BTW, our religious neighbors leave us alone, too.
Good neighbors by definition should let you live in peace.
Good neighbors by definition should let you live in peace.
As I define it (and it is not the be-all-end-all definition):
All Christians are supposed to be "born again", which means you have a transformation to follow Jesus, and not participate in the sins of the world. That applies to every Christian, from regular church goers, to Bible thumpers.
Evangelists are people who preach the Gospel (Jesus' story). When you preach Jesus' story on TV, you're a TV evangelist. There are people who go door to door teaching the Gospel, and I think people think of this when they think of evangelist.
Fundamentalists are the religious weirdos (according to me....no offense if there are some on the board). They take the Bible literally, meaning they sometimes believe the universe is only 5000 years old, and was created in seven literal days. They sometimes home school their children, don't watch TV or movies, don't like Halloween, don't tell their children about Santa, etc. Fanatics.
Not all christians are protestant born agains. I don't think catholics buy the born again thing. A very born again thing to do is to only consider born-agains to be christians.
See, that's where you're wrong. Don't talk about things you know nothing about. Paul talks about being born again in the New Testament. Catholics follow the New Testament. It's not the same thing you're thinking of (some whacko ritual).
Catholics don't care about the concept of born again like protestants do. Accept it. Catholics are not born again according to the popular meaning of born again.
Do you ever stop assuming? I never said anything about rituals.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,779
- 6,339
- 126
Most Evangelicals are Post-Pentecostals, but usually include Pentecostals as well. Evangelical is quite a diverse group, but Pentecostals definitely are part of that group and highly influential.
From 13-19 I was an Evangelical Penteostal/Non-Denominational Christian, though as a Canadian that has a somewhat different definition than the US equivalent. In many ways I still am, holding the teachings of Jesus in high regard, but I have chosen not to be active as such since leaving home.
Often the terms Evangelical and Fundamentalist get used as they are the same thing, but there are differences. Evangelical comes from the word Evangelist(one who spreads the Gospel) and denotes Christian groups that actively spread the Gospel. OTOH, a Fundamentalist Christian generally holds to the fundamentals of Christianity(I believe there are 5) which basically are(IIRC):
1) Virgin Birth
2) Salvation through Grace
3) Jesus died for the Sins of Mankind(Humanity) and rose from the dead
4) Baptism
5) Partaking of the Lord's Supper
(not exactly sure whether the last 2 points are part of the fundamentals)
That said, often Fundamentalists are Evangelicals and vice-versa, but there are significant portions that only belong to one or the other as well.
Neither Fundamentalism nor Evangelicalism really accounts for the Political aspect so prominent in the US, that seems to be something else entirely new and recent. Both groups have always existed during the history of the US and have certainly been very influential, but the current Political Activism of the Christian Right is really a recent phenomena(last few decades) that draws much of its' support from those 2 groups. Groups like the Moral Majority are certainly the pioneers of current Christian Right power, but there are other groups responsible for it as well.
IMO, the worst part of the Christian Right is not really their Moralism, it is their desire to impose their Moralism on others and their willingness to adopt completely non-Christain Idealism of the Political Party(Republican) that they have a Power Base in. The Darwinistic Capitalism common in the Republican Party is simply not is synch with Christain thought, yet the Christian Right has taken it as their own. These 2 Idealisms, Moralism and Darwinistic Capitalism, feed off each other and developes a mindset of Extremism.
How? Moralism is fairly Black and White, Do this, don't Do that. Failure to do so has negative consequences. Most of it is just good advice and common sense, but some of it in itself is extreme and unnecessary. The Moralist sees a Happy, successful person as Moral(unless that person is obviously in contravention of the Moral Codes).
Darwinistic Capitalism has a similar attitude: The Wealthy successful person deserves it, the Poor unsuccessful person deserves it. It is as Black and White as the Moralists view of the World. That's not too Extreme, but the contradiction between the 2 comes from one significant factor: Most Western Moralists being of the Christian variety are charged by Jesus to be generous to the Needy within Society, going beyond the bare minimum. OTOH, the Darwinistic Capitalist has no such desire at all, it would rather not even see a Needy person nevermind actually help that person(note: not all Capitalists are Darwinistic). This same attitude has taken hold of the Christian Right in the US.
Catholics don't even adhere to the principle of being "born again" (I hate that term now; it's been heavily abused), or they equate being born again with baptism (which doesn't agree with biblical theology). So Infohawk is right on this one.
See the website "The Berean Call" in my signature if you want to see a fundamentalist website. I actually think Red Dawn wouldn't be terribly offended by it.
I didn't know a single protestant until I was in my 20's.
growing up, everyone I knew was either catholic, jewish, or hindu.
growing up, everyone I knew was either catholic, jewish, or hindu.
Yeah i knew a few religous fundamentalists in highschool. He said that the world was 5000 years old, carbon dating is a joke, darwin had absolutely no idea and was actually confused by the devil, dinosaur bones were laid by the devil to confuse us, and he even got into an argument with our HISTORY professor as to why they don't teacher creationism in school....none the less he able to speak with me, althought it was at his insistance that he does because he saw me as a nice guy who shouldn't have to burn in hell for my sins (sins that apparantly i had before i was born?). nonethessl i see him occaisonally~
on the other hand i knoe another evangelical and she is REALLY nice and we usually got into cool religous discussions~ she was into that whole speaking in tongues tho~ but i haven't seen either since highschool. probably somewhere at biola or something
I have quite a few of these in my family. Ten or 15 years ago all were your average church going folks and moderate politically. Somehow they have just lost it and moved far to the right. I just love the statements like "you can't be a Christian and vote for Kerry" or "it's in the bible that blacks and whites shouldn't marry" and I wouldn't want to relate what they think of gays. These are people I love and it kills me that they have become so wacked!
I have and I just tell them that I was raised Catholic. Then they tell me that I worship idols and that Catholicism is not Christianity then I say "Pffffft". Anyways one of my uncle's on my dad side of the family and his wife are born again's as well. They tell my parents that watching tv is evil and that they should spend more time in church. Then I laugh when I realize how much of a drunk my uncle and his wife are and how much time they waste going to church functions rather then going to work.
I also got another uncle on my mom's side of the family that went born again as well. I won't go into to much details but the damn idiot let his youngest daughter get molested by some dude who used to preach to them and converted him and his wife. That idiot is still in denial about the whole thing. How many preachers have private sessions with 13 year old girls for 2-3 hours several times a week ?? Apparently he had convinced them that he was rooting out satan's influences and instilling the light of Christ within their child during the sessions. Fucking idiot !!!!!!!! Thank god I didn't live anywhere near them at the time because I would of grabbed my 12 gauge and introduced that fake ass con man to the Catholic patron saint of bucket shot.
I also got another uncle on my mom's side of the family that went born again as well. I won't go into to much details but the damn idiot let his youngest daughter get molested by some dude who used to preach to them and converted him and his wife. That idiot is still in denial about the whole thing. How many preachers have private sessions with 13 year old girls for 2-3 hours several times a week ?? Apparently he had convinced them that he was rooting out satan's influences and instilling the light of Christ within their child during the sessions. Fucking idiot !!!!!!!! Thank god I didn't live anywhere near them at the time because I would of grabbed my 12 gauge and introduced that fake ass con man to the Catholic patron saint of bucket shot.
yhelothar
Lifer
- Dec 11, 2002
- 18,409
- 39
- 91
Yes this guy that sat next to my in english class my senior year of high school was one.
He always cites fox news to bash kerry :laugh:, he proclaimed it the world's best news network.
He always gives these lame ridiculous arguments for creationism and proof of God. And when I snap back at him with a good argument, he tells me to go talk to his pastor about it because he doesn't understand it.
He always cites fox news to bash kerry :laugh:, he proclaimed it the world's best news network.
He always gives these lame ridiculous arguments for creationism and proof of God. And when I snap back at him with a good argument, he tells me to go talk to his pastor about it because he doesn't understand it.
From your posts, I can only assert that you have never had an open-minded discussion with an 'evangelical' Christian. I, as a non-fundamentalist, have and I found it quite enlightening. Regardless of reality, you would decry it because that's what trolls do - spout out ignorance in hopes of convincing others to join your side.
Are you Catholic? Do you know what the Catholic teachings are in this area? Doesn't sound like it, so kindly shut your piehole. I won't stand by while you ignorantly bash someone else's religion and I certainly won't stand by while you throw out ignorant statements about mine.
This is something that I find completely hypocritical of the left in our country. You can't force your beliefs on anyone, but the leftists can force their socialist principles on me. I can't vote for the government to restrict abortion, but you can vote for the government to take my money and give it away. Why is my belief, that private charities are a much more efficient vehicle for distribution of wealth, cast aside and your beliefs forced on me, yet I am decried when I speak out on other issues for trying to force my beliefs on everyone else?
Man, when will people stop rambling on about something they know nothing about? I know it's hard for you to accept this concept, because it would dispute your theory that all "born again" Christians are fundamentalist boogeymen. Will you believe www.catholic.com?
If Jesus said that in the Bible, how can any Christian claim to not be born again?
From the website:
That is the ritual that fundamentalist Christians believe is the prerequisite to being born again. And it's what you mean when you think of "born again". But I'm here to tell you that you can't take their distorted meaning, and apply it across the board. There are plenty of sane, fair Christians who consider themselves born again, and they're not always the religious whackos you're thinking about. I agree the term "Evangelical" can also mean the fundamentalist fanatics, but I also wanted to point out the true meaning of the word, so people understand that it doesn't always mean what you think it does.
And what's the problem if elections go the way of the Religious Right? It's not as though they're misrepresenting the mainstream. Last time I checked, this is a democracy. If there are more Religious Right voters than atheist liberal voters, then the Religious Right will win. What is unfair about that?
You act as if the Christians are pulling some scheme to take control of the country. In a democracy, the will of the people is revealed in election results. And in this election, more voters sided with the Republican definition of values than the Democrats'. Do you honestly feel that a majority of Americans disagree with the Republican/Religious viewpoint, and your side got screwed? I don't. I think a fair election was held, and the people spoke. This country is being run by the majority. More people want traditional values. Face it.
You act as if the Christians are pulling some scheme to take control of the country. In a democracy, the will of the people is revealed in election results. And in this election, more voters sided with the Republican definition of values than the Democrats'. Do you honestly feel that a majority of Americans disagree with the Republican/Religious viewpoint, and your side got screwed? I don't. I think a fair election was held, and the people spoke. This country is being run by the majority. More people want traditional values. Face it.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
Yep 3 1/2 million more. Do you know that even with that margin of victory if 130,000 voters would have voted for Kerry in Ohin instead of for the Dub Kerry would have won the election? The Relpublicans would have blown a gaskett is they had garnered 3 million more vote and lost due to the Elelctoral College giving Kerry the Victory
Because it's contrary to my personal beliefs. I believe that I can more effectively distribute those funds personally, so the left is forcing its socialist beliefs on me. The government should only take funds to provide services for EVERYONE, not individuals. Stop trying to force your views on me!
I read the site and it conforms with my view that Catholics take a completely different view of born again. To the point where lumping in Catholics with "born agains" is intellectually dishonest.
From the site:
Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."
I answered your questions. I am not at all surprised that you cut and run and failed to answer mine like you said you would. :thumbsdown:
You and rob need to stop with the appeals to authority. It is wholly irrelevant what my personal experience is with Catholocism. If you look at www.catholocism.com it clearly shows that it is unwise to lump protestant born-agains with catholics.
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