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P4man

Senior member
Aug 27, 2010
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It didn't. Whites got murdered and their property taken away, top ranking in rapes and murders... it turned into a hell.

SA already was hell before the end of apartheid. It definately has its problems now, mostly crime and aids, but there hasnt been a bloodpath of the oppressors and oppression of blacks hasnt been replaced with oppression of whites.
Arabs attacked the Jewish minorities in their countries, forcing them to flee. Jews left billions of dollars worth of property behind. What compensation is there for them?
Whatever compensation you think they are entitled to, you should get from the perpetrators, not from the Palestinians. But Im not aware of millions of Jewish refugees who are still barred from returning to their homes.

Remember the Arab reaction to the partition plan? It was very subtle, a combined attack of 5 Arab nations on the Jewish population, in an attempt to, as the Arabs say, "drive them into the sea". The partition plan died right then.
If that plan died right there (as IMO it should have, without accord with the surrounding arab nations, creating a jewish state was a terrible idea), then what legitimacy does Israel have?
Israeli government and Israeli public, both through polls and through elections, have repeatedly expressed their interest at withdrawing from Gaza and the West Bank.
Really? There is an interest.. lol. I guess there must be widespread outrage within Israel then over those settlers doing the exact opposite. What exactly is the Israeli government doing to stop them?

However this concept of separation can not work when rockets are fired into Israel
So you are saying moving 100.000s of settlers in to 40% of Palestine's territories is to prevent rockets from being fired in to Israel, rather than to inspire hate and resistance and cause more of them? Whats the logic here, that those settlement will be targeted instead?

and when Palestinians want to flood Israel with their battalions of eternal (3rd and 4th generation) refugees. What they want, basically, are two Palestines - their own state, and Israel with an Arab majority. This won't happen.
No, its the other way around, you are denying them either, which isnt going to work.

Each and every country armed with nukes would use them before submitting to their Muslim overlords. I want to see a single, non-Muslim person in this forum - as liberal and dumb as they come - who would agree to live under Muslim control -
Funny. I thought tens of thousands of Jews do that anyway, like in Iran.

not to mention the striking disparity between Israel and Arabs in terms of education, GDP, governance, freedom of speech and press... these population can't be integrated, not from a civilian standpoint, not from a religious one and not from an economic one.
Cf south africa. But keep stealing what little resources the Palestinians have, keep crippling their economy by sealing of their borders, bombing and bulldozering their infrastructure and that disparity will only grow.

Of course, that's precisely what you want.

Israel doesn't need to fight any law, it has the upper hand military and politically. This can go on for 100 more years and no one would give a fuck.
Few in the US perhaps. The rest of the world is increasingly realizing whats going on there and how this injustice causes problems for nearly everyone on this planet, from North Africa to Europe to inside China. 1.5 billion muslims is a large group to piss off, and controlling ~95% of oil exports gives them a bit of leverage too.
 

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
2,422
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Whatever compensation you think they are entitled to, you should get from the perpetrators, not from the Palestinians. But Im not aware of millions of Jewish refugees who are still barred from returning to their homes.

I'm not the one who ties the Palestinian problem to Israeli relations with the Arab world; the Arabs themselves do that. The Saudi initiative talks of normalization between Israel and the Arab countries, it's only fair this compensation will be a part of the package.

I wonder why Jews who were uprooted from Arab countries managed to recover and build themselves up in Israel, but Palestinians couldn't do the same in any one of the 20+ Arab countries.

If that plan died right there (as IMO it should have, without accord with the surrounding arab nations, creating a jewish state was a terrible idea), then what legitimacy does Israel have?

Why does Israel need special legitimacy outside that has been given to the USA, for example?

Really? There is an interest.. lol. I guess there must be widespread outrage within Israel then over those settlers doing the exact opposite. What exactly is the Israeli government doing to stop them?

The settlers used to be at odds with the Israeli public, that changed in 2006 after the Hamas rocket campaign that followed the disengagement.
Kadima party sole purpose was that disengagement, and it was elected in with an overwhelming majority; its platform was unilaterally disengaging from the Palestinian territories and Gaza and then the West Bank.
Other than the settlers and right wing parties, no one imagined the aftermath - Hamas taking control of Gaza, turning it into an Iranian outpost and attacking Israel with thousands of rockets.

That's not the response a liberal would imagine that would follow a retreat.

So you are saying moving 100.000s of settlers in to 40% of Palestine's territories is to prevent rockets from being fired in to Israel, rather than to inspire hate and resistance and cause more of them? Whats the logic here, that those settlement will be targeted instead?

Factually, there are 0 settlers in Gaza and a large number of them in the West Bank. Factually, there's 0 rockets fired from the West Bank but used to be thousands from Gaza. The hate and resistance from the Palestinians are invariables, all that's left is to effectively deprive them the capability of harming Israelis.

No, its the other way around, you are denying them either, which isnt going to work.

If they want a two state solution, there must be a separation of the population - Jews to Israel, Arabs to Palestine (and that includes those that are already citizens of Israel). Coexisting with Muslims is becoming more difficult by the year, the radicalization is cutting through the entire Muslim world. You can't have true peace without separating Muslims from the rest.

Funny. I thought tens of thousands of Jews do that anyway, like in Iran.

Iran has the only significant Jewish community, the rest - in Syria, Egypt, Morocco, Iraq, others - have been nearly, or fully destroyed.

Cf south africa. But keep stealing what little resources the Palestinians have, keep crippling their economy by sealing of their borders, bombing and bulldozering their infrastructure and that disparity will only grow.

Is it really Israel's fault? Lets look at the data:

1. A significant portion of the international aid to the Palestinians - which were among the largest recipients of foreign aid in the world - ended up in the pockets of their leaders, as demonstrated by Arafat

2. During the 2nd intifada, which was started by the Palestinians in an attempt to win concessions from Israel, their GDP fell by something like 40%

3. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians used to work in Israel, which had to stop that following the wave of suicide attacks

Palestinians proved they can't run a country, they take money and blame Israel but truth is with the money spent there, it could have already been heaven.

Of course, that's precisely what you want.

Why would I want that? I wish they were as rich as their friends in the Persian Gulf, then they'd have better things on their minds than trying to destroy Israel. Apparently everything else takes a back seat to this specific wish.

Few in the US perhaps. The rest of the world is increasingly realizing whats going on there and how this injustice causes problems for nearly everyone on this planet, from North Africa to Europe to inside China. 1.5 billion muslims is a large group to piss off, and controlling ~95% of oil exports gives them a bit of leverage too.

The rest of the world only learns, painfully and gradually, that Islam is destructive. There are countless global battles involving Muslims, and none of these has anything to do with the Palestinians or Israel. If anything, I expect the West to grow fond of Israel; look at the political map in Europe, it's going right due to the Muslims taking over the continent. In nearly every EU country, the current leadership is more pro-Israeli than their predecessors. Apparently they now understand exactly what Israel has had to deal with for the past 60 years.