How to get your F35 fighters for free

[P4man]

How to get your F35 fighters for free

Apparently its not hard. All you need to do is stop violating the geneva conventions and UN resolutions in only some parts of occupied territory for a full 90 days, and voila, you get immunity for your past war crimes, guarantees that you can continue your illegal occupation indefinitely and $3 billion extra worth of state of the art military hardware for your next war of aggression.

http://www.therealnews.com/t2/compo...phyllis/494-bribing-israel-enhancing-the-swag

What's next, bribing bank robbers by offering them a pardon, free guns and get away cars if they refrain from robbing banks in one state for a short while?

 

[Freshgeardude]

they arent getting them for free. they are paying for them.

they are getting 2 batches. 1 batch of 20 delivered by 2015 (which israel is paying for) and another batch in 2020 (1 decade from now) which is part of the US deal to have the 90 day freeze.

no deals are set in stone for the second batch, first of all.

they might pay, they might not.

all of the money that has been given to israel as aid can only be used in the US. Meaning: industries here profit from the aid given.

so even if they get them for free, which isnt defined, the money will stimulate our economy.

get your facts right.



besides, when you start looking at israel's entire history, then I will start talking facts with you. All you look at are the last 40 years and nothing before that. You even said so yourself

 

[P4man]

LOL. They are paying for them with FMF grants. IOW, with money the US gave them. How exactly is that different from giving them for free?

And if you think thats a good way to stimulate the economy I would suggest you build a 100 or 1000 more F35s and just dump them in the ocean. Give some random dude a cheque to "pay" for them first. It will do wonders to your economy.

 

[MotF Bane]

The author is a nutjob and a moron.

 

[bamacre]

all of the money that has been given to israel as aid can only be used in the US. Meaning: industries here profit from the aid given.

so even if they get them for free, which isnt defined, the money will stimulate our economy.

LOL, that's still a net negative for our economy, not a net positive. It doesn't stimulate our economy, it's a burden on our economy.

 

[SamurAchzar]

In times when US has to forward strike groups to control North Korea and defend South Korea and Japan, I think a squadron or two of F35's is a very small price to pay for an ally that always stood it's own against countries such as Iran and Syria.

US military presence doesn't come for free.

 

[3chordcharlie]

LOL, that's still a net negative for our economy, not a net positive. It doesn't stimulate our economy, it's a burden on our economy.

No!

You don't even believe in Israel's right to exist.

 

[nick1985]

 

[P4man]

In times when US has to forward strike groups to control North Korea and defend South Korea and Japan, I think a squadron or two of F35's is a very small price to pay for an ally that always stood it's own against countries such as Iran and Syria.

US military presence doesn't come for free.

You think $3B is a small price to pay for a partial 90 day freeze in illegal settlement building? How much would it be worth for a permanent freeze then, or imagine, a geneva convention and UN resolution compliant dismantlement of those settlements? You must consider those palestinian lands be worth far more than even the most radical Hamas member.

 

[Jhhnn]

The author is a nutjob and a moron.

Seamless denial- Label and Dismiss, just the way Rush taught you to do...

 

[soccerballtux]

How to get your F35 fighters for free

Apparently its not hard. All you need to do is stop violating the geneva conventions and UN resolutions in only some parts of occupied territory for a full 90 days, and voila, you get immunity for your past war crimes, guarantees that you can continue your illegal occupation indefinitely and $3 billion extra worth of state of the art military hardware for your next war of aggression.

http://www.therealnews.com/t2/compo...phyllis/494-bribing-israel-enhancing-the-swag

What's next, bribing bank robbers by offering them a pardon, free guns and get away cars if they refrain from robbing banks in one state for a short while?

Almost as stupid as the notion that Hitler didn't kill any jews.

 

[Freshgeardude]

You think $3B is a small price to pay for a partial 90 day freeze in illegal settlement building? How much would it be worth for a permanent freeze then, or imagine, a geneva convention and UN resolution compliant dismantlement of those settlements? You must consider those palestinian lands be worth far more than even the most radical Hamas member.

like I said, go back and read the history.

israel is much more entitled to the land it is building on than you want to believe

 

[Freshgeardude]

LOL, that's still a net negative for our economy, not a net positive. It doesn't stimulate our economy, it's a burden on our economy.

well 3$ billion going directly to manufactures to build planes.

that'll employ hundreds of workers.

its a much better stimulus than the 900 billion that was inefficiently given out.

sure, its a burden on the economy, but I dont hear anyone complaining of the billions we give to pakistan that recently have been uncovered to be getting into Pakistani AQ.

nor do we hear of the billion given to europe or the millions to the lawless somalia

or even the millions to russia (really? do they even need it?)


all of the money given to these countries (excluding israel) goes directly into the pockets of the country, it gets swallowed up.

2/3 of israel's aid goes into the american economy.

i'd hardly be complaining of israel's aid over others from an american stand point (if one excluded all other factors)

 

[P4man]

Thats right. Geneva convention be damned. The Bible is their legal document. Interestingly other religious groups who believe in the very same book dont see a justification in it:
http://www.speroforum.com/a/42363/C...-Biblical-justication-for-Israeli-settlements

And some people believe in other books.

Not often I find myself agreeing with the catholic church but its hard to argue with this: "Recourse to theological and biblical positions which use the Word of God to wrongly justify injustices is not acceptable".

 

[SamurAchzar]

Thats right. Geneva convention be damned. The Bible is their legal document. Interestingly other religious groups who believe in the very same book dont see a justification in it:
http://www.speroforum.com/a/42363/C...-Biblical-justication-for-Israeli-settlements

And some people believe in other books.

Not often I find myself agreeing with the catholic church but its hard to argue with this: "Recourse to theological and biblical positions which use the Word of God to wrongly justify injustices is not acceptable".

Nice try to portray Israel as a theocracy, however nothing Israel does in respect to the Palestinians has anything to do with the bible. It's a bargaining chip and an assurance for Israel's security; after seeing what happened in Gaza when it was handed over to Hamas, I wouldn't hold my breath on Israel relinquishing control of any more territories.

Of course, your kind is more interested in screwing Israel over than helping those poor Palestinians, which is a shame really; no one actually cares about the Palestinians, they are just a convenient political platform for other ends (i.e. Iran, Hamas, Saudi Arabia, Jordan).

As for the Geneva convention, while I'd appreciate a reference to Israeli violations of that convention - I'm sure you can dig something up from the endless list of Pro-Muslim organizations funded by the Saudis or George Soros - something has to be said about what possible way is there to fight people who blow themselves up among civilians. I'm sure the architects of the Geneva Conventions never considered that as a viable scenario.

The convention was made for warfare among those who have some intrinsic value for human life - it certainly didn't take Muslim-type warfare into account.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Thats right. Geneva convention be damned. The Bible is their legal document. Interestingly other religious groups who believe in the very same book dont see a justification in it:
http://www.speroforum.com/a/42363/C...-Biblical-justication-for-Israeli-settlements

And some people believe in other books.

Not often I find myself agreeing with the catholic church but its hard to argue with this: "Recourse to theological and biblical positions which use the Word of God to wrongly justify injustices is not acceptable".

I said history. not ancient history. ive already told you to look from the late 1800s and on. this is where the modern day israeli/palestinian conflict has come from.


neither side is holding some sort of grudge for something that happened over 2000 years. to think that is completely illogical

 

[bamacre]

well 3$ billion going directly to manufactures to build planes.

that'll employ hundreds of workers.

its a much better stimulus than the 900 billion that was inefficiently given out.

sure, its a burden on the economy, but I dont hear anyone complaining of the billions we give to pakistan that recently have been uncovered to be getting into Pakistani AQ.

nor do we hear of the billion given to europe or the millions to the lawless somalia

or even the millions to russia (really? do they even need it?)


all of the money given to these countries (excluding israel) goes directly into the pockets of the country, it gets swallowed up.

2/3 of israel's aid goes into the american economy.

i'd hardly be complaining of israel's aid over others from an american stand point (if one excluded all other factors)

I've been saying it for for years, get rid of all the foreign aid. If you aren't hearing it, you haven't been listening.

Sure it goes back into our economy, but it's first sucked out of our economy. It's a total redistribution of resources, or wealth. It's corporate welfare, much worse than welfare for people who actually need it. And this shit isn't even on the table for either party. What do they put on the table? Unemployment benefits. They'll discuss the needs and costs of that, but oh no, not the welfare for Israel or Egypt or Pakistan or Georgia, etc. Only nutbags like Ron Paul and a few progressives want to discuss that.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I've been saying it for for years, get rid of all the foreign aid. If you aren't hearing it, you haven't been listening.

Sure it goes back into our economy, but it's first sucked out of our economy. It's a total redistribution of resources, or wealth. It's corporate welfare, much worse than welfare for people who actually need it. And this shit isn't even on the table for either party. What do they put on the table? Unemployment benefits. They'll discuss the needs and costs of that, but oh no, not the welfare for Israel or Egypt or Pakistan or Georgia, etc. Only nutbags like Ron Paul and a few progressives want to discuss that.

what you are saying does make sense, we should be cutting foreign aid, but ever since we started the expansionist ideology, we have been sticking our hands in every affair. the police for the world.

we didnt get the largest and most powerful military in the world sticking to ourselves

 

[SamurAchzar]

Sure it goes back into our economy, but it's first sucked out of our economy. It's a total redistribution of resources, or wealth.

It's more complicated than that. The aid to Israel and Egypt was given as a reward for the Camp David accords. This aid made it certain both Israel and Egypt relied on US made weapons systems from there on. With Egypt that was quite an accomplishment, as it exclusively used Soviet weapons until then. This obviously moved Egypt out of USSR sphere of influence, which I guess was the primary concern of the Americans when they came to sponsor this deal.
Now, outside of the direct aid provided, these countries spend billions more buying US parts and other systems.

This is anything but charity, and even if it doesn't balance out economically - and it probably does - there are other rewards such as political influence US wants to sustain.

 

[P4man]

Nice try to portray Israel as a theocracy, however nothing Israel does in respect to the Palestinians has anything to do with the bible.

So why are they building settlements on occupied land then? The Bible is the justification the settlers give. Security is a completely ridiculous argument, how on earth does it make anyone more secure to move Israeli civilian population beyond their borders in to lands legally owned by palestenians? How is that supposed to make more secure? You think its a good idea to increase security in Iraq by confiscating Iraqi land and creating US settlements there?

As for the Geneva convention, while I'd appreciate a reference to Israeli violations of that convention -

Are you kidding?

Art. 49
The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

Art. 85
4. In addition to the grave breaches defined in the preceding paragraphs and in the Conventions, the following shall be regarded as grave breaches of this Protocol, when committed willfully and in violation of the Conventions or the Protocol:
(a)the transfer by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory, in violation of Article 49 of the Forth Convention.

5. Without prejudice to the application of the Conventions and of this Protocol, grave breaches of these instruments shall be regarded as war crimes.

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/470?OpenDocument

And if you think this is just a small thing, have a look at this:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...ents-control-42-percent-of-west-bank-1.300303

So now the US taxpayers are paying 3 billion dollar to have Israel diminish its war crimes for 90 days. I say dimish because the settlement freeze doesnt apply to Jerusalem.

And that is just about the settlement. Collective punishment of civilian population is another one., and precisely what Israel is constantly doing in Gaza. And the list is longer than that.

 

[P4man]

well 3$ billion going directly to manufactures to build planes.

that'll employ hundreds of workers.

100's of jobs.. for 3 freakin billion? You could make 1.000 workers multi millionaires, settled for life.

The only ones really benefiting (aside from israel), is the military industrial complex, and of course the politicians who they fund. This has nothing to do with job creation are you really that dense? You give tax payer money to israel, israel spends it on Lockheed Martin who employ a few 100 people for a few years for that, hand out a few million back to the politicians who support this scam and pocket the rest.

Thats your idea of economic recovery? Like I said, you are better off ordering 1000 F35s and dumping them in the ocean. It will create jobs too!

 

[Freshgeardude]

So why are they building settlements on occupied land then? The Bible is the justification the settlers give. Security is a completely ridiculous argument, how on earth does it make anyone more secure to move Israeli civilian population beyond their borders in to lands legally owned by palestenians? How is that supposed to make more secure? You think its a good idea to increase security in Iraq by confiscating Iraqi land and creating US settlements there?

Are you kidding?


http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/FULL/470?OpenDocument

And if you think this is just a small thing, have a look at this:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...ents-control-42-percent-of-west-bank-1.300303

So now the US taxpayers are paying 3 billion dollar to have Israel diminish its war crimes for 90 days. I say dimish because the settlement freeze doesnt apply to Jerusalem.

And that is just about the settlement. Collective punishment of civilian population is another one., and precisely what Israel is constantly doing in Gaza. And the list is longer than that.

you dont understand history.


have the borders of modern day USA, canada, mexico, europe or asia come from peaceful discussions?

no they have not. it has come from war. where the winner comes out on top and is rewarded for it.

in 48, israel was attacked by 7 arab countries for the land it was allotted. israel won, it got more land.

in 67, after egypt blocked the suez canal and moved a battlion to the border, israel fought and won the golan heights, the west bank and gaza and the Sinai.

Israel traded the sinai back to egypt for peace. israel offered the gaza with sinai, egypt insisted in not taking it.

jordan decided to give up claims to the west bank and made a treaty with israel.

the golan heights, gaza, and the west bank remain in israeli control.

there is some nibbling with syria in trading back the golan for a peace deal, but its in really early stages.

nothing else has changed since

 

[Lemon law]

FGD may understand ancient history but understands nothing about modern history. In post WW2 new reality land gained by conquest is now an outmoded concept incompatable with a world peace in a nuclear era.

At this point in time, no country on earth recognizes Israel's right to retain land gained in the 1967&73 wars, yet 43 years later Israel has refused to relinquish these illegal gains as once again the larger world is again holding peace talks and begging Israel to volentarily vacate.

Sooner or later its probable that the larger world will DEMAND Israel to get out, don't pass go, don't collect anything, and if Israel does not volentarily comply they will face a world wide economic embargo just like the former South Africa Aparteid State faced.

 

[SandEagle]

How to get your F35 fighters for free

Apparently its not hard. All you need to do is stop violating the geneva conventions and UN resolutions in only some parts of occupied territory for a full 90 days, and voila, you get immunity for your past war crimes, guarantees that you can continue your illegal occupation indefinitely and $3 billion extra worth of state of the art military hardware for your next war of aggression.

http://www.therealnews.com/t2/compo...phyllis/494-bribing-israel-enhancing-the-swag

What's next, bribing bank robbers by offering them a pardon, free guns and get away cars if they refrain from robbing banks in one state for a short while?

u late son

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=30765886&highlight=#post30765886

 

[Freshgeardude]

FGD may understand ancient history but understands nothing about modern history. In post WW2 new reality land gained by conquest is now an outmoded concept incompatable with a world peace in a nuclear era.

At this point in time, no country on earth recognizes Israel's right to retain land gained in the 1967&73 wars, yet 43 years later Israel has refused to relinquish these illegal gains as once again the larger world is again holding peace talks and begging Israel to volentarily vacate.

Sooner or later its probable that the larger world will DEMAND Israel to get out, don't pass go, don't collect anything, and if Israel does not volentarily comply they will face a world wide economic embargo just like the former South Africa Aparteid State faced.

to bad your wet dream will never come true, since the US has veto power in the UN and israeli support is the most popular bipartisan topic to ever have existed in the history of the US.


in 73, the land gained by israel west of the sinai was met with egyptian gain in the sinai. no one said shit about egypt's claims.

land was given back in peace deal.

golan land is still in israel's possession. I see no nation is complaining about the golan except for syria (of course, they lost it)

I would hardly call the 1900s ancient history. WWI caused nations to be destroyed and others to absorb their land.

WWII as well.

Korean war?

vietnam war?

all wars where land was split.

all relatively recent.