The law enforcement officer created the situation, not the guy driving the car. They stopped him for a completley arbitrary reason without probable cause. I probably wouldn't be cooperative in this situation, either. I dislike illegal immigration as much as anyone, but this is not the way to deal with it.
How is asking LEO if you are being detained disrepectful? So what if he has other videos you think he only drove on that road once.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Like I said, I somewhat agree with that but outside of that issue - the guy was a grade A asshole who was trying to provoke the agents into doing something for him to get on film.
The guy is basically a tool. I don't like random checkpoints, but if this is close to the border, I don't have a huge problem with it. All things considered I think the border agent actually handled herself fairly well.
That's not what I saw. I saw a guy who knew his rights and was demonstrating the proper way to handle that situation for others who might watch his video. If a cop pulls me over and asks to search my car for no reason, should I just bend over and let him do it? Hell no. I should stick to my guns (figuratively speaking, of course
) and demand a warrant or probable cause. Not ceding rights does not make someone an asshole.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
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Since only Rainsford and bctbct had the gumption to come out and admit it, I am going to assume that the rest of you who are complaining about these CBP checkpoints ALSO object to drunk-driver checkpoints all over the entire country.
AFAIC, there is absolutely no difference between the two types of checkpoints. One catches drunks, and the other catches illegal immigrants -- two very serious crimes. The USSC has ruled that these types of checkpoints are perfectly legal, so the only conclusion we can draw is that the man making the videos is a total and complete jackass.
/thread
AFAIC, there is absolutely no difference between the two types of checkpoints. One catches drunks, and the other catches illegal immigrants -- two very serious crimes. The USSC has ruled that these types of checkpoints are perfectly legal, so the only conclusion we can draw is that the man making the videos is a total and complete jackass.
/thread
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
- 81
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
That's not what I saw. I saw a guy who knew his rights and was demonstrating the proper way to handle that situation for others who might watch his video. If a cop pulls me over and asks to search my car for no reason, should I just bend over and let him do it? Hell no. I should stick to my guns (figuratively speaking, of course
I agree.
But no one should hold anything against the BP agents, as they are only doing their job and what they are told to do. And, yeah, I think they did their job well in regards to what I assume they are told to do.
Blame the policy, change the laws if you don't agree with them, whatever. But no, I would not fault someone for sticking up for their rights.
I consider this kind of incident, basically, civil non-violent protest.
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
- 81
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Since only Rainsford and bctbct had the gumption to come out and admit it, I am going to assume that the rest of you who are complaining about these CBP checkpoints ALSO object to drunk-driver checkpoints all over the entire country.
AFAIC, there is absolutely no difference between the two types of checkpoints. One catches drunks, and the other catches illegal immigrants -- two very serious crimes. The USSC has ruled that these types of checkpoints are perfectly legal, so the only conclusion we can draw is that the man making the videos is a total and complete jackass.
/thread
You can call him a jackass if you want, I'm sure he cares not.
But what you cannot call him is a criminal.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Since only Rainsford and bctbct had the gumption to come out and admit it, I am going to assume that the rest of you who are complaining about these CBP checkpoints ALSO object to drunk-driver checkpoints all over the entire country.
AFAIC, there is absolutely no difference between the two types of checkpoints. One catches drunks, and the other catches illegal immigrants, drug dealers, potential terrorists, etc -- all very serious crimes. The USSC has ruled that these types of checkpoints are perfectly legal, so the only conclusion we can draw is that the man making the videos is a total and complete jackass.
/thread
You can call him a jackass if you want, I'm sure he cares not.
But what you cannot call him is a criminal.
...and I never did.
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Since only Rainsford and bctbct had the gumption to come out and admit it, I am going to assume that the rest of you who are complaining about these CBP checkpoints ALSO object to drunk-driver checkpoints all over the entire country.
AFAIC, there is absolutely no difference between the two types of checkpoints. One catches drunks, and the other catches illegal immigrants -- two very serious crimes. The USSC has ruled that these types of checkpoints are perfectly legal, so the only conclusion we can draw is that the man making the videos is a total and complete jackass.
/thread
Indeed. Even though I disagree with the idea of random checkpoints in general, there are ways to oppose the idea besides turning it into a war between citizens and police. I'm a little rusty on my constitutional law, but I'm pretty sure random border patrol agents don't get a vote in Congress or a seat on the judicial bench. The people writing and interpreting the laws are the folks who need to do something, random border patrol agents can't change the law.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
- 432
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
Since only Rainsford and bctbct had the gumption to come out and admit it, I am going to assume that the rest of you who are also complaining about these CBP checkpoints ALSO object to drunk-driver checkpoints all over the entire country.
AFAIC, there is absolutely no difference between the two types of checkpoints. One catches drunks, and the other catches illegal immigrants -- two very serious crimes. The USSC has ruled that these types of checkpoints are perfectly legal, so the only conclusion we can draw is that the man making the videos is a total and complete jackass.
/thread
I also object to drunk-driver checkpoints, and while I was still a member of a political party tried to have them outlawed. I don't appreciate or agree with a "test them all, maybe we'll get lucky and nail one" style of policing. It's lazy policing, and an affront to my rights.
The guy is far from a jackass, though I admit his constant repetition quickly began to grate on my nerves. I wish there were more people like him out there. I wish there were more people like the officer out there too, though I also wish she refused to work in that despicable role - she was extremely professional.
Frankly, I don't give a fuck how "serious" the crime is or if the nation's highest court has given it the seal of approval if it leads to policing methods like this. Why don't we just interdict people as they cross major streets and detain a random group of ten people out of a thousand to see if they've committed theft or have murdered someone recently? Hey, as long as it's potentially stopping a serious crime and the courts allow it, right? What horrid logic.
Edit: Grammar.
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Since only Rainsford and bctbct had the gumption to come out and admit it, I am going to assume that the rest of you who are complaining about these CBP checkpoints ALSO object to drunk-driver checkpoints all over the entire country.
AFAIC, there is absolutely no difference between the two types of checkpoints. One catches drunks, and the other catches illegal immigrants -- two very serious crimes. The USSC has ruled that these types of checkpoints are perfectly legal, so the only conclusion we can draw is that the man making the videos is a total and complete jackass.
/thread
What difference does it make if they are legal or not? It is equally legal for the people going thru the checkpoints to practice civil disobedience and try and make them useless.
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Since only Rainsford and bctbct had the gumption to come out and admit it, I am going to assume that the rest of you who are complaining about these CBP checkpoints ALSO object to drunk-driver checkpoints all over the entire country.
AFAIC, there is absolutely no difference between the two types of checkpoints. One catches drunks, and the other catches illegal immigrants -- two very serious crimes. The USSC has ruled that these types of checkpoints are perfectly legal, so the only conclusion we can draw is that the man making the videos is a total and complete jackass.
/thread
I dont know how the USSC has ruled, after watching the numerous vidoes and how the agents reacted to being challenged, apparently they have no enforcement power.
So like I said before, they are a waste of time.....like the other things this administration has enacted to "protect us"
If you want to be a sheep palehorse, carry on.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 66,260
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I kept hoping she would have sent him over for a full inspection, including a strip and cavity search...then, dismantle his van because, "our drug sniffing dog" indicated the presence of an illegal substance.
I'm one of the horrible bastards who thinks our country doesn't do nearly enough to stop the illegal invasion, and support these checkpoints.
I'm one of the horrible bastards who thinks our country doesn't do nearly enough to stop the illegal invasion, and support these checkpoints.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
uhh, that's exactly what this is... this is ONE of the many measures put in place in response to a commonly used tactic -- illegals hitching rides 15 miles over the border.
How the hell can we lock down the border if you don't allow our agents to do anything effective!?
Let's see, if many people here had their way... the CBP couldn't:
A) shoot at armed illegals on our side of the border, even in self-defense -- hell, the national guard troops down there can't even carry ammo! :Q
B) setup checkpoints to look for trucks filled with illegals, or those who may have hitched a ride after crossing offroad.
C) ask anyone for some form of U.S. ID -- even drivers!
D) take too much time to search people and vehicles at the border itself -- we wouldnt want to inconvenience Joe Sixpack now, would we?!
Just WTF would you have them do to actually "tighten it up"? perhaps they could just walk around and stare with a menacing scowl at everyone...!??!
seriously...
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I'm appalled that this guy is blamed for being a "jackass" in the video. He was illegally stopped by law enforcement officials. Anything else in this scenario doesn't matter.
I had a German roommate went on a road trip to L.A. after he finished his PhD. He was cruising along the northern edge of New Mexico (which is far more than 20 miles from the border) and came across one of these check points. He was almost deported because he didn't have his passport or visa papers with him. The only reason he wasn't was because he explained his situation and had the BP agent call the university and try to get him to fax the visa papers to the BP, which the university refused to do (privacy issues
Bottom line: law enforcement should not have the ability to stop me in my car without probable cause. We are no longer the "land of the free" when I have to produce my papers every time I drive down the interstate. I know that the US Supreme Court (or at least lesser courts) have supported law enforcement's right to run DUI checkpoints, but I vehemently disagree with these decisions.
We live in a guilty until proven innocent society now.
First off, the guy is a tool, secondly the BP checkpoint stop has been ruled by SCOTA to be constitutional. Third, it is ILLEGAL to photograph U.S. security areas (you can be arrested and fined or imprisoned for doing so without authorization), and the camera could have been erased or even seized under the law. Until the Jackass declared his citizenship, he had ZERO rights to cross the checkpoint. The responsibility to prove citizenship lies with the applicant, and not the govt. as ruled by SCOTA. All he had to do was declare himself a U.S. citizen, whip out a passport, turn off the camera and in less than five seconds would have been on his way. Deliberately antagonize or act suspicious and you get what you deserve. While the officer was dealing with this idiot, she had no time to be chasing criminals.
Was the guy an illegal? Likely not. Was he carrying drugs? Who knows? Did he act like a criminal Yup! It is routine for illegals and/or smugglers of whatecver to play word games with officers.
As far aas speaking English...speaking english is no guarantee of birth place. Virtually everyone on both sides of my family speak english without an accent, yet more than a few can claim citizenship outside of the U.S.
When I worked the Texas Border, this tool would have been secondaried to erase the camera and declare his citizenship to some other officer with more time to listen to his drivel.
next time a cop asks a simple question....answer it, don't be an ass, and you'll be gone in five or less seconds.
Was the guy an illegal? Likely not. Was he carrying drugs? Who knows? Did he act like a criminal Yup! It is routine for illegals and/or smugglers of whatecver to play word games with officers.
As far aas speaking English...speaking english is no guarantee of birth place. Virtually everyone on both sides of my family speak english without an accent, yet more than a few can claim citizenship outside of the U.S.
When I worked the Texas Border, this tool would have been secondaried to erase the camera and declare his citizenship to some other officer with more time to listen to his drivel.
next time a cop asks a simple question....answer it, don't be an ass, and you'll be gone in five or less seconds.
- Aug 23, 2003
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Check for citizenship at the port of entry.
How hard is that to understand? Random searches, traffic stops, and checkpoints are against everything this country stands for.
It's a slippery slope. Give them an inch, and soon you'll be going through TSA-like checkpoints twice a day, everyday, just to "keep us safe".
This guy was not being stopped at the border; he was well north of it. I don't care if I'm a mile north of the border, or 1500 miles north of the border, it's completely wrong to setup random immigration checkpoints.
How hard is that to understand? Random searches, traffic stops, and checkpoints are against everything this country stands for.
It's a slippery slope. Give them an inch, and soon you'll be going through TSA-like checkpoints twice a day, everyday, just to "keep us safe".
This guy was not being stopped at the border; he was well north of it. I don't care if I'm a mile north of the border, or 1500 miles north of the border, it's completely wrong to setup random immigration checkpoints.
What a loser that guy was. Get a life! Sounded like a 3 year old repeating himself 20028370234 times.
Maybe being within 100 miles is enough for probable cause? I live on the Canadian border, we deal with the same thing.
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