How to improve flat bench press?

[996GT2]

It seems like I've been stuck at a 5x5x185 bench for quite a few months now, and I don't really know how to improve it. On some days I'll feel pretty good after doing a 5x5 set at 185, but on other days I just feel weak by the last set.

My decline press and incline press have been improving (I'm doing 5x5x190 or 195 on declines now and 5x5x175 or 180 on incline bench)...but my flat bench seems to be stuck. I also feel much better after doing a set of declines or inclines than I do after a set of flat bench.

I've been working on my seated overhead press too...today I finished a set of 5x5x135 and felt pretty good afterwards. Needed a bit of help on the last rep of the 5th set, but otherwise everything was good.

How can I improve my flat bench? Would alternating decline bench+2 days off/incline bench+2 days off/flat bench+2 days off help?

 

[The Sauce]

I would try to vary the rep range. Some days go for 10, some days go for 1-3..with a spotter. Switch up and use dumbells. Add in some weighted dips. Change your grip. Do a whole day of flys and cables. The key to breaking through plateaus is changing things up.

 

[brikis98]

So... are you just doing a 5x5 with 185 every time... or did you actually try to do a 5x5 with 190 and fail?

 

[SlitheryDee]

Are you actually finishing the 5x5? You're supposed to go up when you're able to finish it. Don't wait until it gets ridiculously easy to finish it. More weight = more muscle stimulation. When you're getting close to your limit a 5x5 gets pretty grueling. It's supposed to be that way.

 

[Howard]

You're supposed to put on 5 lbs every workout for SL 5x5. You know, right?

"Well, maybe you just don't know how to fucking bench." - Dave Tate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3t6T-nqP0

 

[bommy261]

"Well, maybe you just don't know how to fucking bench." - Dave Tate

Dave Tate is the man... hells to the ya

 

[McWatt]

I love adblock. Custom image filters mean I no longer have to look at the more hideous avatars. There goes your shock value, bommy.

It's also nice to not have to see Rudder's pedophilic avatar. :sneaky:

 

[bommy261]

I love adblock. Custom image filters mean I no longer have to look at the more hideous avatars. There goes your shock value, bommy.

It's also nice to not have to see Rudder's pedophilic avatar. :sneaky:

All my power is gone... damn u!

 

[polarmystery]

You're supposed to put on 5 lbs every workout for SL 5x5. You know, right?

"Well, maybe you just don't know how to fucking bench." - Dave Tate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3t6T-nqP0

See bolded. You are supposed to add 5lbs to the next workout if you can complete a 5x5 set without failing. If you fail at 190, you are supposed to try 5x5 at 190 until after three exercises you still fail, then drop the weight by 10% and continue adding 5lbs then.

 

[The Sauce]

I learned a lot from that Tate video. Guess I just didn't know how to fucking bench. Very cool. Can't wait to try it out.

 

[skace]

I'll tag this for the tate video even though I dumbbell bench.

 

[Bulldog13]

Start doin heavy back.

 

[darkxshade]

For someone who's not aiming for PRs, at what point should they stop increasing weights? I'm 170lbs and have been benching 225 for that last couple months... I can complete 5x5 regularly but I'm not sure if I should aim higher.

 

[ZOOYUKA]

Eat!

 

[brikis98]

For someone who's not aiming for PRs, at what point should they stop increasing weights? I'm 170lbs and have been benching 225 for that last couple months... I can complete 5x5 regularly but I'm not sure if I should aim higher.

What are your goals? That is, why are you doing bench press?

 

[The Sauce]

For someone who's not aiming for PRs, at what point should they stop increasing weights? I'm 170lbs and have been benching 225 for that last couple months... I can complete 5x5 regularly but I'm not sure if I should aim higher.

If you're not getting bigger, you're getting smaller.

 

[darkxshade]

What are your goals? That is, why are you doing bench press?

My previous goal was to cut to 170lbs which I accomplished before new years. I currently don't have a clearly defined goal but I was thinking I might try for a six pack since I've never had it and I'm currently in the best shape of my life so it's now or never.

Thus I'm currently cutting fat and tweaking diet as necessary. I know I should be lifting heavy to preserve muscle while being on a caloric deficit and all that jazz and what I'm doing is probably counter to that age old adage but my question still has some validity, that is... does it always have to be about PRs or constantly aiming for more strength with higher weights, or pushing limits?

Supposedly it's somewhat a mental game for me... my thinking is that I do a full body workout 3x/week[cardio aside]. I figure there are many areas where I can improve on, least of which is the bench as I feel... at least for myself that 225 is respectable enough @ 170lbs. So I continue to bench 5x5x225 at least for the time being to preserve the strength gains up to this point but I save my energy[from going up] to work on other areas where I'm lacking like the squats which you might already know about since I made a thread about my lack of hip flexibility. Basically I don't want to drain myself on the bench leaving me weaker for other compound lifts. I know they don't work the same muscle groups but there is still somewhat of a decreased energy availability from workout to workout for me at least. I always bench first too as it's IMO the one where I'm most vulnerable[bar droppage] so I don't put myself in a position where it may happen at the end of the workout where I'm more tired. Does that make any sense?

 

[brikis98]

Thus I'm currently cutting fat and tweaking diet as necessary. I know I should be lifting heavy to preserve muscle while being on a caloric deficit and all that jazz and what I'm doing is probably counter to that age old adage but my question still has some validity, that is... does it always have to be about PRs or constantly aiming for more strength with higher weights, or pushing limits?

The body adapts exactly and specifically to the stimulus you present it with. For example, the adaptations to lifting heavy weights include increased muscle mass, bone density, neural efficiency, etc. However, if you keep lifting the same weight with the same number of reps/sets/timing/etc, your body will adapt to handling that weight and no further. In other words, if you aren't increasing the stimulus by going for higher weights, your body will not produce any more adaptations.

So, if your goal is just to maintain the exact same amount of muscle mass, strength, etc you have now... Sure, keep benching 225. If you do want to get stronger/bigger/whatever, up the weight.

Supposedly it's somewhat a mental game for me... my thinking is that I do a full body workout 3x/week[cardio aside]. I figure there are many areas where I can improve on, least of which is the bench as I feel... at least for myself that 225 is respectable enough @ 170lbs. So I continue to bench 5x5x225 at least for the time being to preserve the strength gains up to this point but I save my energy[from going up] to work on other areas where I'm lacking like the squats which you might already know about since I made a thread about my lack of hip flexibility. Basically I don't want to drain myself on the bench leaving me weaker for other compound lifts. I know they don't work the same muscle groups but there is still somewhat of a decreased energy availability from workout to workout for me at least. I always bench first too as it's IMO the one where I'm most vulnerable[bar droppage] so I don't put myself in a position where it may happen at the end of the workout where I'm more tired. Does that make any sense?

Sounds like you are just setting up mental barriers for yourself. There is no doubt that you do fatigue as the workout goes on, but a 5x5 of bench press shouldn't affect your squat/deadlift/etc that much. Also, if you are doing SL 5x5 or a similar routine, bench press is usually wedged in the middle of two lower body exercises: for example, doing bench in between squats and deadlifts lets your legs and back rest a little bit. Moving bench press first may actually be very counter-productive to your lower body strength goals by putting squats and deadlifts back to back.

 

[darkxshade]

You're right about setting up mental barriers but isn't it fair to maintain a lift while you let others catch up before you move forward? I'm not saying I'm not going to try for higher PRs sometime in the future but right now my priorities are elsewhere, I figure there's no harm in setting benching aside in terms of pushing for new limits while I let laggards catch up. My squatting for example is a sad 5x5x185 and where I think I need to focus my efforts. Once I feel I am well rounded, I will probably try for higher ranges.

My other question was simply out of innocent curiosity... that obviously we all have limits so at what point does one draw the line, what do you do then? I don't want to over-reach[not that I am]... but is it really as simple as just adding 5lbs to the load once you achieve 5x5.


edit:
I guess you can say I have a secondary goal which is something along the lines of "reach 225 benching, 225 squats, etc, etc". Which is why I stopped at 225 bench because that goal is complete, once I complete the rest of my goals in terms of achieving loads, I will set new goals for the entire lot of lifts. It's just that you reach some goals faster than others.

 

[brikis98]

You're right about setting up mental barriers but isn't it fair to maintain a lift while you let others catch up before you move forward? I'm not saying I'm not going to try for higher PRs sometime in the future but right now my priorities are elsewhere, I figure there's no harm in setting benching aside in terms of pushing for new limits while I let laggards catch up. My squatting for example is a sad 5x5x185 and where I think I need to focus my efforts. Once I feel I am well rounded, I will probably try for higher ranges.

It's your body and your goals, so as long as you are aware of what you are doing, you can prioritize things however you want.

Having said that, I personally see little reason to hold back one lift just so others can be more "proportional." If your bench press was giving you shoulder issues and you needed your row strength to catch up... then sure, it makes sense to hold back. But just holding it back because your squat hasn't caught up is focusing too much on arbitrary numbers. Moreover, upper body exercises (bench, OH press) typically stall out before lower body exercises (squat, deadlift), so even if you kept increasing your bench, it'll eventually slow down and be passed by your squat anyway. Finally, continuing to strengthen your bench press has benefits for the other exercises as well: not only does it directly help your OH press, push-ups, dips, etc, but as your BP goes up, you get better at stabilizing your upper body and core, which carries over to just about every other exercise (even the squat).

My other question was simply out of innocent curiosity... that obviously we all have limits so at what point does one draw the line, what do you do then? I don't want to over-reach[not that I am]... but is it really as simple as just adding 5lbs to the load once you achieve 5x5.

First of all, don't worry about reaching your limits. You have a *LONG* way to go before you are anywhere near what your body can tolerate. Second, adding 5lbs all the time is only possible while in beginner territory. Long before you get to your genetic limit, you'll find that beginner programming will stop working for you. At that point, you'll need to go to more advanced (periodized) training routines where you set PR's much less frequently. Intermediate athletes set PR's once a week or so; advanced athletes, once per month (or less). Third, just how far you should push yourself depends entirely on your goals.

 

[darkxshade]

Interesting view, thanks.

I'm certainly not looking to get into any advanced athlete status, I'm just doing this to stay in shape, be healthy mostly. Which is why I'm not overly concerned with setting records and reaching new limits although it can't be avoided if I want to reach my current goals to have to push harder. And since I'm not aiming to be at a competitive level, there will be a point where I'm 100% satisfied with where I am, where goals is just to maintain. Would you say then that it would be a fair decision to just constantly maintain lifts instead of going for maxes? That's not to say I still couldn't try but I think for most people, they get to a point where they feel where they're at is good enough and see no reason to keep going. That's the kind of feeling I get sometimes. I see some people at the gym pushing hard for new limits and I'm happy for them but at the same time I tell myself, I'm never going to need to be able to do that, I shouldn't even try. Sounds stupid I know but it makes sense to me in some twisted kind of way. :\

 

[brikis98]

Interesting view, thanks.

I'm certainly not looking to get into any advanced athlete status, I'm just doing this to stay in shape, be healthy mostly. Which is why I'm not overly concerned with setting records and reaching new limits although it can't be avoided if I want to reach my current goals to have to push harder. And since I'm not aiming to be at a competitive level, there will be a point where I'm 100% satisfied with where I am, where goals is just to maintain. Would you say then that it would be a fair decision to just constantly maintain lifts instead of going for maxes? That's not to say I still couldn't try but I think for most people, they get to a point where they feel where they're at is good enough and see no reason to keep going. That's the kind of feeling I get sometimes. I see some people at the gym pushing hard for new limits and I'm happy for them but at the same time I tell myself, I'm never going to need to be able to do that, I shouldn't even try. Sounds stupid I know but it makes sense to me in some twisted kind of way. :\

Remember, unless you are a competitive weightlifter, lifting weights is just a tool you use to help you achieve your goals. You keep adding weight to the bar because that is what makes you stronger/bigger/faster/whatever and not just because the arbitrary number is actually important. If your goals change and lifting heavy no longer helps them, then there is no point in spending time on it.

For now, it sounds like your goals are just to "get in shape", for which strength training is immensely useful. However, there are many other aspects to fitness that are worth working on as well - see What is Fitness? for a good discussion. As you accomplish your goals, you'll probably start to form new ones and at that point, you'll be able to decide if going heavier will be useful or not.

 

[darkxshade]

TBH having read some of your journal entries and CF threads, I have some interest in doing some CF workouts once I've reached my goals. Not talking about 100% taking on CF but I was quite captivated by some of their WODs that I might take some on as a challenge to break the monotony of doing the same things 3x/week as a way to stay interested so that I don't fall off the wagon so to speak. In the meantime, it's strength training for lower bf.

 

[brikis98]

TBH having read some of your journal entries and CF threads, I have some interest in doing some CF workouts once I've reached my goals. Not talking about 100% taking on CF but I was quite captivated by some of their WODs that I might take some on as a challenge to break the monotony of doing the same things 3x/week as a way to stay interested so that I don't fall off the wagon so to speak. In the meantime, it's strength training for lower bf.

CF is a lot of fun and lots of people on this messageboard do it. The variety is great, as you can go for months without repeating a workout. It's definitely worth a try, especially if you can find an affiliate to join: access to quality instructors, proper equipment and a supportive community can make a huge difference.

 

[darkxshade]

CF is a lot of fun and lots of people on this messageboard do it. The variety is great, as you can go for months without repeating a workout. It's definitely worth a try, especially if you can find an affiliate to join: access to quality instructors, proper equipment and a supportive community can make a huge difference.

That's another thing, while being able to join an affiliate would be great, there aren't really any that are conveniently located. My gym is a block from work so that I'm able to go during lunch. Not to fond of paying for a 2nd membership either though but from what I've seen CF gyms are pretty sweet. I especially love the bumper plates, not being able to drop weights at my gym is a pain sometimes, you can really get hurt trying to set heavy weights down instead of dropping them. Anyway that's another story altogether and I'll cross that bridge when I get there. :\