I am a Christian

[Soybomb]

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: RichardEAlso, each individual will have to deal with God is his own way. I cannot say that the individual in the jungle of Asia who has never heard of Jesus is going to hell. I do know that if you know about Jesus and reject his teachings that it has been said you will be thrown into hell. Even this is still a debate among Christian circles. (I might even have some of it wrong sorry.)

Didn't Jesus say that no one comes to the Father but by me? If so, why would that not exclude those who never heard of him?

Every person ever born will have the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ, either during this life or the next. That covers all people, even those in the jungle of Asia.

I don't understand this.
The facts can easily show that there are people who have lived and died without ever hearing of Jesus or his teachings. If you say they will hear in the next life, don't you already need to be saved to experience that?

no, some christians believe ALL will be resurrected and those that never heard of J.C. on Earth will have the chance after they are resurrected. but they still have freedom of choice, nobody is forced to accept J.C. now or later or ever. if a hindu gets resurrected and still wants to stay hindu , that is freedom of choice, now and through eternity

as i stated in my other post, not ALL christians believe "non-saved" people go to hell and are SOL because they were born in a time/place where they can't learn of J.C.

Well, then we're back to square one. Jesus said that "no one comes to the Father but by me" which would seem to exclude those who haven't heard of him.

Greetings,

There is not one person that has not known of God. Jesus was before the foundations of the world. He is God, so he has always been there. Man kind has always worshiped something bigger than it simply because they have known through the ages that there has got to be something greater than themselves. But, wether they are capable of believing in a God that has complete and total perfect rightious authority is another question. Few people want to submit to that complete of an authority.

The bible does not teach that after we physically die we are given another chance. The bible teaches that once physically dead that is the end. Heaven or judgement and hell/separation from God.

Even those that died BC are able to come to God through Jesus simply because He is the Great I Am and always was, is, will be.

Peace and Blessings

I am thoroughly confused now.
Do mean that anyone who worshipped any kind of god throughout the ages is considered saved?

No.

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: Luthien
Proof Jesus is imaginary!

LINK

Greetings,

Too funny. I like how he, what is it, 'normal and intellegent people'? He is simply imagining that he is normal and intellegent.

I also like how he uses his intelegent logic to explaine things in the bible. Clearly he has spent time in the Word. He knows that he does not even have an intellegent argument.

I do fear for someone though, that has that kind of contempt. Very dangerous place to be. Since he is his own god, he will take care of himself and make his life good...

Peace and Blessings

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: RichardEAlso, each individual will have to deal with God is his own way. I cannot say that the individual in the jungle of Asia who has never heard of Jesus is going to hell. I do know that if you know about Jesus and reject his teachings that it has been said you will be thrown into hell. Even this is still a debate among Christian circles. (I might even have some of it wrong sorry.)

Didn't Jesus say that no one comes to the Father but by me? If so, why would that not exclude those who never heard of him?

Every person ever born will have the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ, either during this life or the next. That covers all people, even those in the jungle of Asia.

I don't understand this.
The facts can easily show that there are people who have lived and died without ever hearing of Jesus or his teachings. If you say they will hear in the next life, don't you already need to be saved to experience that?

no, some christians believe ALL will be resurrected and those that never heard of J.C. on Earth will have the chance after they are resurrected. but they still have freedom of choice, nobody is forced to accept J.C. now or later or ever. if a hindu gets resurrected and still wants to stay hindu , that is freedom of choice, now and through eternity

as i stated in my other post, not ALL christians believe "non-saved" people go to hell and are SOL because they were born in a time/place where they can't learn of J.C.

Well, then we're back to square one. Jesus said that "no one comes to the Father but by me" which would seem to exclude those who haven't heard of him.

Greetings,

There is not one person that has not known of God. Jesus was before the foundations of the world. He is God, so he has always been there. Man kind has always worshiped something bigger than it simply because they have known through the ages that there has got to be something greater than themselves. But, wether they are capable of believing in a God that has complete and total perfect rightious authority is another question. Few people want to submit to that complete of an authority.

The bible does not teach that after we physically die we are given another chance. The bible teaches that once physically dead that is the end. Heaven or judgement and hell/separation from God.

Even those that died BC are able to come to God through Jesus simply because He is the Great I Am and always was, is, will be.

Peace and Blessings

I am thoroughly confused now.
Do mean that anyone who worshipped any kind of god throughout the ages is considered saved?

Greetings,

Ah, sorry if I was not clear enough.

No would be the answer. Requirements are the OT and NT god.

Peace and Blessings. (out to dinner and movie)

Well then we're back to the original question.
There are people who have never heard of the OT and of Jesus.
Are they hopeless?

Greetings,

I can tell your having fun with this.

God wrote His law on His childrens hearts.
They know His law and they know Him, name and all.
Jesus is God in eternaty past and eternaty future.
So no one has ever missed the boat.

Peace and Blessings

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Luthien

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: Luthien
You know why christians "hate" atheists and any other belief so much? Because they threaten christianity's very nature. While in the midst of belief a christian cannot reconcile the self inflicted threat of hell and loss of a magical heaven. Failure to believe in a believers mind means they must give up heaven and suffer hell. The enduring threats they got suckered into believing has traped them. It will continue to trap them until they stop believing in heaven and hell but that means they are going to hell... I think you get the irony of this mind trap that religions love to use because it is so powerful; on top of that they will lose the social bonds that were created within the church and amongst fellow believers so moving on is a very scary thing. It is all no different than any cult. Christianity is a macrocosmic cult just like every other major world religion. The very threat that converted them traps them.

You're thinking from a strictly psychoanalytical perspective. Since you believe that hell is nothing more than a "self-inflicted threat" you clearly don't believe in God. So reasoning with you, again, is impossible, because the Lord has given the humble and the repentent a superior perspective through His Word.

God's perspective. We can get into the hundreds of pieces of scientific and archaeological evidence which points to a Creator (or Jesus specifically) but I don't believe it will do us any good. It did not do me any good...

Believers can only argue based on the premise that we rely on God's Word - and since you deny it, we'll just have to disagree and call it a day.

Yeah, I know your chosen and the rest of us are consigned to hell. Been there done that ad nauseam.

So, does all this scientific evidence prove the bible is litteral because if so I gotta hear these proofs.

i'm a christian, have been all my life, don't believe in the "hell" that is commonly concieved, to me, separation from God IS hell. and i don't believe in an eternal fire either.


as to hating non christians, nope, i don't hate non christians any more or less than i hate christians. i don't base my hatred of people simply on something generic as their belief system but based on my interactions with individual people. and christ discourages hatred.


your mocking tone is annoying though, we can have an intelligent conversation without the mocking.

it seems to me that many non christians / athiest are just as evangelical and full of hatred for christians as you claim christians feel for non believers. and it could be argued that this hatred stems from the same reason you claims christians hate, due to their own insecurities.

Already debated and as far as "stems from the same reason you claims christians hate, due to their own insecurities," that my friend comes from the intolerence the rest of us experience as we are being told day in and day out we are going to hell because we dont believe. Over and over this is tossed in our faces, yet somehow I am not to believe that the threat of hell is not a major force behind conversions; yeah right.

Greetings,

Are we exagerating a little? You are being told day in and day out that your going to hell? I would immagine that only if one were really evil and lived with thier mom or grandma that one might here that so often. I would guess that you hear it, litterally or in so many words, when you are talking to a 'christian' about christian stuff?

Regardless, it is not a threat. Hell is the direction everyone is headed. One may not believe it. One does not have to. But for those that truely do beleive it, I think you can understand how important it is. Lets just say that 'some' people may really want to help you or others avoid a pain more infinate than all the pain ever experienced in this world from day one. Now, that does not mean they do it properly, kindly, with humility. We also have to be able to separate the message from the messanger. I just saw the 300. The first Persian messanger? Who or what he is was irrelevent to the message to the leader of Sparta from Persia.

People that deliver the message may be non Christians, may be immature Christians, may be working from their own vanity, pride, or ego as opposed to working from the direction of God. They do not have to be perfect. But also maybe they are not one that should be delivering the message until they grow.

Just remember to try to be as open minded, ojective, logical, and accepting of Christianity and it's True Message as you are college education, friends, jobs, traffic, etc.

Peace and Blessings

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Evolution may not be the last theory that goes around, but being able to scrap a theory and go in a different direction is one of the cool things about science. Scientists don't just change theories for nothing though. Every time a major change has occurred it has been because something new has been learned.

That means that while the facts we have may be right, our extrapolations or "theories" based on those facts will likely end up being wrong. This is not a bad thing. If a theory serves no purpose other than to lead researchers to evidence that ultimately discredits it, then it has increased our knowledge of the world around us.

I'm not trying to say that you should believe in evolution. I don't really view scientific theories as things to be believed in at all. Quite the contrary, they're things to be looked upon with interest and no small measure of doubt. What I'm wondering is why, since you can't reliably invest yourself in the current theory of origin, you feel the need to put something else in the place it would take in your belief system?

So evolution probably isn't the answer. Why do you think creationism IS the answer?

Did I say I did think that in my post?

No, I guess not. My assumption was that since you don't believe in evolution as the means by which man came about you must have something else in mind. Because one of the purposes of your post was to introduce yourself as a christian I (ass)umed that what you had in mind was that man was created by god in some way other than evolution. The only thing that came to mind was creationism, so I (ass)umed that you believed in creationism.

Now that I done making an (ass) out of myself, would you mind telling me what it is that you believe?

I believe science isn't done finding out what there is to be found out.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Macattak1
Greetings,

I can tell your having fun with this.

God wrote His law on His childrens hearts.
They know His law and they know Him, name and all.
Jesus is God in eternaty past and eternaty future.
So no one has ever missed the boat.

Peace and Blessings

I'm not doing this to have fun, I really want to know what Christians believe about this.
Your answer makes no sense to me.
It is established fact that there are peoplewho are born and die without ever hearing of Jesus and his teachings. Do they get into heaven?
That's all I really want to know.
Please answer in plain English.

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

Then we truly are responsible for our father's sins. Each tiny little senseless baby born today has countless generations of sin to overcome. I am to blame for things my ancestors did that I know nothing about.

I totally disagree with this most basic of ideas. It seems to be entirely backwards to me. The father is responsible for the son, not the other way around. And each individual should pay for his own crimes, not the crimes of those who came before him.

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Macattak1
Greetings,

I can tell your having fun with this.

God wrote His law on His childrens hearts.
They know His law and they know Him, name and all.
Jesus is God in eternaty past and eternaty future.
So no one has ever missed the boat.

Peace and Blessings

I'm not doing this to have fun, I really want to know what Christians believe about this.
Your answer makes no sense to me.
It is established fact that there are peoplewho are born and die without ever hearing of Jesus and his teachings. Do they get into heaven?
That's all I really want to know.
Please answer in plain English.

Greetings,

Who goes to Heaven or Hell is God's business, but, In the most simple of terms No one goes to Heaven unles Jesus is their Lord and Saviour. If they do not know Him He does not know them.

Peace and Blessings

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

Then we truly are responsible for our father's sins. Each tiny little senseless baby born today has countless generations of sin to overcome. I am to blame for things my ancestors did that I know nothing about.

I totally disagree with this most basic of ideas. It seems to be entirely backwards to me. The father is responsible for the son, not the other way around. And each individual should pay for his own crimes, not the crimes of those who came before him.

I think this (infants and those who haven't heard of God) is one of the most complex questions in Christianity, and if you ask 5 Christians, you'll get 8 answers.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Simple, because Heaven is fellowship with God. It's passing the test and being accepted into his arms. If you spent your life rebelling against him and denying his very existence why should you have fellowship with him?

Salvation is simple and clearly give under one premise. Belief that you have a sin nature and the Jesus died so that you could have the opportunity to be with God. Its that simple really.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Macattak1
Greetings,

I can tell your having fun with this.

God wrote His law on His childrens hearts.
They know His law and they know Him, name and all.
Jesus is God in eternaty past and eternaty future.
So no one has ever missed the boat.

Peace and Blessings

I'm not doing this to have fun, I really want to know what Christians believe about this.
Your answer makes no sense to me.
It is established fact that there are peoplewho are born and die without ever hearing of Jesus and his teachings. Do they get into heaven?
That's all I really want to know.
Please answer in plain English.

Greetings,

Who goes to Heaven or Hell is God's business, but, In the most simple of terms No one goes to Heaven unles Jesus is their Lord and Saviour. If they do not know Him He does not know them.

Peace and Blessings

Okay, so those who are born and die in the jungle and never heard of Jesus, are doomed?

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

Then we truly are responsible for our father's sins. Each tiny little senseless baby born today has countless generations of sin to overcome. I am to blame for things my ancestors did that I know nothing about.

I totally disagree with this most basic of ideas. It seems to be entirely backwards to me. The father is responsible for the son, not the other way around. And each individual should pay for his own crimes, not the crimes of those who came before him.

Greetings,

We do not pay for their sins. We are Only responsible for our own sins. However, we are born into sin. Just as you are born with hair, eyes, skin, you are born with sin. If we were in control things would be very different.

Peace and Blessings

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Salvation is simple and clearly give under one premise. Belief that you have a sin nature and the Jesus died so that you could have the opportunity to be with God. Its that simple really.

That's two premises. The first one is easily grasped by anyone and is summarized in the generally accepted idea that "No one is perfect". The second premise is the one that takes some effort.

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Macattak1
Greetings,

I can tell your having fun with this.

God wrote His law on His childrens hearts.
They know His law and they know Him, name and all.
Jesus is God in eternaty past and eternaty future.
So no one has ever missed the boat.

Peace and Blessings

Greetings,

IF they were Children of God they would have the laws of God on their hearts. Thus they would have knowlege of Jesus.

Peace and Blessings
I'm not doing this to have fun, I really want to know what Christians believe about this.
Your answer makes no sense to me.
It is established fact that there are peoplewho are born and die without ever hearing of Jesus and his teachings. Do they get into heaven?
That's all I really want to know.
Please answer in plain English.

Greetings,

Who goes to Heaven or Hell is God's business, but, In the most simple of terms No one goes to Heaven unles Jesus is their Lord and Saviour. If they do not know Him He does not know them.

Peace and Blessings

Okay, so those who are born and die in the jungle and never heard of Jesus, are doomed?

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

Then we truly are responsible for our father's sins. Each tiny little senseless baby born today has countless generations of sin to overcome. I am to blame for things my ancestors did that I know nothing about.

I totally disagree with this most basic of ideas. It seems to be entirely backwards to me. The father is responsible for the son, not the other way around. And each individual should pay for his own crimes, not the crimes of those who came before him.

I think this (infants and those who haven't heard of God) is one of the most complex questions in Christianity, and if you ask 5 Christians, you'll get 8 answers.

Perhaps I can shed some more light on this. We have what would be considered a "Immunity time" (for you gamers think the protection of not being able to be killed for a small moment after spawing in many FPSs.) An "Age of Innocence" if you will. During this time, when we are not capable of searching for God (infancy, etc.) we do not have the burden of going to hell. If we die, we go to heaven to be with the Lord. This is the same for certain mentally challenged who are not capable of making a decision on such a grand scale. No one knows the limit of the Age Of Innocence as it varies from the maturity level of each person. The moment you can rationally realise the difference between believing in God, and believing in man, is when that Innocence ends.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Macattak1
Greetings,

I can tell your having fun with this.

God wrote His law on His childrens hearts.
They know His law and they know Him, name and all.
Jesus is God in eternaty past and eternaty future.
So no one has ever missed the boat.

Peace and Blessings

I'm not doing this to have fun, I really want to know what Christians believe about this.
Your answer makes no sense to me.
It is established fact that there are peoplewho are born and die without ever hearing of Jesus and his teachings. Do they get into heaven?
That's all I really want to know.
Please answer in plain English.

Greetings,

Who goes to Heaven or Hell is God's business, but, In the most simple of terms No one goes to Heaven unles Jesus is their Lord and Saviour. If they do not know Him He does not know them.

Peace and Blessings

Well, I may be going to your God's hell, but I'm going to my God's heaven. He answers to me, so it better be good.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

Then we truly are responsible for our father's sins. Each tiny little senseless baby born today has countless generations of sin to overcome. I am to blame for things my ancestors did that I know nothing about.

I totally disagree with this most basic of ideas. It seems to be entirely backwards to me. The father is responsible for the son, not the other way around. And each individual should pay for his own crimes, not the crimes of those who came before him.

I think this (infants and those who haven't heard of God) is one of the most complex questions in Christianity, and if you ask 5 Christians, you'll get 8 answers.

Perhaps I can shed some more light on this. We have what would be considered a "Immunity time" (for you gamers think the protection of not being able to be killed for a small moment after spawing in many FPSs.) An "Age of Innocence" if you will. During this time, when we are not capable of searching for God (infancy, etc.) we do not have the burden of going to hell. If we die, we go to heaven to be with the Lord. This is the same for certain mentally challenged who are not capable of making a decision on such a grand scale. No one knows the limit of the Age Of Innocence as it varies from the maturity level of each person. The moment you can rationally realise the difference between believing in God, and believing in man, is when that Innocence ends.

Is that theory an accepted Christian belief?
It sounds good to me.
However, I don't know how it jives with the verse "No one comes to the father but by me".
That would seem to include those who are incapable of knowing him.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

Then we truly are responsible for our father's sins. Each tiny little senseless baby born today has countless generations of sin to overcome. I am to blame for things my ancestors did that I know nothing about.

I totally disagree with this most basic of ideas. It seems to be entirely backwards to me. The father is responsible for the son, not the other way around. And each individual should pay for his own crimes, not the crimes of those who came before him.

I think this (infants and those who haven't heard of God) is one of the most complex questions in Christianity, and if you ask 5 Christians, you'll get 8 answers.

Perhaps I can shed some more light on this. We have what would be considered a "Immunity time" (for you gamers think the protection of not being able to be killed for a small moment after spawing in many FPSs.) An "Age of Innocence" if you will. During this time, when we are not capable of searching for God (infancy, etc.) we do not have the burden of going to hell. If we die, we go to heaven to be with the Lord. This is the same for certain mentally challenged who are not capable of making a decision on such a grand scale. No one knows the limit of the Age Of Innocence as it varies from the maturity level of each person. The moment you can rationally realise the difference between believing in God, and believing in man, is when that Innocence ends.

Is that theory an accepted Christian belief?
It sounds good to me.
However, I don't know how it jives with the verse "No one comes to the father but by me".
That would seem to include those who are incapable of knowing him.

It is in some denominations.

Most Christians that I know won't claim to know how God works out salvation for infants and those who haven't heard of him. Overall it's a theoretical conversation, and the attached practical application is that the straightforward commission followers of Christ were given was to spread the message. (To that, I add a reminder of the time Jesus told the followers to leave the towns that weren't interested, and kick the dust off their feet as they left.)

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

Then we truly are responsible for our father's sins. Each tiny little senseless baby born today has countless generations of sin to overcome. I am to blame for things my ancestors did that I know nothing about.

I totally disagree with this most basic of ideas. It seems to be entirely backwards to me. The father is responsible for the son, not the other way around. And each individual should pay for his own crimes, not the crimes of those who came before him.

I think this (infants and those who haven't heard of God) is one of the most complex questions in Christianity, and if you ask 5 Christians, you'll get 8 answers.

Perhaps I can shed some more light on this. We have what would be considered a "Immunity time" (for you gamers think the protection of not being able to be killed for a small moment after spawing in many FPSs.) An "Age of Innocence" if you will. During this time, when we are not capable of searching for God (infancy, etc.) we do not have the burden of going to hell. If we die, we go to heaven to be with the Lord. This is the same for certain mentally challenged who are not capable of making a decision on such a grand scale. No one knows the limit of the Age Of Innocence as it varies from the maturity level of each person. The moment you can rationally realise the difference between believing in God, and believing in man, is when that Innocence ends.

Is that theory an accepted Christian belief?
It sounds good to me.
However, I don't know how it jives with the verse "No one comes to the father but by me".
That would seem to include those who are incapable of knowing him.

It is in some denominations.

Most Christians that I know won't claim to know how God works out salvation for infants and those who haven't heard of him. Overall it's a theoretical conversation, and the attached practical application is that the straightforward commission followers of Christ were given was to spread the message. (To that, I add a reminder of the time Jesus told the followers to leave the towns that weren't interested, and kick the dust off their feet as they left.)

I understand that.
I know that if I were a Christian this question (and the verse) would bother me very much. If it doesn't bother you, more power to you.

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

Then we truly are responsible for our father's sins. Each tiny little senseless baby born today has countless generations of sin to overcome. I am to blame for things my ancestors did that I know nothing about.

I totally disagree with this most basic of ideas. It seems to be entirely backwards to me. The father is responsible for the son, not the other way around. And each individual should pay for his own crimes, not the crimes of those who came before him.

I think this (infants and those who haven't heard of God) is one of the most complex questions in Christianity, and if you ask 5 Christians, you'll get 8 answers.

Perhaps I can shed some more light on this. We have what would be considered a "Immunity time" (for you gamers think the protection of not being able to be killed for a small moment after spawing in many FPSs.) An "Age of Innocence" if you will. During this time, when we are not capable of searching for God (infancy, etc.) we do not have the burden of going to hell. If we die, we go to heaven to be with the Lord. This is the same for certain mentally challenged who are not capable of making a decision on such a grand scale. No one knows the limit of the Age Of Innocence as it varies from the maturity level of each person. The moment you can rationally realise the difference between believing in God, and believing in man, is when that Innocence ends.

Is that theory an accepted Christian belief?
It sounds good to me.
However, I don't know how it jives with the verse "No one comes to the father but by me".
That would seem to include those who are incapable of knowing him.

Greetings,

Remember, we don't stand on one verse. There are always more.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Further, we are chosen to work His good will, to do His rightious works.

Peace and Blessings

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Macattak1


Greetings,

Remember, we don't stand on one verse. There are always more.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Further, we are chosen to work His good will, to do His rightious works.

Peace and Blessings

Originally posted by: ThePresence
However, I don't know how it jives with the verse "No one comes to the father but by me".

You realize that you've essentially attempted to answer his question by restating the very thing he was questioning...don't you?

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Macattak1

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I do believe in hell. And yes, I believe that most people who haven't asked and received God's pardon are probably going there, but that's between them and God

I wondered if you'd like to give us more thoughts on this subject. What sort of god would punish an otherwise good person for not having faith? To me this seems terribly petty. I could not repect a god that would do such a think I don't believe.

Greetings,

If one reads the first few pages of the bible it is easy to see that per Christianity, there is no one good. Adam and Eve Fell from the top to the bottom. They deserve hell as do all their following family generations to this day and beyond. That any may be pardoned is a gift. It is not the reverse. It is not a theft that some go to hell.

Peace and Blessings

Then we truly are responsible for our father's sins. Each tiny little senseless baby born today has countless generations of sin to overcome. I am to blame for things my ancestors did that I know nothing about.

I totally disagree with this most basic of ideas. It seems to be entirely backwards to me. The father is responsible for the son, not the other way around. And each individual should pay for his own crimes, not the crimes of those who came before him.

I think this (infants and those who haven't heard of God) is one of the most complex questions in Christianity, and if you ask 5 Christians, you'll get 8 answers.

Perhaps I can shed some more light on this. We have what would be considered a "Immunity time" (for you gamers think the protection of not being able to be killed for a small moment after spawing in many FPSs.) An "Age of Innocence" if you will. During this time, when we are not capable of searching for God (infancy, etc.) we do not have the burden of going to hell. If we die, we go to heaven to be with the Lord. This is the same for certain mentally challenged who are not capable of making a decision on such a grand scale. No one knows the limit of the Age Of Innocence as it varies from the maturity level of each person. The moment you can rationally realise the difference between believing in God, and believing in man, is when that Innocence ends.

Is that theory an accepted Christian belief?
It sounds good to me.
However, I don't know how it jives with the verse "No one comes to the father but by me".
That would seem to include those who are incapable of knowing him.

Greetings,

Remember, we don't stand on one verse. There are always more.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Further, we are chosen to work His good will, to do His rightious works.

Peace and Blessings

Okay, how do you explain the seemingly contradictory verses?
Also, you are using this verse to go against (what seems to me to be) one of the most important verses in Christian dogma.

 

[Macattak1]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: Macattak1


Greetings,

Remember, we don't stand on one verse. There are always more.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Further, we are chosen to work His good will, to do His rightious works.

Peace and Blessings

Originally posted by: ThePresence
However, I don't know how it jives with the verse "No one comes to the father but by me".

You realize that you've essentially attempted to answer his question by restating the very thing he was questioning...don't you?

Greetings,

Perhaps I did? Not sure what your pointing out. Do you mean the one that I specifically replied to or another posts question?

Peace and Blessings