could fight an effective territorial campaign against a large country. Let's hope that war with Russia never comes. If its with China I think we just have to raise our white flag. Without breaking UN treaties against various missiles, and nukes, we couldn't match their millions upon millions upon millions of bullet sponges. Then again, in a war of that size, I don't think we'd be alone, nor exactly in the mood to care about the UN. UN would probably be gone at that point for a failure to do anything that matters since preventing something like that is basically the whole point of the UN.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
Originally posted by: looker001
Originally posted by: Megatomic
Originally posted by: looker001
Originally posted by: Megatomic
Hahaha, I'm glad your plan worked out so well for you. :thumbsup:

I only got other 1 million place to work. I have finance degree.
So why are you whining about it here then?

The fact that i can't work for fedral government because i didn't register for selective service. It should not matter if i registered or not, only if i am qualified to work

One of the qualifications is that you had to have registered for the SS.

You don't meet the qualifications, genius.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
To Irishscott and destrekor, I partially see what you guys are saying.

While those wars may have been necessary, were they necessary to the point of rallying up average citizens and throwing them out there? That I still can't agree with. Maybe the US did see a point in fighting in Korea and Vietnam (in a cold war sense, but certainly not a defending our borders sense), but I can't see the justification in grabbing Joe out of the steel mill and handing him a gun. It's not like the Koreans/VC were knocking on the door and bombing US cities. I WOULD agree with it for WW2, specifically against the Japanese, and can sort of see it for Europe too. Those were real threats to US soil, and I can understand asking everyone (not just those enlisted) to stand up and fight at that point.

I could even see myself signing up here if the stipulation was that it had to be a war which directly threatened Canadian soil.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on what constitutes 'defending our country' and what is essentially a political war.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,838
33,880
136
Of course, had the buttheads (Carter and Congress) bothered to read the Constitution they would have recognized that the draft is illegal and found some lawful way to express their displeasure with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan rather than mandating draft registration. On the other hand, the tactic seems to have worked. After nine years, the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan, largely in response to the relentless psychological beating imposed by the draft registration requirement in the U.S.

Article. XIII.
[Proposed 1865; Ratified 1865]
Section. 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section. 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
Originally posted by: actuarial
To Irishscott and destrekor, I partially see what you guys are saying.

While those wars may have been necessary, were they necessary to the point of rallying up average citizens and throwing them out there? That I still can't agree with. Maybe the US did see a point in fighting in Korea and Vietnam (in a cold war sense, but certainly not a defending our borders sense), but I can't see the justification in grabbing Joe out of the steel mill and handing him a gun. It's not like the Koreans/VC were knocking on the door and bombing US cities. I WOULD agree with it for WW2, specifically against the Japanese, and can sort of see it for Europe too. Those were real threats to US soil, and I can understand asking everyone (not just those enlisted) to stand up and fight at that point.

I could even see myself signing up here if the stipulation was that it had to be a war which directly threatened Canadian soil.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on what constitutes 'defending our country' and what is essentially a political war.

Well just to clarify, I see defending my country as defending it from any threat, no matter how indirect. If a significant traditional army ever made it to US soil given our current status as super-power, someone in the government fucked up. If we'd waited until the Russians or Chinese were invading Alaska, we would have already lost the Cold War IMO.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,852
146
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
I had heard about needing to register after turning 18, but I had no idea where I need to go to do it. So I went to the Army recruiters office and asked about it, but the jackass there kept trying to recruit me even though I told him I just wanted to register for selective service. :p

Then I forgot about it and looks like I wasn't registered until 2006 (must have been when I renewed my drivers license or something, maybe they automatically do it). mrSHEiK124, maybe that's how you were registered? Also would be funny if OP was registered and he didn't even realize it. :D

Got my driver's license in FL when I was 16. Says I was registered in November 08, a month before I turned 18. Weird. I am currently receiving state financial aid (no strings attached free ride to any FL university, FL fuck yeah :p!) maybe that's it?

Maybe it was a simple card you filled out prior to turning 18 and completely forgot about it?

I believe you can send your card in like a month prior to turning 18 or something similar.

I think if you do the FAFSA you can have it automatically register for you.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
I did it because I don't expect there to be a draft.

But even if there is, Canada is a short drive away.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: irishScott
Originally posted by: actuarial
To Irishscott and destrekor, I partially see what you guys are saying.

While those wars may have been necessary, were they necessary to the point of rallying up average citizens and throwing them out there? That I still can't agree with. Maybe the US did see a point in fighting in Korea and Vietnam (in a cold war sense, but certainly not a defending our borders sense), but I can't see the justification in grabbing Joe out of the steel mill and handing him a gun. It's not like the Koreans/VC were knocking on the door and bombing US cities. I WOULD agree with it for WW2, specifically against the Japanese, and can sort of see it for Europe too. Those were real threats to US soil, and I can understand asking everyone (not just those enlisted) to stand up and fight at that point.

I could even see myself signing up here if the stipulation was that it had to be a war which directly threatened Canadian soil.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on what constitutes 'defending our country' and what is essentially a political war.

Well just to clarify, I see defending my country as defending it from any threat, no matter how indirect. If a significant traditional army ever made it to US soil given our current status as super-power, someone in the government fucked up. If we'd waited until the Russians or Chinese were invading Alaska, we would have already lost the Cold War IMO.

Agreed.

Now, not every threat needs to be made into a war, but the point of the US's style of war is to take it to the enemy so the enemy can never bring it here. And we've extended that style of thought to include other countries we find as valued allies. If an enemy can harm us or our allies, and have the desire to do so, we do what we can to take them out.

But as we stated before, if we desire to fight a war with a large and powerful enemy, in a traditional territorial campaign, we need numbers. If we were to fight a war somewhere else, we needed volunteers, and when the number of volunteers didn't meet the numbers the commanders thought necessary, a draft was instated to fill those numbers.

In part it is political warfare. But we cannot say, oh we want to wage war... do we have the numbers? And if the volunteer standing army doesn't have those numbers, just pull back on the idea and forget about waging a war? It can't quite work like that.

Unless the world, and warfare permanently changes, there will always be a need to somehow have a large ready military. There are two answers to this: either have an all-volunteer, professional army and have a draft as backup in case those numbers are ever needed... or have a requirement that all of-age males serve for a few years in the military... those that stay help boost the numbers, and those that leave are replaced by the next wave of those now of required age. This provides for a potentially very large military. Something like this might not work in the US... because first preventing the American public from rioting would be a big task, and two... we'd have to drastically change the fundamentals of our military and military installations. We'd need far more training camps and military bases.

Adding that to our current military would take a decade, at best, to even get the plans ironed out, and then actually get all the bases prepared... it would be a mess. Could change it so that all of that certain age group are required to do Reserve duty or National Guard, but that'd still be a similar mess, just less Active-component installations and more demand on the state command.

In short... the draft is likely the better option. The required service duty would provide for a more capable fighting force, but probably isn't feasible and likely not something we'll ever see made into law.
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
81
Originally posted by: jpeyton
I did it because I don't expect there to be a draft.

But even if there is, Canada is a short drive away.
I'd have no problem fighting for a good cause, even though I'd probably be nothing more than cannon fodder. :p

If they tried to draft me for some bullshit war like Iraq or Vietnam, though.. I might have to become a draft dodger.

Short of a worldwide conflict, though, I really doubt we'll ever have another draft. As others have pointed out, modern conflicts seem to be more about special ops than fighting with sheer numbers.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Originally posted by: ironwing
Of course, had the buttheads (Carter and Congress) bothered to read the Constitution they would have recognized that the draft is illegal and found some lawful way to express their displeasure with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan rather than mandating draft registration. On the other hand, the tactic seems to have worked. After nine years, the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan, largely in response to the relentless psychological beating imposed by the draft registration requirement in the U.S.

Article. XIII.
[Proposed 1865; Ratified 1865]
Section. 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section. 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Eh... it'd take some fancy pants lawyers and some easily swayed Supreme Court Judges to convince them that the Draft is illegal under those pretenses.

What I hate is, just like what is done with the First Amendment, is people seeing things that aren't there in something written before our time. I won't get into the First Amendment argument, that's wholly P&N and I don't care to get into that even there, for they are rabid and armchair lawyers...

But come on. The entirety of Amendment 13 is discussing slavery. Involuntary servitude is a means to describe someone being forced into doing labor, aka slavery without all of the slavery connotations, such as whips and whatnot.

You think, during the times when the Draft was used for the first time, or later, that it hadn't passed down to all the people in Washington? The Supreme Court had to have reviewed it, and Amendment 13 had been around for a few years so it was readily known. And while I don't know if it was the case, but I wouldn't doubt if someone tried to argue that it was a form of slavery/involuntary servitude, and took it to the Supreme Court. And it sounds like it must have been readily rejected since it hasn't been made illegal, not then, nor now. Just hasn't been used for reasons discussed earlier.

And besides, if Congress and the President write it into law, and the Supreme Court doesn't object, then it is in fact not illegal, until the Supreme Court deems otherwise.

I fail to see how the Draft can be seen as slavery or involuntary servitude.
 

roid450

Senior member
Sep 4, 2008
858
0
0
OP is a dumb ass :p the definition of Lazy

and the US hasn't been drafting since Vietnam