Greetings,
There is not one person that has not known of God. Jesus was before the foundations of the world. He is God, so he has always been there. Man kind has always worshiped something bigger than it simply because they have known through the ages that there has got to be something greater than themselves. But, wether they are capable of believing in a God that has complete and total perfect rightious authority is another question. Few people want to submit to that complete of an authority.
The bible does not teach that after we physically die we are given another chance. The bible teaches that once physically dead that is the end. Heaven or judgement and hell/separation from God.
Even those that died BC are able to come to God through Jesus simply because He is the Great I Am and always was, is, will be.
Peace and Blessings
BudAshes
Lifer
- Jul 20, 2003
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How the fvck should i know how we were were made? If i claimed to know id be taking it on faith and then I'd be no different than these religious folk. We can make guesses but there are things like dark matter and dark energy that are beyond current explanation. Maybe we will never be smart enough to completely understand our environment, or maybe when we do we will be like gods ourselves. But as soon as you start using words like faith, you throw logic out the window. By accepting creationism you are accepting an easy truth. It's a compromise you have made with yourself and you don't even realize it.
No. By throwing around words like dark matter and dark energy as if the volumes proving those can even come near to the volumes written on God by Godly men and women, you're relying on more faith than a Christian ever could.
Creationism isn't an easy truth. I would have a very difficult time trying to reconcile the Bible with theories on evolution. Both sound equally implausible. Fortunately, I don't have to. My faith is in God. What He tells me, I am compelled to believe and obey.
- Sep 21, 2001
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Actually, we believe that you go to hell for the bad things you do. Belief saves you from that. Slight difference.
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 27,727
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I am thoroughly confused now.
Do mean that anyone who worshipped any kind of god throughout the ages is considered saved?
HotChic, you're the type of Christian that I admire. You promote tolerance and love instead of convicting heathens with fire and brimstone. It just goes to show you that not all Christians are alike. That is a sharp contrast to the self-righteous busmaster11. His type always makes me cringe and shake my head. Maybe the fact that I been around enough good behaving Christians, that I developed certain expectations about them.
At one time I hung out with quite a few Christians. My college roommate was a Bible Study leader. He would conduct a Bible Study every Tuesday in our dorm room (he got my approval ahead of time, of course). Quite honestly, he is one of the best people I've ever met in my life. He was well disciplined, smart, honest, sincere, and caring to others. Since he was a good-looking guy he also attracted a lot of girls but did not take advantage of any of them. As a true devout he believed no sex until marriage even though he's surrounded by college horndogs whose mantra is to get drunk and laid as much as possible. Whenever we watched a rated R movie he would fast forward through the gratuitious sex scenes. He has this natural high about life (akin to Ned Flanders), always seem happy, and would play Jesus songs on his guitar during weekend mornings. He maintained excellent grades in class, graduated with a Chemical Engineering degree, and went on to Med school.
This roommate of mine was one of the reason why I got interested in Christianity. I joined his Bible Study as the resident agnostic. We had fun going camping, fishing, hiking, and going on road trips. These people actually knew how to have fun without resorting to binge drinking or playing video games all day unlike my other collegues.
Alas, I could not abandon my agnostic view. Despite all those Bible lessons and encouragement I was still not convinced about Jesus. I wanted to believe as badly as anyone could. The simple fact is I DO NOT choose what I believe. My belief is unfortunately not governed by my desires. I went through a lot of self edification to come to terms with myself. I did come out of the whole experience with much respect for some of the Christians I met. Although they believed differently, they are just as entitled to it as I to mine.
I noticed that most of the ATOT topics concerning Christians lead to a lot of Christian bashing. It's refreshing to see a thread that hasn't deteriate to such debacle. Of course, I don't condone any of the behavior of Christians that typically make the news. But to apply such stereotypical behaviors to all Christians is just ignorant. I just wish the ATOT community would not be so bitter about Christians.
At one time I hung out with quite a few Christians. My college roommate was a Bible Study leader. He would conduct a Bible Study every Tuesday in our dorm room (he got my approval ahead of time, of course). Quite honestly, he is one of the best people I've ever met in my life. He was well disciplined, smart, honest, sincere, and caring to others. Since he was a good-looking guy he also attracted a lot of girls but did not take advantage of any of them. As a true devout he believed no sex until marriage even though he's surrounded by college horndogs whose mantra is to get drunk and laid as much as possible. Whenever we watched a rated R movie he would fast forward through the gratuitious sex scenes. He has this natural high about life (akin to Ned Flanders), always seem happy, and would play Jesus songs on his guitar during weekend mornings. He maintained excellent grades in class, graduated with a Chemical Engineering degree, and went on to Med school.
This roommate of mine was one of the reason why I got interested in Christianity. I joined his Bible Study as the resident agnostic. We had fun going camping, fishing, hiking, and going on road trips. These people actually knew how to have fun without resorting to binge drinking or playing video games all day unlike my other collegues.
Alas, I could not abandon my agnostic view. Despite all those Bible lessons and encouragement I was still not convinced about Jesus. I wanted to believe as badly as anyone could. The simple fact is I DO NOT choose what I believe. My belief is unfortunately not governed by my desires. I went through a lot of self edification to come to terms with myself. I did come out of the whole experience with much respect for some of the Christians I met. Although they believed differently, they are just as entitled to it as I to mine.
I noticed that most of the ATOT topics concerning Christians lead to a lot of Christian bashing. It's refreshing to see a thread that hasn't deteriate to such debacle. Of course, I don't condone any of the behavior of Christians that typically make the news. But to apply such stereotypical behaviors to all Christians is just ignorant. I just wish the ATOT community would not be so bitter about Christians.
:laugh:
You don't have the balls or the intelligence to go there, so don't even try it.
Sure is. There's always a right and a wrong opinion on almost everything.
EDIT: If you are dumb enough to try it, as I suspect you may be, keep it to private messages as it is way off topic.
There are several points to it. One, to get a body. Two, to gain knowledge and understanding. Three, to face trials and to grow from them.
Besides, just because the gospel will be taught to people both here and in the world to come doesn't mean you're exempt. Everyone has the light of Christ in them to some extent. What many refer to as their 'conscience'. Even though you may not know the full gospel doesn't mean you don't know certain things are not right or wrong, and you will be held accountable for those things.
Plus, people who accept the Gospel here have their entire life to grow and develop in their understand and will be far ahead of those who do not hear about it on Earth. Don't mean they'll be better, just means they'll have less work to do.
Greetings,
Ah, sorry if I was not clear enough.
No would be the answer. Requirements are the OT and NT god.
Peace and Blessings. (out to dinner and movie)
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
- 27,727
- 16
- 81
Well then we're back to the original question.Originally posted by: Macattak1
Greetings,
Ah, sorry if I was not clear enough.
No would be the answer. Requirements are the OT and NT god.
Peace and Blessings. (out to dinner and movie)
There are people who have never heard of the OT and of Jesus.
Are they hopeless?
If a Christian wants to rebuke me with Biblical references to back it up, I may learn something - the Lord is my witness that I pray for humility and brokenness.
If a worldly person rebukes me and wants to talk about tolerance and love instead, thats another thing. Jesus Christ Himself never begged anyone to come to Him. All His messages of love were meant for the edification of the hearts of the hearers - not for the temporal good of the world.
He died on the cross for sins as the Jews and Romans mocked Him. Christians are called to be hated. If a believer is popular with the world, he/she needs to examine himself/herself closely.
John 15:18
?If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
John 17:14
I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Edit: No one is comfortable with fire and brimstone. I don't care much for it myself. But show me an example of NT evangelism which did not begin with a call to repentance.
Already debated and as far as "stems from the same reason you claims christians hate, due to their own insecurities," that my friend comes from the intolerence the rest of us experience as we are being told day in and day out we are going to hell because we dont believe. Over and over this is tossed in our faces, yet somehow I am not to believe that the threat of hell is not a major force behind conversions; yeah right.
BudAshes
Lifer
- Jul 20, 2003
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I would looove to get into this with you. But my girlfriend is waiting so hopefully we can pick this up another time. I'm sure this thread will still be rolling tomorrow.
One thing a little off topic: They say marijuana leads to schizophrenia, but i think a lot of people suffer from it and just chalk it up to god talking to them.
I look at nature and how incredible it is and I feel God's presence, so to me, logically, there is something greater than me that created all that wonderful nature and causes that incredible joy I get.
Cerpin Taxt
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 11,940
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Go where? Mormons are even more loony than evangelical Christians. Thats almost common knowledge.
It is a category error to evaluate opinions as right or wrong. Of course, no one ever accused you of being a bastion of intelligence.
Try what? We've already established that you're impervious to reason, and the fact that you've bought into Mormonism confirms that you are a poor judge of facts. What is there to try?
- Jun 10, 2004
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Most Christians I know didn't become Christian because they were "afraid" of Hell or because they were "threatened". Stop being a troll and realize that everything you've said so far is what a small but vocal minority of "evangelical" right-wing reactionary Christians say.
If you're going to rate her from 1-10 on the "fundie" scale, she's pretty far to the left in her beliefs. But then again, "fundies" skew the distribution FAR to the right, because they are so reactionary.
IMO, people get too hung up on evolution versus creationism. I see several options there.
1) You subscribe to the literal 6-day creation by God, everything created then. No evolution
2) You subscribe to a non-literal "6-day" creation
3) You subscribe to an initial creation by God, and then evolution as the mechanism for changes following
4) You subscribe to the Big Bang/Primordial Soup something-out-of-nothing evolutionary view, which requires as much of a leap of faith
5) You ignore the issue of creation versus evolution, because it is not necessary for salvation
6) You realize that evolution and creation are not mutually exclusive
7) You realize that science and religion are definitely not mutually exclusive
This is by no means an all-inclusive list. I'll give you a hint at my stance though - it personally does not matter to me. That said, I'm a Christian who is a Biological Anthropology and Anatomy major + Religion minor. Talk about being well-educated on both sides of the argument...
- Sep 21, 2001
- 18,447
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Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Most Christians I know didn't become Christian because they were "afraid" of Hell or because they were "threatened". Stop being a troll and realize that everything you've said so far is what a small but vocal minority of "evangelical" right-wing reactionary Christians say.
If you're going to rate her from 1-10 on the "fundie" scale, she's pretty far to the left in her beliefs. But then again, "fundies" skew the distribution FAR to the right, because they are so reactionary.
IMO, people get too hung up on evolution versus creationism. I see several options there.
1) You subscribe to the literal 6-day creation by God, everything created then. No evolution
2) You subscribe to a non-literal "6-day" creation
3) You subscribe to an initial creation by God, and then evolution as the mechanism for changes following
4) You subscribe to the Big Bang/Primordial Soup something-out-of-nothing evolutionary view, which requires as much of a leap of faith
5) You ignore the issue of creation versus evolution, because it is not necessary for salvation
6) You realize that evolution and creation are not mutually exclusive
7) You realize that science and religion are definitely not mutually exclusive
This is by no means an all-inclusive list. I'll give you a hint at my stance though - it personally does not matter to me. That said, I'm a Christian who is a Biological Anthropology and Anatomy major + Religion minor. Talk about being well-educated on both sides of the argument...
:heart: this post.
Most Christians are Christians because they were born Christian, just like most Muslims are Muslims because they were born Muslim, etc... The same [generally] holds true as to whether someone is a fundamentalist or not. For example, the children in the documentary Jesus Camp are fundamentalists because their parents are fundamentalists, not because of personal experiences. I obviously don't have statistics to back this up, but I think its quite rare for a person like HotChic to come around and actually map out and think about his/her beliefs. As is evident in this thread, too many people never actually bother to think about their belief system and thus delude themselves with ridiculous ideas. Example: Given some of the passages in the Bible, I am 99% confidant that nobody who has posted in this thread truely follows the Bible literally. Personally, I don't even think its meant to be taken literally.
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Originally posted by: HotChic
Ah, at last we agree on something! Handshake and a happy end to the thread?
Freedomsbeat, why do CHRISTIANS pick and choose what to follow from the Bible, while regarding it as infallible?
I can't answer that question - I don't consider myself Christian. My mother states, whenever I prod her about the contradictions, that you must have a childlike belief in the written word - don't question it, just follow it. I can't follow it myself. That's why I pick what I agree with from the bible and accept it, yet never call myself a Christian.
no where in my post did i say what you should believe. you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe. i just expressed to you what MY beliefs on hell are.
as to
in fact, reading ATOT, the general impression to me is, atheist / agnostics chastise christians more than the other way around.
No, I guess not. My assumption was that since you don't believe in evolution as the means by which man came about you must have something else in mind. Because one of the purposes of your post was to introduce yourself as a christian I (ass)umed that what you had in mind was that man was created by god in some way other than evolution. The only thing that came to mind was creationism, so I (ass)umed that you believed in creationism.
Now that I done making an (ass) out of myself, would you mind telling me what it is that you believe?
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