No, it most certainly does not.
No, DirectCompute isn't remotely close to open source.
You are one of the better actors I have seen if that is true.
No, it most certainly does not.
No, DirectCompute isn't remotely close to open source.
You are one of the better actors I have seen if that is true.
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
- 2,867
- 3
- 81
Too little too late for you to come to the party, I edited my post to correct some mistakes including those, and thanks to call me an actor, but I'm not, I prefer to sing :laugh:
Don't get upset that I'm arguing with your brother Wreckage, its nothing personal, neither your cousin OCGuy takes things personally, so relax.
The real irony is that the people who want it to work are people who have purchased nvidia hardware in the past and want to keep using nvidia hardware.
I actually believe I made this exact same reply to your previous post, yet you simply ignore any reasonable rebuttal of your FUD and keep posting the exact same marketing lines every day.
Now allow me to clearly present my point, so that in the future you will not make the mistake of repeating the obvious misunderstanding:
The *requirement* to want to use physX with ATI hardware is to have purchased *nVidia* hardware in the past, or plan to purchase it in the future, thus labeling those people as ATI fans makes absolutely no sense.
If you cannot comprehend this simple fact then I will join the line of people who desire your posting rights removed.
Why does the best forum on the internet have to be ruined by a select few individuals, I used to love reading the AT forum, now its just a bunch of FUD, lies and marketing, like the rest of the god damn internet.
Every time I try to join a debate I find myself knee-deep in some fanboy infight by the same people who post 24/7 in every damn thread, it is totally impossible to have a conversation with anyone without interference and FUD spreading by the same people.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a tech forum with sensible moderators? .. I am tired of this.
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
- 2,867
- 3
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And another irony is that some fans can fingerpoint errors of some individuals (Like me), but can't correct the FUD and the constant spread of cheap marketing tactics and lies across the threads like the ones that Crapckage does in a constant step, odd right?
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
- 2,867
- 3
- 81
Its embarassing for me because I'm arguing with a troll like you
There's not out yet, but soon, but DX11 is around the corner and you are not gonna be able to enjoy it because you can't use ATi cards.
With your attitud you are scaring the people away from this forums, hope they ban you soon.
Wreckage
Banned
- Jul 1, 2005
- 5,529
- 0
- 0
Odd the ATI chip in my laptop works just fine...so I guess I can use ATI cards. Also NVIDIA will have Dx11 long before ATI will have physics.
Granted I can play many games with PhysX right now. Pretty cool huh?
Also Dx11 technically is not even out yet.
http://www.microsoft.com/games...GFW/pages/directx.aspx
DirectX® 11, the next generation of graphics technology, arrives with Windows 7.
I could not find a link to download it.
At least stick to the facts.
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
- 2,867
- 3
- 81
LOL, as if the developers are treated the same as normal customers, DX11 development kit is already available for testing and usage, so please don't mistake normal consumers with developers, that's ridiculous LOLL, getting developer and professional information in a consumer page instead of Technet for example, that's funny. My Windows 7 has DX11
PhysX is a gimmick that I will enjoy now with my AGEIA card once it comes, DX11 is a reality that I will enjoy once I upgrade, unlike you that will have to wait until Q2 2010 to enjoy the benefits, reality bytes.
Evo and Wreck stop your bickering. You've both made it clear which team you are on, and you two fanbois should take your argument over to the PM where people with less "tinted" vision aren't privy this this trivial argument.
That and you guys are drifting away from the topic, which was discussing the merits and technicallities of PhysX in a ATI+Nvidia setup. Personal attacks and snide commentary are going to get you no where and certainly garner no good will with the rest of the forum.
That and you guys are drifting away from the topic, which was discussing the merits and technicallities of PhysX in a ATI+Nvidia setup. Personal attacks and snide commentary are going to get you no where and certainly garner no good will with the rest of the forum.
Originally posted by: evolucion8
PhysX is a gimmick that I will enjoy now with my AGEIA card once it comes, DX11 is a reality that I will enjoy once I upgrade, unlike you that will have to wait until Q2 2010 to enjoy the benefits, reality bytes.
You know the Ageia card has been blocked if you have an ATI card right? You're gonna use the hack?
Qbah
Diamond Member
- Oct 18, 2005
- 3,754
- 10
- 81
Haha, just read the HardOCP review. PhysX on ATi+nV hack actually works better than on an nV+nV setup (in Batman, as it's the only title they showed it in, but the "best" one according to recent statements from nV). That's for me a clear sign for why they blocked it - an ATi + nV setup is actually better ! And if it wasn't for the block people would be going for it (and not buy the pricier, slower nVidia cards). That's just too funny
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,003
- 126
From the article:
First we have the AA issue which was proven to run perfectly on ATi cards without alteration to the game?s code.
Now we have PhysX running with ATi through a community hack, and it works better than nVidia?s natively supported PhysX implementation. The whole Batman debacle is a total joke for nVidia.
In case someone missed it, here?s the graph with the proof:
http://www.hardocp.com/image.h...ZvS05ZZ21fOV82X2wuZ2lm
It?s obvious why the artificial vendor-lock has come about, and it?s even more obvious how stupid it would?ve been for ATi to expend resources supporting PhysX, only to find themselves locked out when it didn?t suit nVidia any more.
LOL, so much for the ?work was done by nVidia with the developer? and ?nVidia can?t guarantee compatibility? arguments that were being put forward by nVidia proponents.
First we have the AA issue which was proven to run perfectly on ATi cards without alteration to the game?s code.
Now we have PhysX running with ATi through a community hack, and it works better than nVidia?s natively supported PhysX implementation. The whole Batman debacle is a total joke for nVidia.
In case someone missed it, here?s the graph with the proof:
http://www.hardocp.com/image.h...ZvS05ZZ21fOV82X2wuZ2lm
It?s obvious why the artificial vendor-lock has come about, and it?s even more obvious how stupid it would?ve been for ATi to expend resources supporting PhysX, only to find themselves locked out when it didn?t suit nVidia any more.
evolucion8
Platinum Member
- Jun 17, 2005
- 2,867
- 3
- 81
Yeah, but there's an additional step that has to be taking, here they are, posted by another guy in other thread.;
I DONE IT! I FOUND SOLUTION
I downloaded CUDA drivers (includes yes nvidia graphis so there is nvcuda.dl_).
I started installing them and very fast stuck to graphis card place (where starts installing them and see i dont have nvidia) then it has unzipped all stuff to C:\NVIDIA -folder,
Go to C:\NVIDIA\Win764\185.5\IS <--Folder. There is one very important file (not nvcuda.dl_)... called by "nvcuda32.dl_"
-------------------Now we need expand that file back to working *.dll---------
Start cmd from start menu
Use cd.. (back from folders) or cd FOLDERNAME commands come back to C:
Then go to C:\NVIDIA\Win764\185.5\IS -folder by those commands. Then Write next...
"expand nvcuda32.dl_ c:\" (without "" -marks)
Its now expands that back to nvcuda32.dll to C:\, so go to C:\ -Drive and found it, rename it to nvcuda.dll and copy (or cut) it to
C:\CUDA\bin (works for me)
C:\Windows\System32 (sometimes(?))
C:\Windows\WOW64 (?)
and start play... (8.09.04 this, not yet tested try play with newest)
Yeah!!!!
This helps those who are stucked into 8.04.25 physx drivers with Ageia PPU (100). Getting better ones.
You with Nvidia card, u get easy that nvcuda.dll´s right version. With only CUDA tool kit this doesnt come and its make hard to launch anything! says error to found "nvcuda.dll" And all whats i found from internet (nvcuda.dll) didnt work on 64 bit Win7!
^^^ post above is example of what to post here. It was informative and those who read it actually learned something with potential usefulness. And JSt0rm01 nothing is ever too crazy for the internet .
.Did you happen to glance at that article? A 5870 is faster when it uses a nV part to handle PhysX. In other words, the 5870 is faster then the GTX285(which I think most people on these forums already knew).
Sweet, you tested every driver revision and every possible PhysX effect with ATi hardware, when are you going to have that article up? That will put some real pressure on nV to open things back up, instead of these ignorant fanbois who insist something must work all the time because it works under very narrow conditions.
ATi isn't locked out from PhysX at all. There is a driver lockout for mixed GPU hardware setups- PPU setups should still be working fine under every OS they have ever had official support in(XP versions and Vista versions). BTW- Any word on when ATi is going to enable vid capture on their AIW parts when using a nV GPU for display? Keep waiting to hear about that since they are the open company who would never do exactly the same thing
I don't care who you argue with, I'm tired of raging loyalists posting blatant lies about the 100% proprietary DX CS. Both Havok and PhysX run on more gaming systems then DX CS, by a staggering margin too. Even if we assumed every PC gamer already had Win7 and a DX 11 part, PhysX and Havok would still both run on more gaming systems then DX CS.
Qbah
Diamond Member
- Oct 18, 2005
- 3,754
- 10
- 81
Doesn't change the fact that there isn't any performance reason for blocking PhysX out of a mixed-combo setup. It was one of the stated reasons (as in it will run worse than on a "pure" nVidia combo which clearly is not the case - it runs better!). A HD5870 is faster than a GTX285, nobody is saying otherwise. An extra PhysX card running in the system won't change that and won't make your PhysX experience worse on an ATi+nV combination. Hell, it will make it better ! The Radeon will play the game better in the end. That's pure irony
"Experience the game in a better way when a Radeon is doing the rendering and nVidia PhysX" Neither does nVidia when releasing drivers - otherwise there wouldn't be new drivers with fixes and performance tweaks. Things just don't work sometimes. Nobody is saying it will always work flawlessly - you can't say that even about a "pure" system. There will always be issues, regardless of what is running in your computer. nVidia doesn't guarantee everything will run perfectly fine either. It doesn't mean they should block a user running (EXAMPLE!) an i945 chipset and a Pentium-D with a GTX295 and a 9800GTX for PhysX if they didn't test every motherboard with that chipset and every kind of Pentium-D, now does it?
ATi isn't locked out from PhysX at all. There is a driver lockout for mixed GPU hardware setups- PPU setups should still be working fine under every OS they have ever had official support in(XP versions and Vista versions). BTW- Any word on when ATi is going to enable vid capture on their AIW parts when using a nV GPU for display? Keep waiting to hear about that since they are the open company who would never do exactly the same thing
With the world moving to Windows 7 that launched officially today, nVidia is supporting an almost legacy OS (XP) and Vista for hardware that won't allow you to experience PhysX fully anyway (newest PhysX drivers don't work for the PPU anyway) only. They might as well EOL the Aegia card as it's too slow for pretty much anything. And ATi+PPU is not supported under Win7 either (at least according to the reports I have read). The artificial block is there for one reason only - to not allow you to run ATi cards as the renderer as it will give you a better experience now and in the foreseeable future. Obviously nVidia didn't want that so they blocked ATi out.
DX CS will also be supported under Vista. I guess it already is as Windows 7 launched today. Application support needs to follow, with that you are right. But then again, unless people will buy DX11 hardware and have it supported by the OS, the devs won't bother with it as nobody will be able to use it anyway. Vista and Win7 both do (or will) support DX11 and the apps will show up now as before there was nothing that could run it anyway.
I absolutely agree, which is why I don't understand why ATi keeps blocking me from using my vid capture device if I'm running a nV GPU. They say they will only support it if I run an ATi GPU- clearly there is no performance reason for it, but they do it anyway. Couldn't possibly be all of the potential driver issues and increased support that would involve, it can't be that they are trying to run a business and have enough to deal with on their own to bother troubleshooting someone else's drivers, none of that can be the reason. It has to be very easy.
Qbah
Diamond Member
- Oct 18, 2005
- 3,754
- 10
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I never said ATi is not guilty of similar tactics (though I found out about it from you). If your add-on tuner card will work only with an ATi main card, it's your right to complain about it. But, except the fact that it's similar practice, what does it have to do with PhysX? Tuner cards are hardly something that push the envelope of GPU effects... It is a valid complaint, don't get me wrong, but not one to be putting as an argument in a PhysX debate imo.
That's not the point. The point is that an enthusiast managed to hack PhysX to work with an ATi card and the overall performance level was above that of a non-hacked all-Nvidia setup. If there were truly the deep interconnects between GPU and PhysX driver that Nvidia keeps alluding to, you would expect the hacked ATi/PhysX combination to suffer a substantial performance hit of some kind. But as shown in that benchmark, the ATi/PhysX combination actually performs better than the Nvidia/PhysX setup. This would be the true reason for the lockout, not a lack of interoperability.
Removing the artificial restriction shows that PhysX is capable of working with an ATi card as the primary renderer. So far, nobody seems to have come forth saying there are massive graphical glitches produced by performing this mod.
So, for which reason do you think Nvidia is preventing PhysX from working alongside an ATi card, technical or financial?
I'm pretty sure you knew what he was getting at. Nice sidestep, however.
???? Oh, come on... So now you're saying ATi is deliberately blocking only the video capture function when an Nvidia card is present alongside an All-In-Wonder card? Does that sound like a deliberate limitation or a hardware/software limitation? I haven't even heard of this issue before. If it was deliberate, I would think ATi would've prevented ALL video functions from operating through an Nvidia card, not just video capture.Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
BTW- Any word on when ATi is going to enable vid capture on their AIW parts when using a nV GPU for display? Keep waiting to hear about that since they are the open company who would never do exactly the same thing
I used a TV Wonder PCI and a GF3 Ti200 for years out in my garage computer for watching football games while working on projects. In fact, I think that might still be the combo that's out there. I don't recall ever having any problems with video capture when I used it to convert some VHS tapes to video files. If ATi was going to deliberately block Nvdia cards from performing only video capture, I highly doubt they would selectively choose only the All-In-Wonder card and would instead block it from their entire lineup.
You are the only person I have heard that story from, even using 15 minutes googling all kinds of phrases I could not find anyone with a similar story.Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
BTW- Any word on when ATi is going to enable vid capture on their AIW parts when using a nV GPU for display? Keep waiting to hear about that since they are the open company who would never do exactly the same thing
I'd like to see some kind of evidence that it is true, because if my memory serves then I have previously used that combination of cards with no problems that I can remember.
Granted I might be missing the obvious and I am interested to know if it is true, but since this physx debate has been going on for months, and you just now happen to pull out that claim then to me it smells like fud..
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,003
- 126
Right, but what most people didn?t know was that when PhysX was hacked to work on the ATi card by the community, it works better than nVidia?s native solution.
You don?t find this at all surprising after the reasons we were given for nVidia?s active block of said feature?
Narrow conditions? HOCP tried it and it worked first go, without issues, and without effort. There are also a plethora of examples online of people trying it on different setups and it works too. The community came up with it because it works. That?s not narrow.
What?s next, claiming Batman?s AA doesn?t function on ATi?s cards because it hasn?t been tested on every ATi part and every Catalyst driver? How disingenuous.
You need to brush up on the situation because discrete PPUs no longer function either, and have been locked out in the same way as nVidia?s parts have been.
I?m pretty sure I asked for evidence for active driver blocks on ATi?s side, but I never got any from you.BTW- Any word on when ATi is going to enable vid capture on their AIW parts when using a nV GPU for display? Keep waiting to hear about that since they are the open company who would never do exactly the same thing
In either case your argument last time was that discrete PPUs still worked but since that?s no longer the case, I assume you?re going to retract your stance given this is a clear PhysX lock-out when ATi?s parts are detected?
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