How do we change the mindset of the poor to get them out of poverty?

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QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
I think it is unfair that there are fat people and fit people. As a solution to this, I think we should make all the fit people exercise for the poor people. By exercising for them, we can lift them out their burden of being fat. The fit people won't mind at all, after all they are fit and good at working out already. They won't mind having to work out twice as much for the fat people. After all, it's not fair that they were gifted with better genetics, eating habits, etc.
 

Sea Ray

Golden Member
May 30, 2013
1,459
31
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There's human nature at work here. In general us humans need an incentive to work. As a society we need people to be productive. It's not a good situation if more people are sitting around with their "necessity check" from Uncle Sam and then decide it's not worth it to find a job. We need to incentivize people to work hard. That's been America's strength for 200 years but we're getting away from that now
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
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Leave the poor as is.

We all know money and help needs to go to those who already have tons of it. For example, say a company is making billions in profits,.. well, we should give that company millions of dollars in subsidies from tax payer money.

No money, from the government, should ever go to the needy.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,890
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You stop helping them and let them starve and die so they can see what its like to actually be poor. Only then will they change their ways and want to better themselves. Free hand outs and food stamps/.welfare etc is not the way.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
You stop helping them and let them starve and die so they can see what its like to actually be poor. Only then will they change their ways and want to better themselves. Free hand outs and food stamps/.welfare etc is not the way.

I'd agree with you except for the fact that the poor would turn to violent crime long before they starved and died
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
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I'd agree with you except for the fact that the poor would turn to violent crime long before they starved and died

And then you'll have a good enough reason to gun them down. You no longer have to cook up wacky stories about how loud music is threatening your life.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
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What is the mentality of the poor? Is there such a generalization?

Poor people are poor, because they spend their money on:
- drugs
- abortions
- TV
- iPhones
- Tattoos
- illegal guns
- bail

So, they are drug addicted, baby killing, TV watching, iPhone using tattooed criminals that carry weapons and want free stuff.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
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Poor people are poor, because they spend their money on:
- drugs
- abortions
- TV
- iPhones
- Tattoos
- illegal guns
- bail

So, they are drug addicted, baby killing, TV watching, iPhone using tattooed criminals that carry weapons and want free stuff.

That is a gross oversimplification by any estimation.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
What is the mentality of the poor? Is there such a generalization?
Complicated question. In the first world, there's very definitely a mentality that will more likely lead to being poor than it will produce success. It's living in a land that DOES have opportunities for those willing to do what's required to take advantage of them- and yet falling for all the ruses that says you can't succeed (usuall pushed by poltical hack assholes) then living in a way where your focus is on things that pretty much will lead to a life of poverty- IE: spending all your time in a street gang terrorizing your own neighborhood instead of doing something productive, spending all your time learning something like being a rap star or a basketball player, rather than something you might actually stand a shot in hell of doing successfully.

On one side of town, you have a culture of people pushing their kids to study, learn useful skills, become doctors, CPAs, engineers, whatever- that wouldn't begin for one second to tolerate their kids roaming the streets at all hours, getting involved in crime, wasting too much of their time on things unlikely to get them anywhere- that's a community more likely to succeed.

On the other side of town you have a culture embracing exactly the opposite- not giving a shit if their kids study or not, in fact yelling at their teachers for any attempt at discipline. Kids roaming the street at all hours? What's the big deal? Focusing all their time and energy on things more likely to land them in a jail cell than an office earning money? So what? That's the culture. So be it. It's also one leading to poverty and a shitty life more than it is success.


Meanwhile- you have poor people around the world who don't have the benefit of living in the first world, who have exactly the opposite mindset- they WANT to get the hell out of poverty, and understand what it actually takes to do so. All many of them really require is a system where it's even possible to do so. Even with no money, many of them encourage their kids to focus on education, and don't put up with bullshit excuses.

It's why you can pluck a person out of that environment -with the mindset of wanting to improve themselves- stick them in the first world, and they will see opportunity literally *everywhere* and often do well.

It's no secret with me: I'd much rather see that type of person all over the world rewarded with the jobs and opportunities that many of the first world "poor-in-mindset" have forfeited dibs on, and are less deserving of. I hope the trend continues in that direction, and the poor-in-mindset eventually reach the type of poverty that comes when even the liferaft of first-world citizenship is removed and your life choices are totally your own. And that those who embrace improvement and strive for better (not just demand it out of some warped belief in first-world birthright privilege) get the rewards for it they deserve.
 

AViking

Platinum Member
Sep 12, 2013
2,264
1
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Complicated question. In the first world, there's very definitely a mentality that will more likely lead to being poor than it will produce success. It's living in a land that DOES have opportunities for those willing to do what's required to take advantage of them- and yet falling for all the ruses that says you can't succeed (usuall pushed by poltical hack assholes) then living in a way where your focus is on things that pretty much will lead to a life of poverty- IE: spending all your time in a street gang terrorizing your own neighborhood instead of doing something productive, spending all your time learning something like being a rap star or a basketball player, rather than something you might actually stand a shot in hell of doing successfully.

On one side of town, you have a culture of people pushing their kids to study, learn useful skills, become doctors, CPAs, engineers, whatever- that wouldn't begin for one second to tolerate their kids roaming the streets at all hours, getting involved in crime, wasting too much of their time on things unlikely to get them anywhere- that's a community more likely to succeed.

On the other side of town you have a culture embracing exactly the opposite- not giving a shit if their kids study or not, in fact yelling at their teachers for any attempt at discipline. Kids roaming the street at all hours? What's the big deal? Focusing all their time and energy on things more likely to land them in a jail cell than an office earning money? So what? That's the culture. So be it. It's also one leading to poverty and a shitty life more than it is success.


Meanwhile- you have poor people around the world who don't have the benefit of living in the first world, who have exactly the opposite mindset- they WANT to get the hell out of poverty, and understand what it actually takes to do so. All many of them really require is a system where it's even possible to do so. Even with no money, many of them encourage their kids to focus on education, and don't put up with bullshit excuses.

It's why you can pluck a person out of that environment -with the mindset of wanting to improve themselves- stick them in the first world, and they will see opportunity literally *everywhere* and often do well.

It's no secret with me: I'd much rather see that type of person all over the world rewarded with the jobs and opportunities that many of the first world "poor-in-mindset" have forfeited dibs on, and are less deserving of. I hope the trend continues in that direction, and the poor-in-mindset eventually reach the type of poverty that comes when even the liferaft of first-world citizenship is removed and your life choices are totally your own. And that those who embrace improvement and strive for better (not just demand it out of some warped belief in first-world birthright privilege) get the rewards for it they deserve.

My experience is that poor people have no clue how to get out of poverty because they are not educated, don't understand the process of getting educated, don't know how to create wealth, and the system heavily penalizes those who make around the poverty level by having their cost of living be a huge portion of their income. My experience also says that many people who are living in the middle class are very close to being poor. If they lose their job and don't have family to support them for the 6 months it takes to get a new job they might be out on the street. A medical emergency can make just about anyone poor not just because of the bills but because of the loss of income. Then on top of that you have people who are poor because they did everything close to correct but not quite. Maybe they went and got educated as a aerospace engineer but the industry burst and there were no jobs. Now they're left with debt and no job despite being educated. Now these people stand a better chance of getting on their feet but they might have to go back to school and are technically poor for over 10 years of their life.

Over generalizing is a fools errand. Most of us are far closer to being poor than we care to admit. Maybe you don't have enough car insurance coverage so if you kill someone you're bankrupt. Maybe you have a variable rate mortgage. Maybe you're on the verge of a bitter divorce.

Combating poverty takes broad measure.
 

jhbball

Platinum Member
Mar 20, 2002
2,917
23
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lol, the classic conservative 'elbow grease' fallacy. People are poor only because of the poor decisions they make!

loloololl
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Over generalizing is a fools errand. Most of us are far closer to being poor than we care to admit. Maybe you don't have enough car insurance coverage so if you kill someone you're bankrupt. Maybe you have a variable rate mortgage. Maybe you're on the verge of a bitter divorce.

I have no issue with helping people that take care of business, do the right things, make good choices and then experience some downturn that's not their own fault.

The thing is, I'm sick of dumb people who act like that situation and such people should be equally classed with people who embrace a lifestyle and culture that's keeping them impoverished. Like one is just as worthy of help as the other... and moreover, one type perpetually from cradle to grave and the other just until they are back on their feet again.

I've got every sympathy for people that focus on educating themselves and their kids (for real, with the purpose of using knowledge to better themselves and take care of themselves, not just be dimshits who only learn how entitled they are and how everyone who succeeds does so unfairly- there is a lot of such crap passed off as 'education's) and may need help from others in a low point.

The type of twit though that just wants to sit around being paid a "guaranteed income" out of someone else's pocket so they can sit around playing Xbox all day can go and get fucked. That's the type of entitled shitbag attitude that believes their birthright is first world privlidge- given to them just by accident of birth. That type of douche attitude deserves a few years of living in a Calcutta style slum and learning what real poverty and accident of geography birthright really is.... they deserve to trade places with the slum-dwellers of Calcutta who have suffered enough and actually appreciate opportunities and intact would kill for the ones the first world shithead takes for granted.

That's probably nothing close to the "justice" most first worlder morons invision when whining for momsy and daddsie taxpayer to reward them for existing, but it is the justice that would be fitting.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
I have no issue with helping people that take care of business, do the right things, make good choices and then experience some downturn that's not their own fault.

The thing is, I'm sick of dumb people who act like that situation and such people should be equally classed with people who embrace a lifestyle and culture that's keeping them impoverished. Like one is just as worthy of help as the other... and moreover, one type perpetually from cradle to grave and the other just until they are back on their feet again.

:thumbsup:
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
136
This is a ME society, not a WE society. So, fuck you and your stupid poor ass. Just keep your smelly shit away from my children. Also, don't approach me in my Benz asking for money. Don't bother me about taxes either. I own this god damn country and you are just a talking piece of shit who's just always asking for more without contributing anything to my wealth. So, you are somebody else's problem. Go die somewhere and take your garbage pail dwelling family & friends with you.

That's how people feel about the poor. They don't like them, and that's the real problem. They can help them, but they don't LIKE them. Get it?
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
0
Do you hand out fish or teach a person to fish?

More like,...

,... it costs me $1 to catch a fish and then I sell it to someone for $10. But, that someone can only afford to pay $3 for it. So, I loan him $7, at a high interest rate.

I then push the government, to tax his $3, and not tax my $9 profit and not tax the profits from the interest I am collecting from the loaned money.

Then, I fire the guy who is making $3 and send his job overseas for $1.50 and claim the $1.50 savings as my bonus (which is also not allowed to be taxed).

So, when this recently fired man, with $7 debt is out on the streets, I can say he got there because he is a wreckless drug addict that doesn't know how to manage his money.

Oh, and if he wanted to fish, I wouldn't let him - a fishing rod costs $50 (which I make as well for $10).
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
This is a ME society, not a WE society. So, fuck you and your stupid poor ass. Just keep your smelly shit away from my children. Also, don't approach me in my Benz asking for money. Don't bother me about taxes either. I own this god damn country and you are just a talking piece of shit who's just always asking for more without contributing anything to my wealth. So, you are somebody else's problem. Go die somewhere and take your garbage pail dwelling family & friends with you.

You act like poor people are not just as much ME ME ME. Social responsibility goes both ways. If you want others to help you then you need to put in a good faith effort to live your life in a way that will minimize your need for help.

Take the case of 29-year-old Jennifer Stepp, who lives in Reading, Pa. Like 14 million other people in the U.S. who live in families headed by single mothers, she's poor. And she faces incredible odds.

Stepp has three children by three different fathers. The father of her eldest child, 10-year-old Isaiah, is serving 30 years in federal prison for armed robbery.

"He's met my son one time, when he was a baby. And he decided that he didn't want him," she says.

Stepp's middle child, 8-year-old Shyanne, usually sees her father every other weekend. But the father of her younger son is also in prison. Stepp says he's been behind bars for selling cocaine since she was pregnant. He has never met 1-year-old Makai
http://www.npr.org/2012/07/11/155103593/to-beat-odds-poor-single-moms-need-wide-safety-net

3 kids by 3 different baby daddies, 2 of whom are in prison. Doesn't sound like a good faith effort to me. And this is who NPR chose to represent the plight of poor single moms. Makes you wonder how unlikable the ones they didn't choose were...

That's how people feel about the poor. They don't like them, and that's the real problem. They can help them, but they don't LIKE them. Get it?

They don't like them because they are unlikable.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,731
3,440
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You act like poor people are not just as much ME ME ME. Social responsibility goes both ways. If you want others to help you then you need to put in a good faith effort to live your life in a way that will minimize your need for help.

They don't like them because they are unlikable.

You are perfectly correct on both points. People are people. If the poor were in power, they would act the same. Like I said, this is a ME society, correct? The goal is to reach the top. What happens at the top? You look down on others. What happens at the bottom? You tell the people at the top to go to hell because they already have what you want.
The poor are not likeable. The stereotypes are true. These people will rob you, beat you, kill you. They are violent and bitter. They want you dead because you made good choices. Best to stay away and let them rot in a corner and die. Hopefully they die before they get you. Hopefully they just go away somehow.
See how the mentality is hard to do away with? I say fuck you and you say fuck me. Therefore, we are all fucked.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
Shock and horror as nehalem posts yet another news story showing a woman in a bad light!

Were you raped by your mother and sister or something?
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
Meanwhile- you have poor people around the world who don't have the benefit of living in the first world, who have exactly the opposite mindset- they WANT to get the hell out of poverty, and understand what it actually takes to do so. All many of them really require is a system where it's even possible to do so. Even with no money, many of them encourage their kids to focus on education, and don't put up with bullshit excuses.

Its very telling on how utterly clueless you are that you think people don't want to get out of poverty.