I am wrong, public schools need more money

[glenn1]

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2010/02/dc-public-schools-129-trillion-28170.html

$4k more a year/head and we send all these kids to Harvard. The system is completely broke.

Maybe the kids are just stupid. And it's a city run by progressives, spending/wasting lots of money is a given.

 

[Vic]

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power."
-- Thomas Jefferson

 

[Vette73]

I'm not joking. It's what my town's school system did, and I ended up leaving it for a private school, at my parents' expense, because the town was blowing so much money into special education. We had a member of the school board who was noted for saying she would never ever see money going to gifted and talented programs, and that we didn't spend enough on special education.

Thank you for the tidbit about the districts getting sued, I hadn't really considered that one into my thoughts. Although clearly, with people like that woman on the school board, lawsuits aren't necessary here.

Here in Fairfax VA a couple sued for over 150k and that was for about 2 years for their kid. That was just 1 kid.
Of course Fairfax is known for being one of the best school districts when it comes to education and they still get sued for not doing enough.

If public schools could get away with half of what private schools do they could cut cost a TON!

 

[DougoMan]

Still cheaper than prison.

And really why on earth would you expect primary school to be cheaper than college? Primary school is basically daycare and requires constant supervision.

 

[charrison]

You're overlooking special education. How about a 6-1-1 class: 6 students, maximum, (or the district is sued) 1 teacher, 1 aide. Special education costs districts a fortune. And there are a lot of very outspoken advocates for special education.

I agree with them that their kids deserve the best education that they can get. Unfortunately, the expense is that the programs for the top kids, enrichment programs, etc., get cut to pay for the special education programs.

Not really overlooking it. This is of course cost per average kid and about 95% oif kids are normoal. The remaining 5% is not hugely skew the average classroom cost.

 

[Hacp]

You're overlooking special education. How about a 6-1-1 class: 6 students, maximum, (or the district is sued) 1 teacher, 1 aide. Special education costs districts a fortune. And there are a lot of very outspoken advocates for special education.

I agree with them that their kids deserve the best education that they can get. Unfortunately, the expense is that the programs for the top kids, enrichment programs, etc., get cut to pay for the special education programs.

They key is they can get not what the government can hand them.

 

[DougoMan]

You're overlooking special education. How about a 6-1-1 class: 6 students, maximum, (or the district is sued) 1 teacher, 1 aide. Special education costs districts a fortune. And there are a lot of very outspoken advocates for special education.

I agree with them that their kids deserve the best education that they can get. Unfortunately, the expense is that the programs for the top kids, enrichment programs, etc., get cut to pay for the special education programs.

So you are suggesting we abandon retarded children?

Real nice.

 

[MotF Bane]

So you are suggesting we abandon retarded children?

Real nice.

So you are suggesting we abandon all the other children for the mentally challenged children?

Real nice.

 

[theeedude]

CATO numbers, probably suspect. Maybe they built some new schools during the year which ran up their expenses.

 

[Argo]

There's a big difference between Harvard and public school system. Harvard can pick its students so it only has to educate the best of the best. Public school systems don't get that choice, so they have to educate everybody. I'm guessing educating stupid people is more expensive that educating smart ones.

 

[MotF Bane]

CATO numbers, probably suspect. Maybe they built some new schools during the year which ran up their expenses.

Attack the source, but you don't have anything to back up your guesses.

There's a big difference between Harvard and public school system. Harvard can pick its students so it only has to educate the best of the best. Public school systems don't get that choice, so they have to educate everybody. I'm guessing educating stupid people is more expensive that educating smart ones.

It takes money to keep the best teachers/professors around to educate the smart students.

 

[HannibalX]

More money is not the answer. They give these kids new computers every few years, half of them can't ready or write. What the fuck good is a computer if you can't read or write?

 

[Carmen813]

So you are suggesting we abandon all the other children for the mentally challenged children?

Real nice.

The problem is not special needs children. You guys have no god damn clue what you are talking about. Hell, I only have a small idea, and my mother is an assistant superintendent and I tutor inner city school kids.

If there was an easy solution it would have been fixed by now.

 

[charrison]

The problem is not special needs children. You guys have no god damn clue what you are talking about. Hell, I only have a small idea, and my mother is an assistant superintendent and I tutor inner city school kids.

If there was an easy solution it would have been fixed by now.

There is an easy fix. Attach school funding the kids. Let the parents send their kids to whatever school they want and the bad schools will die quickly.

 

[charrison]

More money is not the answer. They give these kids new computers every few years, half of them can't ready or write. What the fuck good is a computer if you can't read or write?

Computers are not even really needed until the basics are mastered.

 

[BrownTown]

The private high school I went to costs $15,000 a year for day students now and the average SAT was over 1200, I really doubt that the DC schools are getting over 1200 SATs (I guess that is 1800 now with the new SAT) despite spending twice as much money per student. Hell, 28k is what the boarding students paid.

 

[Hacp]

More money is not the answer. They give these kids new computers every few years, half of them can't ready or write. What the fuck good is a computer if you can't read or write?

But but.. you can watch youtube!

 

[alchemize]

Season 4 of The Wire. Explains everything...

 

[BrownTown]

Season 4 of The Wire. Explains everything...

that's what they said about Lost and I am still more fucking confused than ever...

 

[Carmen813]

There is an easy fix. Attach school funding the kids. Let the parents send their kids to whatever school they want and the bad schools will die quickly.

That will do little, if anything. Few people deliberately send their kids to a bad school. Knowledge of basic supply and demand should tell you this won't work (not to mention the logistical problems). Even if you allowed this there would still be a huge percentage of kids who would attend sub-par schools. There's a reason universities don't accept everyone who applies.

Get off your anti-teacher/union/public education hate train for 3 minutes and actually use those critical thinking skills I'm assuming you were taught in a public school to contemplate why your idea wouldn't change things for the better.

It seems very easy to think you can wave a magic wand and fix everything until you actually spend some time with the kids and their families.

 

[charrison]

That will do little, if anything. Few people deliberately send their kids to a bad school. Knowledge of basic supply and demand should tell you this won't work (not to mention the logistical problems). Even if you allowed this there would still be a huge percentage of kids who would attend sub-par schools. There's a reason universities don't accept everyone who applies.

There are many people out there that dont have a choice of which schools their kids go to. Moving is basically the only way to have choice and many people just cant afford that.
It is that simple.

Get off your anti-teacher/union/public education hate train for 3 minutes and actually use those critical thinking skills I'm assuming you were taught in a public school to contemplate why your idea wouldn't change things for the better.

Where did I say anything about private schools? Might want to brush up on those reading compression skills. Ideally people would be able to choice between public and private, but I am ok with just letting people which public school to go to.

It seems very easy to think you can wave a magic wand and fix everything until you actually spend some time with the kids and their families.

I did not say it was easy or trouble free. But it is time to stop forcing kids to go back schools that we know are bad. And no, most public schools are not bad.

 

[MotF Bane]

Get off your anti-teacher/union/public education hate train for 3 minutes

Now we know where your loyalties lie on this.

 

[Carmen813]

Where did I say anything about private schools? Might want to brush up on those reading compression skills. Ideally people would be able to choice between public and private, but I am ok with just letting people which public school to go to.

I don't think I specifically said private schools, but maybe you interpreted it that way. I was assuming that you meant people could choose public or private schools. I don't think will make the types of broad changes you think it will. I understand that many can't choose to send their kids elsewhere without moving, but I think the only thing that would happen is that good schools would be dragged down. Even if not, the "good" public schools will still not be able to admit everyone, and someone (the vast majority in certain areas) will be forced to attend the "bad" ones. Either that or you will just have a bunch of kids who receive no education at all, which is a recipe for total disaster. Some of these "bad" schools are still the focal point and highlight of a community, it's the one thing they take pride in, and if you take that away there will be absolutely nothing left.

Now we know where your loyalties lie on this.

Oh for heaven's sake. I've stated numerous times in other threads that I am for measures that treats teaching like any other profession. That means required continuing education, performance reviews, and revocation of tenure if the teacher fails to measure up. I also think they should be paid like professionals, the salaries start too low and end up too high, it should be more consistent. If anything this is the one where I actually agree with Conservatives. Hell, I'm even willing to try school vouchers. At this point, I'm willing to try just about anything.

That said, this entire thread reeks of finger pointing (It's all those damn liberal teacher unions fault!@!!!2111!). Yes, teacher unions are PART of the problem but they are not ALL of the solution. To suggest otherwise is simply partisan blabbering that attempts to oversimplify a complex issue.

We need to have a culture that places high importance on education. It needs to be a core community, familial, and individual value. Communities need to ensure that resources are available for learning, especially for parents who may not have completed a high school education themselves. It's hard to help your kid do their homework if you don't know how to do it yourself. Families need to prioritize taking the time to prepare their children for school. And the children need to learn respect (first for themselves, then others) and be motivated to do their best. Often times education takes a back seat because of high crime rates, poverty, and a seriously damaged family structure that often includes child abuse and parental neglect (i.e., what the fuck is a dad?)

It also requires state and federal agencies (as well as the public at large) to stop assuming that the only measure of progress or teacher competency is a standardized test.

I tutor for an after-school program in one of the poorest school districts in the entire nation. I can assure you that the staff is absolutely committed to teaching, or else not a single one of them would stay there longer than a week. Hell, it's all I can manage to tutor 16 hours a week, and I only work with 6-8 kids at at time. You try getting up every morning at 5AM to go to work and deal with 25+ kids, many who have been diagnosed with ADHD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, or Conduct Disorder (coincidentally, almost none of these diagnoses means a fucking thing, all the behavior problems stem from a bad home life) and accomplish anything meaningful. I dare you to try, and if you figure it out, please clue me in quick.

Due to poor performance this year the school I work at has 3 options. (1) Shutdown and send the kids elsewhere. (2) Become a charter school. (3) Fire everyone and start over. None of those even comes close to addressing the underlying problems. The place is absolute madness. Kids don't respect teachers, each other, or anyone else from what I can tell. This from a bunch of K-5 grade students. The after-school program I work for is pulling out of this school after 10 years because of all the problems we've had this year...and it's a damn shame, because it's just another generation of kids who are going to end up nowhere. Of the 16 or so I work with, I'd say 1 has a shot at college, and maybe 3-6 others will graduate high school.

 

[Vic]

Somebody let me know when the same posters complaining here about public school funding start complaining about military and prison spending. Oh, they never do. There's hypocrisy, and then there's just plain stupid.

 

[charrison]

Somebody let me know when the same posters complaining here about public school funding start complaining about military and prison spending. Oh, they never do. There's hypocrisy, and then there's just plain stupid.

I have complained about that on more than one occasion. There it waste at all levels of govt.