Do you think Trumps efforts to build the wall are motivated by a desire to save US citizens from rapists, drugs, and loss of jobs or is animated by the drive to and the pleasure of fucking over people he sees as inferiors, like separating kids from their mothers? Is he a patriot or a psychopath. How about the promise of a wild time at the capitol on Jan 6. Was that about a stolen election or the hoped for murder of the VP and Congress?Especially considering his background I think it portrays an astonishing lack of insight into the human psyche. On the other hand, given what we've seen of Jordan in the public media and his self promotion on various topics it is really not super surprising.
Just reflecting on recent events its obvious that the human psyche is capable of attaining almost any perspective or realty construct, one of our super gifts is that of rationalization, I dont see how its not a valid possibility that Adolf, in his heart, felt like his legacy and good deed for the world, taking one for the team, would be to rid the world of Jews on his way down.
Jordan is right that you cant *assume*, but it sounds to me like he *assumes* otherwise.
The wall was neither, as it didn’t really fuck over any immigrants. It was at most a minor inconvenience. The wall was about displaying contempt and dominance over people he viewed as inferior. The results were far less important than the perception.Do you think Trumps efforts to build the wall are motivated by a desire to save US citizens from rapists, drugs, and loss of jobs or is animated by the drive to and the pleasure of fucking over people he sees as inferiors, like separating kids from their mothers? Is he a patriot or a psychopath. How about the promise of a wild time at the capitol on Jan 6. Was that about a stolen election or the hoped for murder of the VP and Congress?
He just wants attention and to put his name on things and to make as much money off his name as possible no matter how many people it hurts.Do you think Trumps efforts to build the wall are motivated by a desire to save US citizens from rapists, drugs, and loss of jobs or is animated by the drive to and the pleasure of fucking over people he sees as inferiors, like separating kids from their mothers? Is he a patriot or a psychopath. How about the promise of a wild time at the capitol on Jan 6. Was that about a stolen election or the hoped for murder of the VP and Congress?
I’m not sure why this guy is so hard for people to understand. He doesn’t care about results, he doesn’t care about what actually happens in the real world almost at all. What he cares about is how it looks and how people perceive it.
The analysis I saw was that Hitler was more evil than you think, because it was never about winning but destroying. The irrational treatment of the Jews, not optimally efficient for winning is only to illustrate that point. Perhaps the ‘you’ he was referring to IS you. Perhaps some prior conclusions about Peterson affected how you viewed his analysis. I don’t know but I can ask what you think he is posing for.A pretty basic failure in his analysis is the idea that if Germany had devoted fewer resources to the Holocaust they could have won the war. By the point he’s talking about the war was already lost.
So really the choice was:
1) lose the war and not kill any Jews or:
2) lose the war more quickly and kill millions of Jews.
Jordan Peterson is a poseur.
The wall was neither, as it didn’t really fuck over any immigrants. It was at most a minor inconvenience. The wall was about displaying contempt and dominance over people he viewed as inferior. The results were far less important than the perception.
I’m not sure why this guy is so hard for people to understand. He doesn’t care about results, he doesn’t care about what actually happens in the real world almost at all. What he cares about is how it looks and how people perceive it. For example with COVID if you asked him if 10 million would die but he would be revered as a hero vs. nobody dying and him being hated he would go with the 10 million dead, without question.
I thought that is what I said. I would say the understanding lies not so much the results but the intention.The wall was about displaying contempt and dominance over people he viewed as inferior. The results were far less important than the perception.
There can be a difference in the capacity of people even if the intentions are the same, I would think.This.
If giving brown people citizenship got him what he wanted, he would have made a bigger gold-plated statue of liberty in Mar-a-lago and ushered Cubans and whomever else into the country, bragging about being the bigliest immigration demigod their ever was and how the evil conservatives won't let America be great again.
Trump only cares about what personally affects him. He doesn't care about the proud boys, or black people, or his family, or anything else that doesn't directly affect his bullshit existence.
Hitler had an actual (and terrifying vision) of what he wanted the world to be. Trump is just a basic bitch grifter who naturally attracts idiots and psychopaths.
Right, and I’m saying his analysis was wrong and he seems to lack a basic understanding of the topic, which is par for the course for him. First and foremost, he vastly overestimates the resources expended by Germany on the Holocaust and the relative gains that would have been there from enslaving rather than killing. (Slave labor work was not efficient and was often subject to sabotage for obvious reasons)The analysis I saw was that Hitler was more evil than you think, because it was never about winning but destroying. The irrational treatment of the Jews, not optimally efficient for winning is only to illustrate that point. Perhaps the ‘you’ he was referring to IS you. Perhaps some prior conclusions about Peterson affected how you viewed his analysis. I don’t know but I can ask what you think he is posing for.
Like I have said before you lack a basic understanding of how humans work. Really, what you’re doing is similar to Peterson, which is maybe why you were attracted to it.I posted this because I see the rising fascism on the right today as motivated by hatred, a death wish for Armageddon based on self hate that can succeed only if we deny we are all infected with it.
I am perfectly aware, however, that you have no idea how evil we are and there is little to nothing I can do about it. The issue will be Peterson or something else, anything else.
No offense. You is also me.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand Trump. The intention is not to fuck over immigrants either, at least that is not the primary intention. His goal is to display dominance and receive adulation and so the benefits or harms are largely irrelevant.I thought that is what I said. I would say the understanding lies not so much the results but the intention.
Do you think Trumps efforts to build the wall are motivated by a desire to save US citizens from rapists, drugs, and loss of jobs or is animated by the drive to and the pleasure of fucking over people he sees as inferiors, like separating kids from their mothers? Is he a patriot or a psychopath. How about the promise of a wild time at the capitol on Jan 6. Was that about a stolen election or the hoped for murder of the VP and Congress?
A pretty basic failure in his analysis is the idea that if Germany had devoted fewer resources to the Holocaust they could have won the war. By the point he’s talking about the war was already lost.
So really the choice was:
1) lose the war and not kill any Jews or:
2) lose the war more quickly and kill millions of Jews.
Jordan Peterson is a poseur.
I think Peterson was trying to explain the reason the logic was flawed, that the real motive was evil and not morally justified, that it was not to throw off some imaginary oppressive yoke, but to delight in torture.Integral to the Nazi belief system was the "stabbed in the back" myth. That Germany was winning WWI but lost only because the Jews forced the Armistice on them. So by this logic (flawed as it was), the Nazis believed the Holocaust was necessary for them to win the war.
How well are we prepared to face what we may actually be facing?
What if awareness is just too much for most people to handle?
I think Peterson was trying to explain the reason the logic was flawed, that the real motive was evil and not morally justified, that it was not to throw off some imaginary oppressive yoke, but to delight in torture.
I do not understand the connection between the Nazi reaction to music, art, and sex, or generally progressive cultural movements of the times and a critique that focuses on extremism that pushes classical liberalism toward authoritarian insistence it’s voice alone should be heard.Do you know who else besides Jordan Peterson liked to use the term "cultural marxism" to describe social equality?
Hitler.
Edit: to clarify, Hitler and the Nazis used the term "Cultural Bolshevism," but it's the same thing.
I think Peterson was trying to explain the reason the logic was flawed, that the real motive was evil and not morally justified, that it was not to throw off some imaginary oppressive yoke, but to delight in torture.
I continue to be amazed at your failure to see Jordan Peterson for the closet Nazi sympathizer that he so obviously is.I do not understand the connection between the Nazi reaction to music, art, and sex, or generally progressive cultural movements of the times and a critique that focuses on extremism that pushes classical liberalism toward authoritarian insistence it’s voice alone should be heard.
I am as exercised about cultural Marxism as I am about right winged fascism because the country seems bent on the latter, but the right as it grows will more and more create what it fears and what everyone else should too. Real social equality, I think, is blind tolerance. Intolerance can wear any political stripe, seems to me.
If there are Nazis running rampant in America, then I take it the desired response is to NOT live with them. Not maintain a civil society with them in it. Instead, I believe you raise this topic to declare a need to kill said Nazis. Am I correct in the premise?
Let's not underestimate the value of propaganda. Scapegoating has immense value from an organizing perspective. Once he said the war wasn't about resources, well, I'd venture he doesn't teach history.
What if awareness is just too much for most people to handle?
Germany lost the war as soon as they started it. They didn’t have the resources, personnel or economic capability to extend their rule all of Europe for any lengthy period of time. Hitler surprisingly bowed out of the fight with England showing the weakness of the 'reich' at its first turn. When He attacked Russia, he ensured a that Germany would suffer a humiliating defeat. When the US entered the war in Europe, Germany had absolutely no reason to hope. They would suffer the full impact of a war just as they had inflicted on the rest of Europe - nearly utter destruction. This is all clear in hindsight.Uh Germany was totally boned by the end of 1941 when the US entered the war, Barbarossa stalled short of its objectives with the Russians starting to reverse them, and the Blitz failed to make the British roll over complete with the neutering of the Luftwaffe as an effective force. Granted Hitler didn't see it that way but the facts are the facts. No amount of slave labor would have changed the ultimate outcome.
The only real question was what would it cost.