Discussion How many illegals do you think live in America?

[Dr. Detroit]

Many anecdotal stories about legals getting hired at a living wage when a plant full of illegals is raided - If you increase wages, unemployed folks will gladly re-enter the workforce.

After ICE Raids, a Reckoning in Mississippi’s Chicken Country (Published 2019)

A series of federal immigration raids swept up nearly 700 undocumented workers, creating opportunities — and some ethical concerns — for American-born residents.

www.nytimes.com

After Mississippi ICE raids, job fair draws hopeful workers

FOREST, Miss. (AP) — Days after immigration agents arrested 680 Latino workers in a massive workplace sting at seven Mississippi chicken processing plants, job seekers flocked to an employment...

apnews.com

 

[Jaskalas]

I think we got bigger problems than illegal entry.

However, controlling and stopping it, cutting it down to mere thousands is an obvious requirement in order to achieve stability and sustainability. Our consumption of resources must flat line to say the least. Our population must stop growing. Letting it continue unchecked has obvious consequences. You'd be insane to face the facts and let it continue.

 

[1prophet]

You don't think construction or cooking, for example, are honorable or needed skills? How do you think that nicely packaged bowl of produce got picked that you have in your fridge or package of meat cuts? Superfluous? Not needed?

Why don't you ask all the contractors and restaurants and farms hiring these people. And the people enjoying the fruits of their labor.

As long as they get paid the same living wages, healthcare, and have all the same labor rights as legal workers including unionization, they, the business owners can enjoy the fruits of their labors, but then somehow the incentive to hire illegals will magically vanish because their labor won't be any cheaper.

Americans have been brainwashed by corporate America that cheaper is not only better but their right unless they are the ones being asked to work for less, then bring on the outsourced Chinese slaves or their cheap illegal Mexican slaves, and then they cry about their ever dwindling middle class lifestyle so the rich get richer, while they struggle to make ends meet.

Sadly this poisonous ideology did not stay on the republican side but has infected the liberal democrats who have abandoned facts for feels at the behest of their corporate puppet masters who allow the democrat leadership to partake in the corporate pig trough as a reward for subverting the American middle class while pretending to care about living wages, unions, etc. and all the other things they used to defend in deeds not just words when they were the party of the working class.

Who Lost the White Working Class?

Why did the white working class abandon the Democrats? The conventional answer is Republicans skillfully played the race card. In the wake of the Civil Rights Act, segregationists like Alabama...

robertreich.org

 

[dank69]

The country barely had 100 million back then....now we are close to 400 million and really don't need more.

The roads are jammed up enough.
The schools are jammed up enough.
The hospitals are jammed up enough.
The employment opportunities are jammed up enough.

PS: We can make our own babies.....MADE IN AMERICA!!!

Or, we could use our tax revenue to improve our infrastructure instead of giving it back to the billionaires that own you.

 

[K1052]

I think we got bigger problems than illegal entry.

However, controlling and stopping it, cutting it down to mere thousands is an obvious requirement in order to achieve stability and sustainability. Our consumption of resources must flat line to say the least. Our population must stop growing. Letting it continue unchecked has obvious consequences. You'd be insane to face the facts and let it continue.

Denying more people a better standard of living in the name of preserving America's extremely wasteful use of resources seems morally questionable, at best.

 

[K1052]

it's only tax dollars

Illegal workers pay an ocean of taxes for benefits they will never receive. $7B annually into Social Security alone as one example.

 

[brycejones]

I think we got bigger problems than illegal entry.

However, controlling and stopping it, cutting it down to mere thousands is an obvious requirement in order to achieve stability and sustainability. Our consumption of resources must flat line to say the least. Our population must stop growing. Letting it continue unchecked has obvious consequences. You'd be insane to face the facts and let it continue.

You do you have your authoritarian streak.

 

[brycejones]

Or, we could use our tax revenue to improve our infrastructure instead of giving it back to the billionaires that own you.

That sounds like Marxism!

 

[nOOky]

Our neighbors recently had a new roof, siding, and windows installed. The trucks that showed up said "First American Roofing and Siding" on them. The workers were all Hispanic, the supervisors white guys. I had to laugh at the irony of it, because they definitely use illegals here, otherwise they couldn't stay in business. I suspect this is the case across much of the country. It's obvious we do not want to address the illegal immigration issue because they perform a valuable service to our country. Even the current POTUS employs undocumented immigrants at his clubs.

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[s0me0nesmind1]

Illegal workers pay an ocean of taxes for benefits they will never receive. $7B annually into Social Security alone as one example.

Y... Yes? While people that hire under the table (home depot, day labor, etc..) won't pay taxes, the large corps that hire illegals still aren't stupid enough to not do employer paycheck requirements such as deducting FICA taxes (SS / Medicare @ 7.65%). It will be part of their defense reasoning if and when they do get caught down the line.

Is 7B supposed to be some large sum of money or something? Because it isn't? Our 2020 FY budget for the US was 4.79T. So that's roughly 0.00146, or 0.14% of our net costs.

That's also with me being generous, part of that 7B could be from the employer paid portion of the 15.2% FICA taxes, and it doesn't at all take into account the net costs that are caused by illegal migration which entirely negates your 7B amount that is essentially just CYA money from illegal hiring companies. So.... Yeah.... Nice try lol.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Our neighbors recently had a new roof, siding, and windows installed. The trucks that showed up said "First American Roofing and Siding" on them. The workers were all Hispanic, the supervisors white guys. I had to laugh at the irony of it, because they definitely use illegals here, otherwise they couldn't stay in business. I suspect this is the case across much of the country. It's obvious we do not want to address the illegal immigration issue because they perform a valuable service to our country. Even the current POTUS employs undocumented immigrants at his clubs.

WI's Top Roofing Company | First American Roofing & Siding

Looking for expert roofing in Wisconsin? First American Roofing & Siding delivers top-quality craftsmanship and reliable service. Contact us today!

firstamericanroofing.com

So what you're saying is... The worst thing that could happen is that we pay people more reasonable wages for dangerous and backbreaking work courtesy of supply and demand?

What a horrible outcome....

 

[K1052]

Y... Yes? While people that hire under the table (home depot, day labor, etc..) won't pay taxes, the large corps that hire illegals still aren't stupid enough to not do employer paycheck requirements such as deducting FICA taxes (SS / Medicare @ 7.65%). It will be part of their defense reasoning if and when they do get caught down the line.

Is 7B supposed to be some large sum of money or something? Because it isn't? Our 2020 FY budget for the US was 4.79T. So that's roughly 0.00146, or 0.14% of our net costs.

That's also with me being generous, part of that 7B could be from the employer paid portion of the 15.2% FICA taxes, and it doesn't at all take into account the net costs that are caused by illegal migration which entirely negates your 7B amount that is essentially just CYA money from illegal hiring companies. So.... Yeah.... Nice try lol.

The usual implication of complaining about taxes when it comes to illegal workers is that they don't pay any when that is not true. They pay lots of taxes and get fewer benefits. I've got no idea why you are using the entire fed budget for comparison.

 

[BoomerD]

Denying more people a better standard of living in the name of preserving America's extremely wasteful use of resources seems morally questionable, at best.

They're welcome to apply for entrance the legal way...and...they're OUR recources to waste if we want. (and I'd prefer we didn't waste them...most are pretty finite)

 

[K1052]

They're welcome to apply for entrance the legal way...and...they're OUR recources to waste if we want. (and I'd prefer we didn't waste them...most are pretty finite)

Unless I am mistaken he also opposes legal immigration.

 

[BoomerD]

As long as they get paid the same living wages, healthcare, and have all the same labor rights as legal workers including unionization, they, the business owners can enjoy the fruits of their labors, but then somehow the incentive to hire illegals will magically vanish because their labor won't be any cheaper.

Americans have been brainwashed by corporate America that cheaper is not only better but their right unless they are the ones being asked to work for less, then bring on the outsourced Chinese slaves or their cheap illegal Mexican slaves, and then they cry about their ever dwindling middle class lifestyle so the rich get richer, while they struggle to make ends meet.

Sadly this poisonous ideology did not stay on the republican side but has infected the liberal democrats who have abandoned facts for feels at the behest of their corporate puppet masters who allow the democrat leadership to partake in the corporate pig trough as a reward for subverting the American middle class while pretending to care about living wages, unions, etc. and all the other things they used to defend in deeds not just words when they were the party of the working class.

Who Lost the White Working Class?

Why did the white working class abandon the Democrats? The conventional answer is Republicans skillfully played the race card. In the wake of the Civil Rights Act, segregationists like Alabama...

robertreich.org

I've argued for years that the USA needs a GOOD, properly run guest worker program so the farmers can have their lower wage workers for the season.
1. Properly screen the applicants including health screening.
2. Require the farmers/ag contractors to provide housing and meals.
3. Hold 50% of the wages earned in an interest-bearing account until the worker returns to his/her country.
4. Bar anyone who overstays the program from participating for a time.
5. Heavily fine any farmer/ag contractor who abuses the program...including criminal penalties for ripping off the workers wages.

 

[BoomerD]

Unless I am mistaken he also opposes legal immigration.

I'm fine with SOME legal immigration, but I think we need to be more selective about who we let in.

 

[kt]

You think it's a dumb assumption to understand that having the communication language that the majority of the population speaks can immensely help you when it comes to relationships, career progression, what you can accomplish, how you learn things?

Okay buddy, whatever you want to tell yourself at night.

Just because of your inability to learn a different language does not preclude others from doing the same. Growing up in Sweden, we learn to speak at least 2 languages (Swedish and English) and we get to learn a third language by 5th grade. There was a time that America pride themselves as a melting pot, but now they frown upon people who dare to speak another language other than English.

Yea buddy, I sleep well at night knowing I am part of the solution and not the problem. You sleep well at night because ignorance is a bliss.

 

[K1052]

I'm fine with SOME legal immigration, but I think we need to be more selective about who we let in.

I'd have to know what "more selective" meant in this context to have an opinion on that.

 

[ivwshane]

I'm fine with SOME legal immigration, but I think we need to be more selective about who we let in.

According to this chart, right?

 

[sportage]

Yeah... too many damn it and I think I’ll go back to where I came from, or should I say where my great great grandfather came from. Switzerland.

 

[nOOky]

So what you're saying is... The worst thing that could happen is that we pay people more reasonable wages for dangerous and backbreaking work courtesy of supply and demand?

What a horrible outcome....

I'll say we should target the source, which is the employers, who can hire them at will, and never be held responsible for it. Then the poor bastards that cry socialism at the top of their lungs can pay an American worker American-like wages and like it.

 

[BoomerD]

I'd have to know what "more selective" meant in this context to have an opinion on that.

criminal background vetting, thorough medical testing, ability/skills to support themselves so they don't end up on the public dole...desirable, documented job skills and/or education. We really don't need MORE unskilled laborers or nannies.

 

[BoomerD]

According to this chart, right?

OK...if that's your qualification standard...but it ain't mine.

 

[hal2kilo]

That sounds like Marxism!

Reminds me of a PBS show I just saw about bird brains. It's amazing that in nature social birds have figured out that corporation works out for all of them to have food. Man still has a way to go.

 

[K1052]

criminal background vetting, thorough medical testing, ability/skills to support themselves so they don't end up on the public dole...desirable, documented job skills and/or education. We really don't need MORE unskilled laborers or nannies.

Like is a guy who can roof skilled? Or do we cut that off at plumbers?

Also hell yeah we could use more nannies and childcare workers. People are paying for childcare what it would cost to send those kids to college at this point. With our aging population we need a buttload more nurses too.

The bulk of immigration these days is family based also so some decisions would have to be made about that. We're probably not going to be super a super attractive place for people to make a life long term if we stopped people from bringing their wives/kids/parents/etc.