Not at all. As a matter of fact PPU drivers have been disabled only recently and before that they were only updates on top of 2008 September's driver set.
Even though the box advertises PhysX? Does it say only if you only have an nVidia card as the primary card?
Nope, it advertises PhysX, no limitations. I have no different perspective as I can afford any card I want. I have no questions to be answered, it's a video card, not the meaning of life.
But in the end, it's false advertising with the current drivers.
My sound card doesn't advertise that it works with the nvidia chipset in my motherboard, yet I simply expected it to work without researching the issue when I bought it.
I expect all hardware to be agnostic about the *vendor* of other hardware, there might be bugs in the actual hardware or drivers which keeps them from working together, but those are so extremely rare these days that I hardly consider it an issue.
When a company introduces such things artificially, for whatever reason, I will be much more skeptical about hardware from said company in the future, and if all else is equal avoid buying from said company.
Is that so hard to understand? - vendor agnostic hardware is an expected function, not an advertised one.
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
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Yes, because a PPU is by definition a discrete PhysX card which has absolutely nothing to do with graphics cards or video drivers. The definition of a discrete card is one that that works in any physically compatible slot providing it has drivers for the host OS, which a PPU does.
TurtleCrusher
Lifer
- Apr 20, 2008
- 10,067
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Originally posted by: Keysplayr
It was sort of meant to be funny.
and
Welcome Back!
Keys, I have nothing against you at all, and I admire your contributions to this board.
However, I did not find your trivial reply to my serious statement funny at all. In fact, I find (IMHO) what nVidia is doing with their new drivers quite disturbing.
And, thank you for your advice. I will not try to make cole slaw with my video cards.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
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Well, maybe this will help you understand Nvidia's official position on why they are doing what they are doing. Maybe it won't. But it's here for you to read anyway.
http://physxinfo.com/news/330/...-physx-configurations/
It's amazing that the Nvidia software engineers can't seem to get ATi/PhysX combinations to function properly because "adding AMD GPUs would significantly increase the necessary work and cost for NVIDIA", yet enthusiasts somehow manage to hack the PhysX drivers at will to enable it.
From the same PhysXinfo.com website you linked to above:
Modded GeForce drivers: unlocked PhysX for Radeon ?
ATI HD 5870 + NV GT 220 PhysX Benchmarks
It's painfully obvious to everybody this is not any sort of hardware or workload limitation. This is simply just another one of Nvidia's attempts to disable something they don't approve of, the same as when they disabled SLI on ULi m1697 chipsets.
The way you keep defending Nvidia on this subject makes it appear that you actually approve of their actions, Keys.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
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Creig, I linked to Nvidia's official stance on this matter. Whether you "believe" it or not doesn't really matter. The explanation is there. You make it seem like the ONLY reason PhysX was disabled was because of the extra cost in testing all games with all ATI cards. Did you not understand that there were also BUSINESS reasons? Nvidia went through the expense of purchasing Ageia PhysX technology. Adapted it to their CUDA based GPUs. Spent time and money working with game devs to incorporate PhysX into games. And who knows what else went into it. And you think they can't do what they want with it? It's completely theirs to do with as they feel is best for their company. From both a technological standpoint and a business standpoint.
You call this defending. I call this telling it like it is. This is what has happened. Whether you like it or not, this is what has happened. And, you seem to think that I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Or at least one you don't approve of? Give me a break.
I have stated several times before, that that I had mixed feelings about all this. Pros and cons when looking at it from different perspectives. If that is not good enough for you, then that is entirely your issue.
AND, you mention the hack. That's fine, but I have also warned everyone that this may be undone in future drivers and anyone going out to purchase an Nvidia GPU to run PhysX alongside their ATI card might be unpleasantly surprised when newer drivers emerge blocking the hack and more "hack proof". I don't have any specific info, but it doesn't take a genius to see that is very likely to happen. And I don't see you warning anybody about this possibility and acting as if it is a given that it will always be hackable.
I have never once seen an Nvidia press release stating that this was a business related decision. Nvidia keeps repeating that it's simply too difficult and expensive to enable PhysX with an ATi card as the primary renderer. Do you have a link to any release saying otherwise?
Well, I guess I must've missed those posts. So tell me, given the fact that the Nvidia drivers keep getting hacked to enable PhysX with an ATi card installed, do you think that Nvidia is being entirely truthful when they keep telling us that, "adding AMD GPUs would significantly increase the necessary work and cost for NVIDIA"? Or are they doing this because they simply don't like having an ATi card working with PhysX?
Oh, I see it as a very real possibility and probability. Nvidia has shown in the past that they care very little for the wishes of their customers and would rather deliberately destroy functionality when allowing it would cost them little or no effort. Except they forgot about the cost in public approval and customer satisfaction. I've seen more than a few current Nvidia users express disapproval at Nvidia's tactics in this situation. You don't think that some of those might purchase ATi cards instead the next time they upgrade because of this?
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
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You scour the forums, so I know you have seen all the information Nvidia released. Official or unofficial. You are abreast of every syllable. To say otherwise is impossible to believe. This would include that very first email from nvidia to that web site that inquired about this move when it initially happened. That email mentioned both technical and business reasons right from the start. I don't have the link handy right now and its not easy to find as I am on a blackberry right now. However, I am certain another helpful individual could conjure it up.
And I certainly agree that Nvidia will lose some sales to those who have taken this very personally. I would also add that those who really want PhysX content will just the same sacrifice an ATI purchase and go all nvidia to have it. In the end, it may just even out. But of course, I can't say for certain what will happen.
Lastly, about you missing my posts? That's not possible. I'm probably in your "buddy" list so you can see when I'm on and look for new posts of mine to counter. You've seen my stance probably a few different occasions regarding this situation. Of this, I have absolutely no doubt.
And I certainly agree that Nvidia will lose some sales to those who have taken this very personally. I would also add that those who really want PhysX content will just the same sacrifice an ATI purchase and go all nvidia to have it. In the end, it may just even out. But of course, I can't say for certain what will happen.
Lastly, about you missing my posts? That's not possible. I'm probably in your "buddy" list so you can see when I'm on and look for new posts of mine to counter. You've seen my stance probably a few different occasions regarding this situation. Of this, I have absolutely no doubt.
following you guys Posts educates me, keep at it that i 'm loving it , maybe will make a blog related to this later on i Love the Anandtech Forums.
Qbah
Diamond Member
- Oct 18, 2005
- 3,754
- 10
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There was an official-unofficial reply after they blocked it stating that it's done for both technical (as they don't want to Q&A other vendor's cards) and business (they own it, they want you to buy their cards only to run it) reasons. Pretty straightforward approach. I don't like it, but hey, at least they were honest.
jeez all this animosity. Keys and Creig you should both know that you're getting incensed and angry over a matter that neither of you had any relation with nor control over. Unless of course one of you belongs on an Nvidia or ATI dev team and/or "focus group".
The fact is both of you are telling it like it is. Nvidia's official claim on PhysX w/ ATI hardware is that they can't be bothered to work out the potential driver conflicts. In reality they are actively blocking out the use of ATI hardware with subsequent driver releases regardless of whether it truly presents an engineering difficulty to them to hold hands and get along.
Strictly business folks. Nvidia sees PhysX as a leverage for them on the market, and with both Intel and ATI backing Havoc the three companies stand divided. We might not like it that they are forcing us to choose between buying Nvidia hardware solely or skipping out on physics, but this is a business decision that Nvidia believes will positively impact their user base when purchasing decisions come to play.
If you want PhysX, then sorry looks like buying from the green team is the only option. If you hate them for locking out a competitor then vote with your wallet and buy from the red team. If you want both PhysX AND hate Nvidia, then sorry bud you gotta make a choice. The business world ain't perfect and never has come remotely close to being so. Just be glad that as components of the PC market these companies produce quality products that allow us the freedom to pick and choose our hardware options. You certainly don't get that much flexibility with Apple.
The fact is both of you are telling it like it is. Nvidia's official claim on PhysX w/ ATI hardware is that they can't be bothered to work out the potential driver conflicts. In reality they are actively blocking out the use of ATI hardware with subsequent driver releases regardless of whether it truly presents an engineering difficulty to them to hold hands and get along.
Strictly business folks. Nvidia sees PhysX as a leverage for them on the market, and with both Intel and ATI backing Havoc the three companies stand divided. We might not like it that they are forcing us to choose between buying Nvidia hardware solely or skipping out on physics, but this is a business decision that Nvidia believes will positively impact their user base when purchasing decisions come to play.
If you want PhysX, then sorry looks like buying from the green team is the only option. If you hate them for locking out a competitor then vote with your wallet and buy from the red team. If you want both PhysX AND hate Nvidia, then sorry bud you gotta make a choice. The business world ain't perfect and never has come remotely close to being so. Just be glad that as components of the PC market these companies produce quality products that allow us the freedom to pick and choose our hardware options. You certainly don't get that much flexibility with Apple.
Very well said :thumbsup: and even if nvidia does block these again someone will always hack it
it will happen again, now maybe nvidia will block this again in future drivers but if things don't go well for them in the future they might change their stance in order to make some extra sales getting some nvidia gpu's as physics , things change constantly depending on the market forecast and we gotta see how long can the monkey dance on their current policies.
it will happen again, now maybe nvidia will block this again in future drivers but if things don't go well for them in the future they might change their stance in order to make some extra sales getting some nvidia gpu's as physics , things change constantly depending on the market forecast and we gotta see how long can the monkey dance on their current policies.
I agree with everything in your post. Well, everything except for saying I'm getting angry over this. I'm actually quite bemused by it. Nvidia seems ready to doom PhysX to failure rather than allow it to work alongside an ATi card which would allow greater market penetration. I've said for years that Nvidia makes some nice hardware. Their business practices, however, leave a lot to be desired.
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