How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC

[PrincessFrosty]

Sure you can mod games, as I mention there's some effects that have no particular ceiling you can just keep piling on until your card wilts under the stress, after market AA options, or using modding to increase the view distance in games like Fallout and Elder scrolls series etc

But I maintain that this isn't representative of A) most games, and B) most gamers.

It's trivial to max out resources on a video card by simply cranking after market settings and effects, but the fact is we've struggled to find really decent uses for all this additional power.

I honestly think it's this excess of power that has lead to multi-monitor setups for the first time in gaming history being really accessible (read: affordable), and the same for 3D gaming. This is AMD and Nvidia saying "what can we use to justify people dropping another £500 on video cards", answer? Something new that requires a massive increase in raw power in order to run, how about driving 8Mpix+ arrays of displays, or cranking double the frame rate (120fps) for decent 3D...(keep in mind that FPS increase isn't linear)

Again I'm on my 580 mostly quite happily, swapping between 1080p @ 120hz and 2560x1600 @ 60hz and mostly don't struggle with most modern games. That's above average res/fps and 2 generation old hardware...Hell i've gladly bought the top end graphics card every single generation of video cards since the voodoo days, the last generation was the first one I've just flat out skipped.

 

[futurefields]

Engines being built from ground up to use multi-gb system ram outta make a huge difference.

 

[Cerb]

Sure you can mod games, as I mention there's some effects that have no particular ceiling you can just keep piling on until your card wilts under the stress, after market AA options, or using modding to increase the view distance in games like Fallout and Elder scrolls series etc

But I maintain that this isn't representative of A) most games, and B) most gamers.

Obviously. Most have IGP, for one thing. Most gamers stick with what the developers chose as defaults, which have been downscaled from more detailed textures and models, for which we do have the GPU power to handle, at least to some degree.

It's trivial to max out resources on a video card by simply cranking after market settings and effects, but the fact is we've struggled to find really decent uses for all this additional power.

Except in tunnel shooters and strategy, it is almost impossible to not have fuzzy textures, to some degree, even using standard compressed textures, if you lack 2GB+ VRAM, and only 2GB because higher hasn't become common enough. There's no performance downside to compressing textures (IE, being free), merely quality (which can occasionally be significant, but isn't usually noticeable at all), and RAM is still expensive enough to warrant doing it.

Engines being built from ground up to use multi-gb system ram outta make a huge difference.

I hope so. Maybe that can help push 4+GB as a normal single-monitor amount.

 

[2is]

So not only is the ps4's gpu equal to 2 Titans, the tablet cpu in it rivals a 3770...
Don't let the lack of facts hold you back.

Magic > Facts

 

[galego]

PS4 CPU: 102 GFLOP & 8T
i5-3570k CPU: 108.8 GFLOP & 4T
i7-3770k CPU: 112 GFLOP & 8T

And the PS4 will be running a light OS, not a bloated Windows. We already know that Epic chose an i7 in the comparisons with PS4.

Moreover the PS4 is a HSA design, which implies that can achieve more than 102 GFLOP.

One half of PS4 CPU: 51 GFLOP & 4T
i3-2100T: 40 GFLOP & 4T

This would imply that Temash (Jaguar based) is faster than the i3... and benchmarks given before confirm this

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35021461&postcount=1120

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Welcome to AMDzone!

 

[2is]

PS4 CPU: 102 GFLOP & 8T
i5-3570k CPU: 108.8 GFLOP & 4T
i7-3770k CPU: 112 GFLOP & 8T

And the PS4 will be running a light OS, not a bloated Windows. We already know that Epic chose an i7 in the comparisons with PS4.

Moreover the PS4 is a HSA design, which implies that can achieve more than 102 GFLOP.

One half of PS4 CPU: 51 GFLOP & 4T
i3-2100T: 40 GFLOP & 4T

This would imply that Temash (Jaguar based) is faster than the i3... and benchmarks given before confirm this

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35021461&postcount=1120

And you're basing this off of random posts that you found at a random forum from a random forum member that randomly said what you wanted it to say, threw in some of your own BS and passing it off as a fact. Your ridiculousness knows no bounds it seems. And I'm not even talking about the link you just shared.

You're better off saying it's magic. Believing in magic is better than believing in BS.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Were both the Jaguar and i5 3570 benched on the same app? As you know results vary from app to app.

 

[galego]

The GFLOP values are not from benchmarks. E.g. the 108.8 GFLOP (i5) and 112 GFLOP (i7) are from Intel official specs.

Benchmarks between Jaguar based chips and i3 chips were given in some previous post.

 

[Enigmoid]

The GFLOP values are not from benchmarks. E.g. the 108.8 GFLOP (i5) and 112 GFLOP (i7) are from Intel official specs.

Benchmarks between Jaguar based chips and i3 chips were given in some previous post.

They are linpack/intel burn test numbers.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

They are linpack/intel burn test numbers.

But were both tested on the same app for a basis?

 

[Enigmoid]

But were both tested on the same app for a basis?

From what I see around forums from intel burn test and linpack people seem to be getting around 100-110 GFLOPS (overclocked sometimes 120+ GFLOPS).

Linpack does not scale with HT (sometimes negative).

The difference between 108.8 vs 112 GFLOPS is because of the 100 mhz clock speed difference between the i7-3770k and the i5-3570k.

Note this is practical max GFLOPS. Running linpack/IBT on an 8 core jaguar is going to yield lower numbers that its straight theoretical values (generally seems to be 55-75% of theoretical). Real world applications access a smaller portion of the practical max GFLOPS and this is the important part.

Its the real world performance than counts. Just for kicks when calculated theoretically the xbox360 is around 77 GFLOPS and the PS3 is 230 GFLOPS but the extractable performance is a tiny fraction of that.

 

[Silver Prime]

Sooner or later, it will be hear...I hope no one put money on it being better than a Pc's out-put power.

 

[Lavans]

It's not the power of the console that matters, it's the optimizations developers can squeeze out of it.

Yes, a modern gaming PC is as powerful, if not more powerful, than a PS4. However, developers making games for the PS4 doesn't need to worry about compatibility between thousands of hardware combinations on the platform, nor will the games be running off an OS with processes constantly running in the background that eat up resources.

Look at the PS3 for a moment. Its GPU is theoretically on par with a Nvidia 7900 series GPU. Then look at games like Beyond Two Souls, The Last of Us, and Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes. I dare you to tell me with a straight face that a PC equipped with a Nvidia 7900 series GPU can pull the same level of graphics, when it's well known that it struggles with Mass Effect 1 at 1280x1024.

 

[2is]

It's not the power of the console that matters, it's the optimizations developers can squeeze out of it.

Yes, a modern gaming PC is as powerful, if not more powerful, than a PS4. However, developers making games for the PS4 doesn't need to worry about compatibility between thousands of hardware combinations on the platform, nor will the games be running off an OS with processes constantly running in the background that eat up resources.

Look at the PS3 for a moment. Its GPU is theoretically on par with a Nvidia 7900 series GPU. Then look at games like Beyond Two Souls, The Last of Us, and Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes. I dare you to tell me with a straight face that a PC equipped with a Nvidia 7900 series GPU can pull the same level of graphics, when it's well known that it struggles with Mass Effect 1 at 1280x1024.

Yes, we know. No one is debating this.

 

[Lavans]

Yes, we know. No one is debating this.

But we are debating "PC computational power vs console computational power". Don't get me wrong, a healthy debate like that is great and all, but that's like debating what two cars are faster when one of them doesn't have tires. Keeping true to the topic, my argument is simply that the PS4 is better than the PC, not because of hardware, but because of software based advantages.

 

[Silver Prime]

You mean the Ps4 is better because of having better games...right?

 

[toyota]

no one here will buy the PS4 thinking its as good as a top of the line pc. most people will buy the PS4 because it will have some good games that can only be played on the PS4. at least that is the only reason I have a PS3 now and will get a PS4 when it goes slim.

 

[2is]

But we are debating "PC computational power vs console computational power". Don't get me wrong, a healthy debate like that is great and all, but that's like debating what two cars are faster when one of them doesn't have tires. Keeping true to the topic, my argument is simply that the PS4 is better than the PC, not because of hardware, but because of software based advantages.

Except that there's someone pretending the PS4's computational power is at worst, equal to the most powerful PC hardware available, and at best, a lot better. It's hardly about comparing equal hardware and saying the PS4 would be more capable. That debate would have ended soon after it started. Well, so did this really, but the guy is just persistent.

 

[Lavans]

You mean the Ps4 is better because of having better games...right?

A game being better than another is nothing more than opinion, so...no.

Except that there's someone pretending the PS4's computational power is at worst, equal to the most powerful PC hardware available, and at best, a lot better. It's hardly about comparing equal hardware and saying the PS4 would be more capable. That debate would have ended soon after it started. Well, so did this really, but the guy is just persistent.

I gotcha. :thumbsup:

 

[2is]

no one here will buy the PS4 thinking its as good as a top of the line pc. most people will buy the PS4 because it will have some good games that can only be played on the PS4

Agreed, I bought my PS2 mainly for Gran Turismo, PS3 mainly for Gran Turismo, but ended up using it for GT and a media center extender and plan on getting the PS4 for Gran Turismo, thought this time I'm going to wait until the game is available.

 

[Silver Prime]

no one here will buy the PS4 thinking its as good as a top of the line pc. most people will buy the PS4 because it will have some good games that can only be played on the PS4. at least that is the only reason I have a PS3 now and will get a PS4 when it goes slim.

Agreed,

I buy playstations to play sony brand games, not because of its graphics thats comparable to xbox, which both are under the ever evolving Pc world...Pc games actually suck story wise, but they are lush, Sony graphics are the standards complimented with good third party and of course there originals.

I like Nintendo for fun/drama and story games, via Zelda (along with others)

I like Sony because of there partnering with the FF series is the most tight. (along with others)

Xbox for its halo series. (along with others)

I dont care about comparing minor details of games thats on all systems and counting pixels, counting bandwith/loading time, frames per second or what ever, just let me play a good dam game. If we dident evolve from year to year to next gen after next gen, socioty before its predassesor would still have enjoyed the first gen just as good as the last gen players (us the old dogs). I still see little ones digging the old Super-nintendos, the old Ps1's spyro and crash, more so kids just getting mind warped and not being able to understand over artistical God of war 3 type games, good games, but a bit too much all at once, they dont seem to enjoy it and are fine with the last, last, last gens. lol

But as of right now (in general), I wanna be blown away by something (with the right amount of balance to the game) , because sony has been lacking in that department lately...in fact they all have.

 

[Aikouka]

Look at the PS3 for a moment. Its GPU is theoretically on par with a Nvidia 7900 series GPU. Then look at games like Beyond Two Souls, The Last of Us, and Metal Gear Solid Ground Zeroes. I dare you to tell me with a straight face that a PC equipped with a Nvidia 7900 series GPU can pull the same level of graphics, when it's well known that it struggles with Mass Effect 1 at 1280x1024.

What resolution is the PS3 rendering those games at? If other purdy games rendering at sub-720p resolutions are any indication, those probably are as well.

Honestly, what'll most likely make me the most happy about the upcoming consoles is that we'll most likely start getting either medium-to-high-resolution textures on consoles, which will probably lead to them being propagated to PCs. Some games that are released on the PC and consoles just look awful with their low-resolution textures. :\

 

[Carfax83]

PS4 CPU: 102 GFLOP & 8T
i5-3570k CPU: 108.8 GFLOP & 4T
i7-3770k CPU: 112 GFLOP & 8T

Are those figures double precision? Games use single precision if I'm not mistaken..

 

[Pottuvoi]

What resolution is the PS3 rendering those games at? If other purdy games rendering at sub-720p resolutions are any indication, those probably are as well.

What we have seen it's pretty much confirmed that those are native 720p for opaque geometry. (most transparencies have obviously lower resolutions.)

Honestly, what'll most likely make me the most happy about the upcoming consoles is that we'll most likely start getting either medium-to-high-resolution textures on consoles, which will probably lead to them being propagated to PCs. Some games that are released on the PC and consoles just look awful with their low-resolution textures. :\

Yes, next generation will bring quite big changes to PC side as well.
We should see a lot more 64bit binaries and such.