How many Walmart stores has the left prevented from being built?

Fear No Evil

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Nov 14, 2008
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Since the left seems to be champions of private property rights in the building of the 'Near Ground Zero' Mosque and are claiming that opposing building it on the grounds that its inappropriate is somehow against the Constitution I am curious as to how many of these same people have used the exact same tactics as the right to prevent Walmart stores from coming into their neighborhoods?

Its seems fairly routine that the left has used public pressure to prevent Walmart stores from being built, especially in smaller urban areas. They use the argument that its destroys local businesses, they don't treat their employees well and provide them with healthcare, etc. Basically its a 'moral' argument that they should not be built. They use public pressure, threats of boycotts, and the press to their advantage to prevent these stores from being built.

In addition, in the case of cities like Chicago, they actually pass LAWS which try to prevent these stores from being built by forcing Walmart to provide things like insurance to its employees that don't apply to any of its competitors.

How can the left POSSIBLY claim they are champions of private property rights and those who oppose the mosque are acting against the Constitution when they themselves ROUTINELY use not only public pressure but legal tricks to prevent private businesses from being built?

Imagine if the city of New York passed a law that all Mosque's in Manhattan over the value of 50 million dollars must provide healthcare for all the volunteers and employees of the mosque in order to try to prevent it from being built. The left would be outraged, but its exactly what they have done to private business themselves.

The argument that the mosque is inappropriate is no different than saying its 'not fair' that Walmart puts its locally owned competitors out of business. Both arguments are perfectly VALID and LEGAL things to say, but essentially they are just OPINIONS. Why is it OK for the left to use emotional arguments such as putting mom and pop businesses out of business and providing healthcare to its employees when denying a Walmart the right to build on private property but when people speak out against a Mosque being build NEAR ground zero being inappropriate (An emotional argument) the people who do so are suddenly anti-American and acting against the Constitution?

The pro-property rights position and claims that the opponents of the 'Near Ground Zero' Mosque are anti-American and unconstitutional are simply politically motivated hackery by an increasingly desperate political party.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
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Like your sig. I guess it applies to all Americans...except Muslims.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Nope, nothing about Walmart in there.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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There is no problem with peace loving Muslims building a mosque but Walmart is destroying America, no?
 

Sclamoz

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How can the left POSSIBLY claim they are champions of private property rights and those who oppose the mosque are acting against the Constitution when they themselves ROUTINELY use not only public pressure but legal tricks to prevent private businesses from being built?

I'm pretty sure that's the claim of the right/libertarians who like yourself, are largely opposed to the mosque. I'm not a big fan but Ron Paul has covered all your hypocrisy pretty well.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20100820005843/en
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
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Well, it seems like FNE is at least trying to be less of a troll. Someone give him a real answer.

I'm not sure I agree that there is a moral argument being used against Wal-Mart. They are able to utterly obliterate small businesses, for obvious fairly reasons. This in turn leads to less employment opportunity. Wal-Mart has a history of paying extremely low wages with poor benefits, which multiplies the negative impact on the local economy. Sure, you could see some of this as a moral position, but to me it seems more economic.

As for the mosque, the Constitution grants all rights to all people all of the time, not some rights some of the time. Both parties are guilty of constitutionally suspect policies.

My personal opinion of the mosque is that allowing it to be built near Ground Zero would be the ultimate triumph of American ideals over terrorism. Terrorism, by it's very nature, uses fear to change a society. The terrorists will never be militarily strong enough to defeat us, only we can defeat ourselves. If you've never been to a mosque, I suggest you visit one. It can be an eye opening experience.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Not enough, that's for sure. All Buildings need to meet Zoning Requirements amongst other things. Part of those Other Things concerns the Economic affect, specifically for Walmart or other Retail establishments, and is one of the major objections to Walmarts.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
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Like your sig. I guess it applies to all Americans...except Muslims.

Unless that American wants to build a Walmart.. or speak out against a Mosque.. then they don't have rights either according to the left. But keep deflecting. How does the left justify preventing Walmart's from being built through public pressure?
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
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I have still yet to set foot in an actual wal mart. Its too bad that NYC liberal bleeding hearts have prevented a store like that from actually existing.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
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Well, it seems like FNE is at least trying to be less of a troll. Someone give him a real answer.

I'm not sure I agree that there is a moral argument being used against Wal-Mart. They are able to utterly obliterate small businesses, for obvious fairly reasons. This in turn leads to less employment opportunity. Wal-Mart has a history of paying extremely low wages with poor benefits, which multiplies the negative impact on the local economy. Sure, you could see some of this as a moral position, but to me it seems more economic.

So if people opposed the Mosque on grounds that it would have a negative financial impact on Manhattan you'd be OK with that? One could probably make the case that surrounding businesses could be hurt by the protests and boycotts that may occur after its built.
 

IronWing

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Jul 20, 2001
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Yet another thread by a rightwinger in support of corporate dominance of America. Poor, poor oppressed Walmart.
 

sandorski

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Oct 10, 1999
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So if people opposed the Mosque on grounds that it would have a negative financial impact on Manhattan you'd be OK with that? One could probably make the case that surrounding businesses could be hurt by the protests and boycotts that may occur after its built.

From what I hear business in that area has been very poor and many have closed up since 9/11.
 

Carmen813

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May 18, 2007
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So if people opposed the Mosque on grounds that it would have a negative financial impact on Manhattan you'd be OK with that? One could probably make the case that surrounding businesses could be hurt by the protests and boycotts that may occur after its built.

No I would not, as I'd see that as a violation of First Amendment rights. AFAIK, Property rights are a state/local government affair, in this case both of which have approved of building the mosque. At any rate, the right to property doesn't really exist as far as I can tell. That's why eminent domain still exists.

Secondly, corporations are not citizens. They do not have the same rights that people have, they are a legal fiction created to reduce individual risk. They are granted some rights similar to that of a citizen, but not all. That is why I personally believe Citizens United was a bullshit decision.

I know you are proposing a hypothetical, but have you see the street it's being built on? That part of NYC is suffering utter economic devastation. The mosque will be a tremendous boon to that area. Hell, protesters and boy-cotters gotta eat and sleep somewhere :)

Basically, I disagree with your premise that this mosque and a corporation are somehow equivalent.
 
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Fear No Evil

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Nov 14, 2008
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My personal opinion of the mosque is that allowing it to be built near Ground Zero would be the ultimate triumph of American ideals over terrorism. Terrorism, by it's very nature, uses fear to change a society. The terrorists will never be militarily strong enough to defeat us, only we can defeat ourselves. If you've never been to a mosque, I suggest you visit one. It can be an eye opening experience.

Thats your personal opinion. Why aren't people who disagree with that opinion free to say so without being accused of being anti-American and acting against the Constitution?

I'm also not sure why I understand that when Christians oppose things on moral grounds such as abortion that the left will demonize the living HELL out of them. Where is the 'enlightened' view there? Why not show your 'American ideals' in that case and try to understand why Christians are against abortion? The left is only 'tolerant' of things they support. When they DON'T support something their compassion, understanding, and willingness to accept other views goes out the window in an instant.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
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Thats your personal opinion. Why aren't people who disagree with that opinion free to say so without being accused of being anti-American and acting against the Constitution?

I'm also not sure why I understand that when Christians oppose things on moral grounds such as abortion that the left will demonize the living HELL out of them. Where is the 'enlightened' view there? Why not show your 'American ideals' in that case and try to understand why Christians are against abortion? The left is only 'tolerant' of things they support. When they DON'T support something their compassion, understanding, and willingness to accept other views goes out the window in an instant.
You're whining.
 

Fear No Evil

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Nov 14, 2008
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Yet another thread by a rightwinger in support of corporate dominance of America. Poor, poor oppressed Walmart.

Islam is one of the most powerful religions in the world with ~1.5 billion people who are believers. Poor oppressed Islam?
 

sandorski

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Oct 10, 1999
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Thats your personal opinion. Why aren't people who disagree with that opinion free to say so without being accused of being anti-American and acting against the Constitution?

I'm also not sure why I understand that when Christians oppose things on moral grounds such as abortion that the left will demonize the living HELL out of them. Where is the 'enlightened' view there? Why not show your 'American ideals' in that case and try to understand why Christians are against abortion? The left is only 'tolerant' of things they support. When they DON'T support something their compassion, understanding, and willingness to accept other views goes out the window in an instant.

Just because you can say shit, doesn't mean what you say isn't "unamerican", "unConstitutional", or some other nefariousness.
 

Sclamoz

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Sep 9, 2009
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Thats your personal opinion. Why aren't people who disagree with that opinion free to say so without being accused of being anti-American and acting against the Constitution?

I'm also not sure why I understand that when Christians oppose things on moral grounds such as abortion that the left will demonize the living HELL out of them. Where is the 'enlightened' view there? Why not show your 'American ideals' in that case and try to understand why Christians are against abortion? The left is only 'tolerant' of things they support. When they DON'T support something their compassion, understanding, and willingness to accept other views goes out the window in an instant.

How stupid are you dude? I don't support the mosque. I don't want it to be built. But you people blowing a gasket it over are morons and despite all the wasted effort haven't come up with a valid reason to oppose it besides it hurts your little feelings, which is laughable.

And wtf does abortion have to do with this? How about instead of demanding the "left" accept your views you accept muslims and abortion and stop your whining?

Fear No Evil said:
So if people opposed the Mosque on grounds that it would have a negative financial impact on Manhattan you'd be OK with that? One could probably make the case that surrounding businesses could be hurt by the protests and boycotts that may occur after its built.

Financial damages would at least be a reason and maybe something for local government to decide on instead of "but our feelings!"
 
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Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
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No I would not, as I'd see that as a violation of First Amendment rights. AFAIK, Property rights are a state/local government affair, in this case both of which have approved of building the mosque. At any rate, the right to property doesn't really exist as far as I can tell. That's why eminent domain still exists.

Secondly, corporations are not citizens. They do not have the same rights that people have, they are a legal fiction created to reduce individual risk. They are granted some rights similar to that of a citizen, but not all. That is why I personally believe Citizens United was a bullshit decision.

I know you are proposing a hypothetical, but have you see the street it's being built on? That part of NYC is suffering utter economic devastation. The mosque will be a tremendous boon to that area. Hell, protesters and boy-cotters gotta eat and sleep somewhere :)

Basically, I disagree with your premise that this mosque and a corporation are somehow equivalent.

A $100 million dollar Mosque isn't a 'corporation' when its getting funding from all over the world? This isn't Joe Muslim trying to build this thing.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,940
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But if I was a American Muslim Fatass trying to build a mosque at ground zero you'd tolerate me right? :rolleyes:

Nice personal attack though. Got a your mamma joke next?

At least you wouldn't be making moronic arguments against the building of the community center.
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
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Thats your personal opinion. Why aren't people who disagree with that opinion free to say so without being accused of being anti-American and acting against the Constitution?

I'm also not sure why I understand that when Christians oppose things on moral grounds such as abortion that the left will demonize the living HELL out of them. Where is the 'enlightened' view there? Why not show your 'American ideals' in that case and try to understand why Christians are against abortion? The left is only 'tolerant' of things they support. When they DON'T support something their compassion, understanding, and willingness to accept other views goes out the window in an instant.

Because they are being anti-American and against the Constitution. You are entitled to speak your mind...certainly many have. Freedom of Religion is literally the reason White Europeans came to this country, and I find it sad that many are trying to stop it now.

On issues such as abortion or gay marriage, the rage from the left comes from their attempts to write their ideology into law.

I understand the Christian argument against abortion, and I support a Christian's right to protest and use peaceable means to advocate for their position. However, I do NOT support their attempts to legislate their morality into law.

There are those on both the left and right who attempt to demonize opposing views on "moral" issues. Sadly, demagoguery has become even more popular.
 

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