How do you carry an M-16 rifle?

[HappyPuppy]

First, to explain, check out the DVD cover of Black Hawk Down, here:

Black Hawk Down

Ok, you notice how the butt of the rifle is resting on top of the soldier's upper arm? I've noticed this a lot lately in movies, pictures and newsclips. Everybody seems to be carrying the M-16 with the butt pointing up in the air. I can understand, possibly, that there may be a safety issue involved because the muzzle is pointed at the ground and there would be less chance of accidentally shooting someone.

Are our soldiers trained to carry their rifles this way, or is it just some Hollywood cr@p like everybody firing semi-automatic pistols sideways so that the shell casings are ejected straight up in the air so that they can fall on your head?

I have some past experience carrying loaded M-16's in a hostile environment and I never carried it like that nor did I ever see anyone else doing it.

Any info would be appreciated.

 

[ajskydiver]

This may have changed, but while I was in the army...the front of the M-16 (you know, where the bullets come from) *always* had to be pointed straight down while onboard (Black Hawk & Sh!thook, errr Chinook) the aircraft...other than those two, I can't say.

They had lots of rules that civilians may find "funny".

~AJ

Oh yeah, and if you were sitting in the door frame...you pointed your weapon outside of the aircraft...something about accidental discharges...hitting engines, soldiers or something

 

[Shelly21]

I was just reading the article on a game put out by the US Army, and they mention how it is suppose to be authentic.

Like M-16 will jam occasionally while AK-47 will never jam.

I didn't know that.... I always thought M-16 looks better.




<--- like guns, but dislike games.

 

[HappyPuppy]

I understand the muzzle being pointed at the ground, but you can do that with the butt in your armpit. It just looked curious to me.

 

[Jmmsbnd007]

That is SO unsafe. The correct position would be to keep the muzzle up. Why? Well, if the gun were to discharge, the bullet would go straight up and it woulden't hurt our precious earth! It would "safely" fall down and probably not hit someone on the head. All in the name of saving the earth.

 

[cmdavid]

bigger pic
and your question.. i have no idea...

 

[Cyberian]

How do you carry an M-16 rifle?

Proudly.

 

[Rallispec]

Originally posted by: Shelly21
I was just reading the article on a game put out by the US Army, and they mention how it is suppose to be authentic.
.

this game actually looks pretty cool... i've already signed up to get my free copy when its released

 

[Mutilator]

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007
That is SO unsafe. The correct position would be to keep the muzzle up. Why? Well, if the gun were to discharge, the bullet would go straight up and it woulden't hurt our precious earth! It would "safely" fall down and probably not hit someone on the head. All in the name of saving the earth.

That's like saying dropping a penny off the top of the empire state building would safely fall to the ground without hurting anybody.

 

[BD2003]

Ten bucks the us army is invincible in this game.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Quote

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How do you carry an M-16 rifle?
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Proudly.
___________________________________________________

And I would add "With malice towards the enemy."

 

[Jmmsbnd007]

Originally posted by: Mutilator

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007
That is SO unsafe. The correct position would be to keep the muzzle up. Why? Well, if the gun were to discharge, the bullet would go straight up and it woulden't hurt our precious earth! It would "safely" fall down and probably not hit someone on the head. All in the name of saving the earth.

That's like saying dropping a penny off the top of the empire state building would safely fall to the ground without hurting anybody.

NO! You bastard! Now we all have to start that age-old debate of what WOULD happen if you dropped a penny off the empire state building!

 

[burnedout]

Aj_UF is correct.

Normally during airmobile operations, the crew chiefs of the birds become rather annoyed (read: PO'd) if the soldier's weapon isn't pointed down while in flight. This includes M16s, M60s, M249s, etc.

If you have the opportunity to observe the 101st ABN (Air Assault) during training, you'll see soldiers sit in the jump seats with weapons between their legs and pointed down. Special Ops (Rangers, SF, Delta, etc.) typically bend the rules a bit more.

I was with the 101st before they put the jump seats back in the Blackhawks. We'd typically cram 19-21 soldiers in the cabin sitting on our butts and rucks. Regardless of the amount of soldiers on board, the muzzle of the weapon was still pointed down towards the floor of the aircraft.

Obviously this SOP was conceived for a number of reasons such as errant rounds from misfires going into engines, or even other soldiers in the event of a hard landing. Additionally, the flash suppressor on the muzzle was deemed more dangerous than the butt of the stock in a crash.

This SOP was in effect in 1980. From what a crusty old NCO told me back then, the practice began after Vietnam.

 

[Rallispec]

back to question though-- yes-- point the gun down-- but where is the best place for the butt of the gun?

over your elbow like in the picture? or under your armpit?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Mutilator

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007
That is SO unsafe. The correct position would be to keep the muzzle up. Why? Well, if the gun were to discharge, the bullet would go straight up and it woulden't hurt our precious earth! It would "safely" fall down and probably not hit someone on the head. All in the name of saving the earth.

That's like saying dropping a penny off the top of the empire state building would safely fall to the ground without hurting anybody.

no, because the earth is flat

 

[HappyPuppy]

If you're on a search and destroy mission in an enemy village it just doesn't seem functional to have the damn butt of the rifle pointing up in the air. At least if it's under your armpit you have better control of the weapon and you can begin squeezing off rounds quicker. Also, if it's under your armpit you can still have the muzzle pointed at the ground in somewhat less dangerous situations.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
If you're on a search and destroy mission in an enemy village it just doesn't seem functional to have the damn butt of the rifle pointing up in the air. At least if it's under your armpit you have better control of the weapon and you can begin squeezing off rounds quicker. Also, if it's under your armpit you can still have the muzzle pointed at the ground in somewhat less dangerous situations.

During room-to-room/building-to-building clearing (MOUT), it is also more effective to carry the weapon just as you describe. Yet in a friendly aircraft or even in the back of a Bradley, its much safer carrying the weapon with the muzzle pointed towards the floor of the aircraft/vehicle.

 

[ajskydiver]

over your elbow like in the picture? or under your armpit?

Over the elbow is a method generally preferred for close combat or indoor use because it allows the user to track the weapon back and forth more quickly...a relatively new technique for the "average" infantryman...other groups have been using it much longer. Of course, to clear a room, the M-16 is NOT the preferred weapon -- but it is very versatile.

~AJ

 

[Mutilator]

If you look at the picture you'll notice that he's squatting down...
Yes you'd have the butt of the gun under your arm pit/on the front of your shoulder while you're up and walking around... but I'd like to see you put it under your armpit while you're squatting... you'd either look like a retard propped up on your gun, or you'd do what comes naturally and slide it infront of your arm pit where you can still brace the gun on your shoulder should you have to fire it quickly.

 

[HappyPuppy]

I've never seen a man carrying a loaded M-16 who I would call a retard for any reason.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: Aj_UF

over your elbow like in the picture? or under your armpit?

Over the elbow is a method generally preferred for close combat or indoor use because it allows the user to track the weapon back and forth more quickly...a relatively new technique for the "average" infantryman...other groups have been using it much longer. Of course, to clear a room, the M-16 is NOT the preferred weapon -- but it is very versatile.

~AJ

Correct. Doctrine began to change during the early-90s in regards to weapons carry in close quarters.

The preferred weapon for a typical grunt unit to clear a room was a 12 ga. shotgun in the old days. Actually, a grenade is best, depending upon the construction of the facility. M4s are very good, IMO.

During Vietnam, there was a rather nasty situation with using grenades in and around grass huts. Seems soldiers were trained at Fort Polk and Fort Benning to pull the pin, cook it off and then toss her in through a window or doorway, thereby sending Charlie to hell. Problem was, when the soldier moved back, the wall went up with him.

Soldiers fight as they train.

 

[Cyberian]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you carry an M-16 rifle?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proudly.
___________________________________________________

And I would add "With malice towards the enemy."

Yup!!

I thought that part was understood!

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Mutilator

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007
That is SO unsafe. The correct position would be to keep the muzzle up. Why? Well, if the gun were to discharge, the bullet would go straight up and it woulden't hurt our precious earth! It would "safely" fall down and probably not hit someone on the head. All in the name of saving the earth.

That's like saying dropping a penny off the top of the empire state building would safely fall to the ground without hurting anybody.

It would, unless you're one of those people who thinks that there is no air around the empire state building. Terminal velocity for a penny is not that fast.

 

[HappyPuppy]

During Viet Nam when the M-16 was first introduced there were no real protocols for it. Hell, you were lucky if one man in a squad had a cleaning kit and knew how to break it down. They were extremely unreliable and it wasn't uncommon to toss or sling your M-16 and pick up a VC AK-47 and ammo. They were very reliable.

 

[Bobomatic]

speaking of AK 47s, does anyone oknow why the US doesent use it, or make a varitation of it, if it doesent(or not as often) jam?