How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC

[Arkaign]

I get the feeling Galego is an AMD shill, he has to be in order to write the ludicrous crap he does on these forums. AMD : hey guys, now that we can't compete on the high end desktop or notebook front, come buy PS4, our APU > 2 Titans! Galego will tell you all about it!!11

It's literally the dumbest series of posts I've ever read on these forums. I expect the PS4 to be a great console, and the inherent efficiencies of console overhead are a plus. But to argue that they are going to be better than even a current decent gaming PC (single GPU, no less) is idiotic beyond belief.

This is not 2005/2006. Microsoft and Sony aren't pushing the envelope with loss-leaders based on bleeding-edge GPUs. They're using x86 products with a low TDP and midrangish specs in order to hit 1080p with respectable graphics and make for a profitable, more reliable product.

 

[NTMBK]

I get the feeling Galego is an AMD shill, he has to be in order to write the ludicrous crap he does on these forums. AMD : hey guys, now that we can't compete on the high end desktop or notebook front, come buy PS4, our APU > 2 Titans! Galego will tell you all about it!!11

I doubt he's a shill; he's hardly helping AMD's reputation, is he? If I was paying him to market for me, he'd have been fired a long time ago.

 

[HurleyBird]

It's literally the dumbest series of posts I've ever read on these forums. I expect the PS4 to be a great console, and the inherent efficiencies of console overhead are a plus. But to argue that they are going to be better than even a current decent gaming PC (single GPU, no less) is idiotic beyond belief.

Given enough time I don't think that's a stupid assumption, but beating titans in SLI is seriously pushing it.

 

[Lepton87]

I doubt he's a shill; he's hardly helping AMD's reputation, is he? If I was paying him to market for me, he'd have been fired a long time ago.

Agreed, I think he's both NV and Intel shill whose sole task is to disparage AMD's reputation and make readers to have an unconscious association that AMD equals idiocy.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Ok, let us know how your rig plays first-party titles.

It does just fine...Socket 1366 paired with a i7 990X,12 GB RAM, SDD's and little Titan GPU sprinkled with a X-Fi and a 7.1 soundsystem....you kow...way above the PS4 hardware.
What was your point again? ^^

That my old rig (which can be upgraded, unlike the PS4) is better than the unrelased PS4? ^^

I knew that Asus PT6 deluxe were a good buy in 2008 ^^

 

[joshhedge]

Yes. Epic representative already explained in eurogamer that due to different cinematics, different lighting, and bugs the early demo cannot be compared visually with the PC version.

Ahahaha

hahaha.

AMD needs to sprinkle some magic pixie dust on Epic.

Epic representative also confirmed that the PS4 is not the super-awesome-mega-powerful-supercharged-ultraPC that you're making it out to be.

 

[galego]

It does just fine...Socket 1366 paired with a i7 990X,12 GB RAM, SDD's and little Titan GPU sprinkled with a X-Fi and a 7.1 soundsystem....you kow...way above the PS4 hardware.
What was your point again? ^^

That my old rig (which can be upgraded, unlike the PS4) is better than the unrelased PS4? ^^

I knew that Asus PT6 deluxe were a good buy in 2008 ^^

The point is rather simple and was emphasized by Timothy Lottes (Nvidia):

PS4 first-party titles will be years ahead of the PC due to the fact that it opens up what is possible with the GPU.

This is easy to understand. The PS4 GPU gives about 1.84 TFLOPs a Titan gives about 4.5 TFLOPs. As we know (Carmak, Huddy, beyond3d devs...) console with the same hardware is between 2 and 3 times faster due to APIs single spec. I link here to Carmack

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176

A 1.84 TFLOPs console is so fast as a PC with a dGPU between 3.68 TFLOPs and 5.52 TFLOPs.

But that is assuming the same hardware and ignoring what has been named the "supercharged PC" architecture not available to your PC: HSA, hUMA, double bus, volatile-bit... If you accoint for those as well, then the PS4 will shine.

The PS4 will play first-party titles beyond the performance of your current PC, but don't worry you can upgrade.

Epic representative also confirmed that the PS4 is not the super-awesome-mega-powerful-supercharged-ultraPC that you're making it out to be.

LOL. You and the other guys are repeating this for days. I did not comment before because it would be too embarrassing for all of you, but if you insist...

First, let us see what the same Epic representative have been saying about the PS4:

It's like giving you the world's best PC

A really perfect gaming PC

Wow! that sound super-awesome, doesn't? Now let us see what EA representative really said:

These architectures are a generation ahead of the highest end PC on the market.

Pay attention to the bold, because here is where EA went wrong. The PS4 is ahead of current high-end gaming PCs and as some developers have noted the PS4 is like a gaming PCs of 2014 or 2015. That is right, but what did EA mean by "generation ahead"?

If you continue reading that EA said, by generation ahead he did mean

five years ahead

Evidently, Mark Rein is right, that EA representative is saying nonsense, because the PS4 is not like a high end PC of 2018.

I already explained here, many times, albeit you guys did expend a considerable amount of effort to ignore it, that a high end gaming PC with the raw performance of 3 titans will outperform the PS4. You don't need to wait to 2018 to buy a PC as that...

 

[BrightCandle]

Its really hard to cut through the marketing. Right now you don't know what NDAs are in place and what state of hardware the developers have and what message Sony and MicroSoft are requiring their "partners" to use when talking about the console since the reveal. Especially when the message doesn't tally with the actual hardware on offer.

The PS4 is basically i3 levels of CPU performance (on GDDR5 which will decrease CPU performance) and a 7790. We are expected to believe from the marketing that this will translate into Titan levels of performance with i7 SB-E levels of performance just because its a console OS instead of Windows. That is kind of an incredible statement to make and it requires a lot more than just "a console is worth 2-3x performance because of Windows". Windows isn't exactly slow, its the most advanced operating system on the planet. It needs a lot more explanation than what has been shown along with some benchmarks to prove that point.

 

[Wall Street]

The PS4 is basically i3 levels of CPU performance (on GDDR5 which will decrease CPU performance) and a 7790.

Can you explain the logic behind GDDR5 decreasing CPU performance?

 

[Spjut]

A good interview with the chief technical officer of 4A, the studio behind Metro Last Light. Second half is about next-gen possibilites. He too says consoles can do at least 2x of what a similar PC can do.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-metro-last-light

 

[Enigmoid]

Can you explain the logic behind GDDR5 decreasing CPU performance?

Possibly higher latency. (Especially if the interface is optimized for throughput rather than speed/latency).

 

[Enigmoid]

A good interview with the chief technical officer of 4A, the studio behind Metro Last Light. Second half is about next-gen possibilites. He too says consoles can do at least 2x of what a similar PC can do.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-metro-last-light

With heavy optimizations. None of which will be present on launch. Furthermore that quote is based on current consoles which are not x86 based (and optimizations could not be carried over to pc).

 

[Makaveli]

I can't believe this thread has gone almost 70 pages and the PS4 isn't even out yet.

All we have is what a dev said to go on.

And people are just running wild with it.

 

[Enigmoid]

The point is rather simple and was emphasized by Timothy Lottes (Nvidia):



This is easy to understand. The PS4 GPU gives about 1.84 TFLOPs a Titan gives about 4.5 TFLOPs. As we know (Carmak, Huddy, beyond3d devs...) console with the same hardware is between 2 and 3 times faster due to APIs single spec. I link here to Carmack

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176

A 1.84 TFLOPs console is so fast as a PC with a dGPU between 3.68 TFLOPs and 5.52 TFLOPs.

But that is assuming the same hardware and ignoring what has been named the "supercharged PC" architecture not available to your PC: HSA, hUMA, double bus, volatile-bit... If you accoint for those as well, then the PS4 will shine.

The PS4 will play first-party titles beyond the performance of your current PC, but don't worry you can upgrade.




LOL. You and the other guys are repeating this for days. I did not comment before because it would be too embarrassing for all of you, but if you insist...

First, let us see what the same Epic representative have been saying about the PS4:

Wow! that sound super-awesome, doesn't? Now let us see what EA representative really said:

Pay attention to the bold, because here is where EA went wrong. The PS4 is ahead of current high-end gaming PCs and as some developers have noted the PS4 is like a gaming PCs of 2014 or 2015. That is right, but what did EA mean by "generation ahead"?

If you continue reading that EA said, by generation ahead he did mean



Evidently, Mark Rein is right, that EA representative is saying nonsense, because the PS4 is not like a high end PC of 2018.

I already explained here, many times, albeit you guys did expend a considerable amount of effort to ignore it, that a high end gaming PC with the raw performance of 3 titans will outperform the PS4. You don't need to wait to 2018 to buy a PC as that...

I'm surprised no one has brought this up but TFLOPS can't be compared like this.

680-3.09 TFLOPS
7970 GHZ - 4.3 TFLOPS
Titan (using gpu boost at 980 mhz) - ~5 TFLOPS.

Using 1080p resolution

7970 ghz is not (4.3/3.09)= 40% faster on average than the 680.

Titan is more than (5/4.3) = 16% faster than the 7970 ghz.

 

[showb1z]

The point is rather simple and was emphasized by Timothy Lottes (Nvidia):



This is easy to understand. The PS4 GPU gives about 1.84 TFLOPs a Titan gives about 4.5 TFLOPs. As we know (Carmak, Huddy, beyond3d devs...) console with the same hardware is between 2 and 3 times faster due to APIs single spec. I link here to Carmack

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176

A 1.84 TFLOPs console is so fast as a PC with a dGPU between 3.68 TFLOPs and 5.52 TFLOPs.

But that is assuming the same hardware and ignoring what has been named the "supercharged PC" architecture not available to your PC: HSA, hUMA, double bus, volatile-bit... If you accoint for those as well, then the PS4 will shine.

The PS4 will play first-party titles beyond the performance of your current PC, but don't worry you can upgrade.




LOL. You and the other guys are repeating this for days. I did not comment before because it would be too embarrassing for all of you, but if you insist...

First, let us see what the same Epic representative have been saying about the PS4:

Wow! that sound super-awesome, doesn't? Now let us see what EA representative really said:

Pay attention to the bold, because here is where EA went wrong. The PS4 is ahead of current high-end gaming PCs and as some developers have noted the PS4 is like a gaming PCs of 2014 or 2015. That is right, but what did EA mean by "generation ahead"?

If you continue reading that EA said, by generation ahead he did mean

five years ahead

Evidently, Mark Rein is right, that EA representative is saying nonsense, because the PS4 is not like a high end PC of 2018.

I already explained here, many times, albeit you guys did expend a considerable amount of effort to ignore it, that a high end gaming PC with the raw performance of 3 titans will outperform the PS4. You don't need to wait to 2018 to buy a PC as that...

I like how you don't link your quotes anymore.

http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130522214715-10904058-the-technology-behind-xbox-one

Where do these "5 years" come from, can't seem to find it.

Carmack and other devs have also said console games will still mostly target 30fps... Still haven't come up with a convoluted reason for that I see?

 

[Spjut]

With heavy optimizations. None of which will be present on launch. Furthermore that quote is based on current consoles which are not x86 based (and optimizations could not be carried over to pc).

It still shows how much greater efficiency consoles bring in comparison to current PCs. We also have Timothy Lottes who has talked specifically about the PS4's hardware.

I don't think any multiplat will run/look better on the PS4 than on a high-end PC, but I don't like seeing how many PC enthusiasts just scoff at the claims of the inefficiency of the PC's current APIs(I admit that console users seem to overestimate it too though)

And let's not forget that while the PS4's GPU is based on GCN and thus has many features in common with AMD's HD 7000 series, the PC's current APIs aren't even exposing all those features.
Games using ID Tech 5 on the consoles could support "Partially Resident Textures", and while it can be exposed on PCs via an OpenGL extension, it's unlikely since it wouldn't work on anything else than the HD 7000 series

 

[Erenhardt]

With heavy optimizations. None of which will be present on launch. Furthermore that quote is based on current consoles which are not x86 based (and optimizations could not be carried over to pc).

But next gen have its own tricks like no PCIe, hUMA.
Can somebody give some source on GDDR5 latency problems and how CPU can't profit from more memory bandwidth? Because "more bandwidth doesn't increase gaming performance now" doesn't mean it can't. And GDDR5 have this odd habit of writing and reading separately. Not like DDR3 where it reads or writes.

 

[Enigmoid]

It still shows how much greater efficiency consoles bring in comparison to current PCs. We also have Timothy Lottes who has talked specifically about the PS4's hardware.

I don't think any multiplat will run/look better on the PS4 than on a high-end PC, but I don't like seeing how many PC enthusiasts just scoff at the claims of the inefficiency of the PC's current APIs(I admit that console users seem to overestimate it too though)

And let's not forget that while the PS4's GPU is based on GCN and thus has many features in common with AMD's HD 7000 series, the PC's current APIs aren't even exposing all those features.
Games using ID Tech 5 on the consoles could support "Partially Resident Textures", and while it can be exposed on PCs via an OpenGL extension, it's unlikely since it wouldn't work on anything else than the HD 7000 series

Current pc and console's can perform quite similarily GFLOP for GFLOP. (skyrim, dishonoured, metro, console ports).

Plus we are talking about 2x over the life of the console.

But next gen have its own tricks like no PCIe, hUMA.
Can somebody give some source on GDDR5 latency problems and how CPU can't profit from more memory bandwidth? Because "more bandwidth doesn't increase gaming performance now" doesn't mean it can't. And GDDR5 have this odd habit of writing and reading separately. Not like DDR3 where it reads or writes.

PCI Express 3.0 x16 has an absolute bandwidth of 32 GB/sec (256 gb/sec). Thats plenty (we don't know the data connection between the gpu and the cpu in the upcoming consoles). Even if upcoming games increased the data traffic over the PCI express bus by a factor of three only a very minor difference would be seen. (Literally only a very small difference is seen on the 2.0 x4 link with ~4 GB/sec). The problem isn't bandwidth but latency.

 

[2is]

A good interview with the chief technical officer of 4A, the studio behind Metro Last Light. Second half is about next-gen possibilites. He too says consoles can do at least 2x of what a similar PC can do.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-metro-last-light

2x of a similar PC is one thing, Tri SLI titans is another

 

[frozentundra123456]

It still shows how much greater efficiency consoles bring in comparison to current PCs. We also have Timothy Lottes who has talked specifically about the PS4's hardware.

I don't think any multiplat will run/look better on the PS4 than on a high-end PC, but I don't like seeing how many PC enthusiasts just scoff at the claims of the inefficiency of the PC's current APIs(I admit that console users seem to overestimate it too though)

And let's not forget that while the PS4's GPU is based on GCN and thus has many features in common with AMD's HD 7000 series, the PC's current APIs aren't even exposing all those features.
Games using ID Tech 5 on the consoles could support "Partially Resident Textures", and while it can be exposed on PCs via an OpenGL extension, it's unlikely since it wouldn't work on anything else than the HD 7000 series

Nobody is arguing that a console is not more efficient. It is just that the ps4 is low end CPU and mid range gpu hardware. A lot of posters are skeptical that the efficiencies of a console will allow the kind of performance that a few posters are claiming and are only supporting by undocumented claims from developers with a vested interest in the console.

 

[Lonbjerg]

The point is rather simple and was emphasized by Timothy Lottes (Nvidia):



This is easy to understand. The PS4 GPU gives about 1.84 TFLOPs a Titan gives about 4.5 TFLOPs. As we know (Carmak, Huddy, beyond3d devs...) console with the same hardware is between 2 and 3 times faster due to APIs single spec. I link here to Carmack

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176

A 1.84 TFLOPs console is so fast as a PC with a dGPU between 3.68 TFLOPs and 5.52 TFLOPs.

But that is assuming the same hardware and ignoring what has been named the "supercharged PC" architecture not available to your PC: HSA, hUMA, double bus, volatile-bit... If you accoint for those as well, then the PS4 will shine.

The PS4 will play first-party titles beyond the performance of your current PC, but don't worry you can upgrade.




LOL. You and the other guys are repeating this for days. I did not comment before because it would be too embarrassing for all of you, but if you insist...

First, let us see what the same Epic representative have been saying about the PS4:

Wow! that sound super-awesome, doesn't? Now let us see what EA representative really said:

Pay attention to the bold, because here is where EA went wrong. The PS4 is ahead of current high-end gaming PCs and as some developers have noted the PS4 is like a gaming PCs of 2014 or 2015. That is right, but what did EA mean by "generation ahead"?

If you continue reading that EA said, by generation ahead he did mean



Evidently, Mark Rein is right, that EA representative is saying nonsense, because the PS4 is not like a high end PC of 2018.

I already explained here, many times, albeit you guys did expend a considerable amount of effort to ignore it, that a high end gaming PC with the raw performance of 3 titans will outperform the PS4. You don't need to wait to 2018 to buy a PC as that...

FUD and false all of it.

If the "draw call limitation" was any real showstopper...PC's today wouldn't have better I.Q. than console games...but they do.

But I will still enjoy my rig born (in 2008) runnin circles around the performance of the PS4.

 

[2is]

I'm surprised no one has brought this up but TFLOPS can't be compared like this.

Oh I believe thy have. Galego just likes to rinse repeat

 

[HeXen]

Specs on paper are still just specs on paper. It's all about what a dev will do with it and rarely do developer's ever efficiently support all of a PC's hardware features at the highest end and scale appropriately to the low end. Performance will always vary from each game comparison as a result of what the developer does.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I liked the Metro article... Such as slow times 2 is still slow (Jaguar), and that UE4 took their advanced GI agarimum out of their tech demo because the PS4 simply couldn't muster the power to run it...

Oles Shishkovstov: The whole industry was held back with current-gen consoles, because they are a very important source of revenue. Now the lowest common denominator will be 10x higher, and that's incredible.

While the PS4 is still crap, this is a massive positive for every PC gamer. We'll still run into the same problem we have now, but at least the bar has been moved up considerably over 2005 tech!

 

[Spjut]

I liked the Metro article... Such as slow times 2 is still slow (Jaguar), and that UE4 took their advanced GI agarimum out of their tech demo because the PS4 simply couldn't muster the power to run it...

You seem to have missed the part that it's too expensive even "Titan-like" hardware