I’m off the Trump Train

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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
At least half of that enormous list of examples was not specific to transgender people. How much more evidence do you need? You keep saying that the right is beyond their homophobic past. You've just been given plenty of examples of things done by the current administration from the last three years that demonstrate the opposite. You somehow managed to hand-wave away the blatantly homophobic Vice President as somehow not representative of the right. Despite being a prime example of Republican 'values'. You've completely ignored last year's Pew poll where the majority of Republican voters did not support equal rights for gays (marriage).


Much of what you just said isn’t true or is misrepresented though, and yet for some reason you call me the troll. I said I’d read through that list Amused posted in greater detail later and that there probably were anti gay stuff in there, but you pretend that I didn’t. I said republicans don’t seem to be pushing for anti gay legislation from what I could tell, not that they were ok with homosexuality. This ties in with the comfort level post, they don’t like the idea of homosexuality but unless it’s maybe in Amuseds post and I’ll get to it later I don’t see legislation being pushed to restrict homosexual rights. I don’t really see Mike Pence being representative of the right, certainly not the younger members of the right. There’s a different forum I visit that is highly conservative and that’s my primary measuring stick as it’s the closest interaction I have with conservative politics otherwise and most of the guys there don’t agree with Pence's stance toward gays. And I don’t know that I’ve seen the Pew poll about gay rights, was that posted? Only poll thing I remember seeing was about "comfort" with the LGBT community (which also lumps in transgenderism).

So I think you may be misunderstanding me and what I’ve said and what my thoughts and positions are.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
I get what you’re saying and agree with it somewhat, but I do think they are different things though that are lumped together due to some similarities which ignores all of the differences. I don’t think that anyone should be persecuted and that’s not what I’m advocating for, but I also don’t think that normalizing transgenderism is healthy at all and I do see it as being a form of a mental illness.

But you see, when you say they have a mental illness and that it's not healthy to normalize their behavior, you effectively are arguing for persecution. You believe they're inferior. That it's something they should try to "get over," and might disqualify them from participating in certain fields.

Think about it for a moment: would you say that gay, lesbian, bi and pan people are mentally ill and that their behavior shouldn't be normalized? No? Can you explain why not? After all, their sexual orientation likely boils down to genetic differences, just like with transgender people, it's just that it affects their sexual orientation instead of their gender identity. In both cases, they're still mentally stable (outside of what social rejection does to them) and can lead happy, thoroughly normal lives if given the chance.
 
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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
This right here is the problem it’s views like this that make it more difficult for people to be what they feel on the inside. Contributing to trying to make these people feel shame or afraid of who they really are is going to be a significant factor in any real mental issues they develop.


I’m sorry but I’m not going to pretend that it’s not so that they can feel good about themselves. I don’t go out of my way to shame them and I certainly treat any trans person I come across which admittedly is few and far between with the same respect I’d treat anybody else but it is what it is. I don’t shame bipolar people for instance either but that’s different than me pretending that it’s not a mental disorder.

How many times has it been said on here forums conservatism was a mental disease, that’s shaming them for what they feel on the inside but I doubt many take issue with that.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
But you see, when you say they have a mental illness and that it's not healthy to normalize their behavior, you effectively are arguing for persecution. You believe they're inferior. That it's something they should try to "get over," and might disqualify them from participating in certain fields.


I’m not arguing for their persecution, I never said they should "get over" it, and aside from sports what fields have I said they should be disqualified for?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,156
18,647
146
I’m sorry but I’m not going to pretend that it’s not so that they can feel good about themselves. I don’t go out of my way to shame them and I certainly treat any trans person I come across which admittedly is few and far between with the same respect I’d treat anybody else but it is what it is. I don’t shame bipolar people for instance either but that’s different than me pretending that it’s not a mental disorder.

How many times has it been said on here forums conservatism was a mental disease, that’s shaming them for what they feel on the inside but I doubt many take issue with that.

Woah, you mean to say that a different brain isn't necessarily a mental illness, wow....interesting.


Click the links.

What they feel inside? Hmmm...fear is a very primal motivator.

"My feels > your feels" - ugly
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,554
9,905
146
I get what you’re saying and agree with it somewhat, but I do think they are different things though that are lumped together due to some similarities which ignores all of the differences. I don’t think that anyone should be persecuted and that’s not what I’m advocating for, but I also don’t think that normalizing transgenderism is healthy at all and I do see it as being a form of a mental illness.
Yes, you see it that way, but that is an ignorant bigotry, no longer based in scientific reality.

Both the American Psychological Association and the World Health Organization no longer classify it as a form of mental illness, based on the science!

According to the American Psychological Association, "A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder." Moreover, the World Health Organization no longer classifies being transgender as a mental illness.

Here is one key scientific FACT that shows that being transgender is not a mental construct, but a biological FACT.

Male and female brains are structually different, and fascinatingly, studies show that the brain structure and brain activity of transgender people more closely resemble those of their gender identity versus their birth gender. This suggests that sexual differentiation of the brain during the development is not necessarily linked to sexual differentiation of the genitals.

Given this, in light of the fact that your are not a troll and do argue in good faith, I feel confident you will update your views on this matter in order to conform with the science that has moved the American Psychological Association AND the World Health Organization, after long and careful deliberation, to conclude that transgenderism is NOT a mental illness.

The ball is in your court, my friend.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,156
18,647
146
Yes, you see it that way, but that is an ignorant bigotry, no longer based in scientific reality.

Both the American Psychological Association and the World Health Organization no longer classify it as a form of mental illness, based on the science!



Here is one key scientific FACT that shows that being transgender is not a mental construct, but a biological FACT.



Given this, in light of the fact that your are not a troll and do argue in good faith, I feel confident you will update your views on this matter in order to conform with the science that has moved the American Psychological Association AND the World Health Organization, after long and careful deliberation, to conclude that transgenderism is NOT a mental illness.

The ball is in your court, my friend.

/Discussion, I'm done.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,156
18,647
146
Man I unblocked you thinking that maybe the new rules would change things but apparently not. I’m gonna add you back on. I will read through the link later though

Thats on you, if you can't handle the discussion, mute it. Shit brah, there wasn't even any personal attacks or insults. The real irony here is that's it's all about your feels, including putting me on ignore.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Yes, you see it that way, but that is an ignorant bigotry, no longer based in scientific reality.

Both the American Psychological Association and the World Health Organization no longer classify it as a form of mental illness, based on the science!



Here is one key scientific FACT that shows that being transgender is not a mental construct, but a biological FACT.



Given this, in light of the fact that your are not a troll and do argue in good faith, I feel confident you will update your views on this matter in order to conform with the science that has moved the American Psychological Association AND the World Health Organization, after long and careful deliberation, to conclude that transgenderism is NOT a mental illness.

The ball is in your court, my friend.

I’m at work but will read through that when I get off too. So are you saying genders aren’t a societal construct? That seemed to have been the argument this whole time so what changed. And even still doesn’t it mean that we should be ok with radically altering the body to fit whatever it is with the mind?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,554
9,905
146
And even still doesn’t it mean that we should be ok with radically altering the body to fit whatever it is with the mind?
Not the mind, the brain. Biology, bub. A basic biological fact is that a transgender person is a woman/man trapped with the genitals of a man/woman.

And, I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING. The American Psychological Association AND the World Health Organization are saying that transgenderism is NOT a mental illness. You are. Ignorant right wing bigots are. But the medical professionals beg to differ. Does this make any difference to you? If you're neither a bigot or a troll, and are indeed arguing in good faith, it certainly should.

I guess we'll see. We will ALL see.
 

Stryke1983

Member
Jan 1, 2016
176
268
136
Much of what you just said isn’t true or is misrepresented though, and yet for some reason you call me the troll. I said I’d read through that list Amused posted in greater detail later and that there probably were anti gay stuff in there, but you pretend that I didn’t. I said republicans don’t seem to be pushing for anti gay legislation from what I could tell, not that they were ok with homosexuality. This ties in with the comfort level post, they don’t like the idea of homosexuality but unless it’s maybe in Amuseds post and I’ll get to it later I don’t see legislation being pushed to restrict homosexual rights. I don’t really see Mike Pence being representative of the right, certainly not the younger members of the right. There’s a different forum I visit that is highly conservative and that’s my primary measuring stick as it’s the closest interaction I have with conservative politics otherwise and most of the guys there don’t agree with Pence's stance toward gays. And I don’t know that I’ve seen the Pew poll about gay rights, was that posted? Only poll thing I remember seeing was about "comfort" with the LGBT community (which also lumps in transgenderism).

So I think you may be misunderstanding me and what I’ve said and what my thoughts and positions are.

So even though the Republican President, Vice President, Senate Leader and most (probably all) of the most recent Republican Presidential candidates oppose same sex marriage (some even going as far to consider it a mental illness, a lifestyle choice or something so abhorrent that they support breaking the law in order to hinder it) you don't consider that a sign that the right is NOT beyond their issues with gay people. We're not talking about one or two extremists on the fringe of the party. The entire party leadership is on board with it. The mainstream of the party is on board with it. The majority of Republican voters are on board with that discrimination.

You keep conveniently skipping important parts of posts. What more evidence do you need to admit you were wrong? If you don't consider official, mainstream Republican opposition to equal rights for gays to be an indication of an issue with gay people then i don't know what you need as proof.
 
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Stryke1983

Member
Jan 1, 2016
176
268
136
This is a summary of the conversation in this thread recently:

UC: What's the weather like.

Everyone else: it's raining.

UC: Are you sure? I've not noticed that.

Everyone: Look out the window, it's raining.

UC: I still can't see it. Are you really sure it's raining?

Everyone: You can literally see the rain through the window. The window is wet. Everything outside the window is wet. You can hear the sound of the rain. The weather report says it's raining.

UC: I'm not drowning though. I don't see flooding outside. It's probably something other than rain as I can't see any evidence of it.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,527
15,406
136
This thread has gone exactly as predicted.

We have to argue respectfully for 10 pages while the poster in question says his opinion is valid because he feels it’s valid. /eye roll

So how should we handle this? I say we respond to legitimate questions and or concerns and ignore everything else. Basically we'd be posting for the benefit of other readers while ignoring the trolling. Would that work?
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
I don't think that's true at all. It was a binary choice, Trump or Clinton. It's like a kid offered a choice between an apple & an orange who says "I want a banana." when there aren't any.

This notion that she would have somehow been worse than Trump isn't really rational.
I voted for banana. Hopefully one of the big party candidates will adopt some policies to appeal to me and the others who signaled our disgust by voting banana.
 
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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,511
16,225
146
Thank you Amused, I’ve skimmed through that and will read in more detail later. Much of that seems to pertain to transgenders though which is a different thing altogether so not indicative of a push against gay rights.

6 of 20 is much?

LGTBQ. Five letters. Do you know what they stand for? They face the same discrimination from the sane people. Because all are lumped together by bigots. Only separated when convenient.

I see later you try to claim you don't see any anti-gay legislation.

What. The. Fuck.

You have not read my post. Multiple pieces of legislation are listed seeking to roll back protections for gays in many areas of life, this making it legal to discriminate against them openly.

It's literally listed, one by one, for you to read. It's right there.

Take your time. But from now on when one of your posts contradicts that list, you will get that list as your reply. Maybe, eventually, you'll actually read it.
 
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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
This thread has gone exactly as predicted.


Why? Y’all took off topic talking about gays and such which is fine but I’m not supporting a Trump nor going to vote for him and I’d support his impeachment over soliciting foreign governments to help with his election by attacking an opponent. So how has the thread gone as you’d expected.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,090
136
This is a summary of the conversation in this thread recently:

UC: What's the weather like.

Everyone else: it's raining.

UC: Are you sure? I've not noticed that.

Everyone: Look out the window, it's raining.

UC: I still can't see it. Are you really sure it's raining?

Everyone: You can literally see the rain through the window. The window is wet. Everything outside the window is wet. You can hear the sound of the rain. The weather report says it's raining.

UC: I'm not drowning though. I don't see flooding outside. It's probably something other than rain as I can't see any evidence of it.
Isn't that the standard flow for a "UC concern thread?"
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,905
16,171
126
You’re right I wouldn’t vote Trump even in that case. But I do find the shit Bernie's pushing to be the most dangerous thing facing this country.


So, you would rather keep the one percent on top rather than get universal healthcare for everyone. Ok...