How do we change the mindset of the poor to get them out of poverty?

[berzerker60]

The poor's problem (that remain perpetually poor) is they blame everyone else for their being poor.

They refuse to 'serve' if in a inferior role.

They refuse to work in general.

Glad you have your generic talking points down, otherwise you might have to face actual reality, and that might not serve your sense of superiority!

I'm sure you're right, the 10.4 million Americans with jobs who are nonetheless in poverty just refuse to work and everything is their fault. Why, we ought to fine them to punish their laziness, that will incentivize them to work harder!

 

[DrPizza]

<sarcasm>
The world would be a much better place (implied by the OP and others) if everyone was an engineer, a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant, an IT guy, etc. There shouldn't be any restaurants. There shouldn't be any fast food places. There shouldn't be any grocery stores or department stores. Because those stores would require cheap labor. In an ideal world, all the McDonalds will go out of business because they don't have staff - or at least, they wouldn't be able to open until after school is out for the day, since all their employees would be high school kids.
</sarcasm>
Fortunately, it's not the ideal world as the OP and others would envision it. Those people who do those jobs - the jobs our society absolutely needs - apparently, we'd rather blame those people.

 

[JEDI]

It's going to be unpopular with some, but: We need to give the poor money. Add basic conditions like keeping their kids in school if you want, but that's a marginal issue. Research has shown it works, even the free-market-loving, libertarian-leaning Economist accepts that:

http://www.economist.com/news/inter...people-works-surprisingly-well-it-cannot-deal

psst.. we in the US have been giving free $ to the poor for decades. that has lead to generations of poor gaming the system.

the more children u have, the more free $ u get. it used to be up to 2 children.
it was increased this decade. now u get free $ per child up to 3 children if u are poor.

surprised there was a child cap in the first place

 

[Matt1970]

What mindset? Most of the poor I know are working two jobs and having a hard time paying their bills. Try another track, an improved job market.

That the exact opposite of most of the poor people I know. Getting up at the crack of 11, refuse to do anything dirty, strenuous or work in the elements. Most haven't had the same job longer than a year. That typically leaves you with at or just above minimum wage.

 

[berzerker60]

psst.. we in the US have been giving free $ to the poor for decades. that has lead to generations of poor.

the more children u have, the more free $ u get. it used to be up to 2 children. now u get free $ per child up to 3 children.

We've given some money to the poor, amidst constant hand-wringing about WELFARE QUEENS WELFARE QUEENS WELFARE QUEENS and making sure to keep it at a bare minimum amount. Despite that, it's reduced poverty, and the poverty that remains is shameful but much less dire - many fewer people starving to death, and the large majority of Americans who died in poverty before Social Security is now a much much smaller number.

We need to give more money to the poor, with way less bureaucracy. The best way would just be a guaranteed basic minimum income for everyone at a minimal but liveable level, then getting rid of welfare, food stamps, etc. Failing that, ramp up direct cash into poor people's hands, and stop screaming when a small number use that money in ways you don't like.

 

[JEDI]

We've given some money to the poor, amidst constant hand-wringing about WELFARE QUEENS WELFARE QUEENS WELFARE QUEENS and making sure to keep it at a bare minimum amount. Despite that, it's reduced poverty, and the poverty that remains is shameful but much less dire - many fewer people starving to death, and the large majority of Americans who died in poverty before Social Security is now a much much smaller number.

We need to give more money to the poor, with way less bureaucracy. The best way would just be a guaranteed basic minimum income for everyone at a minimal but liveable level, then getting rid of welfare, food stamps, etc. Failing that, ramp up direct cash into poor people's hands, and stop screaming when a small number use that money in ways you don't like.

no.. the best way to eliminate the poor is mandatory birthcontrol shots on those receiving free govt $. stop the next generation. end the cycle.

or at least not burden themselves w/new children while they are trying to get out of poverty

 

[CanOWorms]

Normalize privileges.

 

[alkemyst]

We've given some money to the poor, amidst constant hand-wringing about WELFARE QUEENS WELFARE QUEENS WELFARE QUEENS and making sure to keep it at a bare minimum amount. Despite that, it's reduced poverty, and the poverty that remains is shameful but much less dire - many fewer people starving to death, and the large majority of Americans who died in poverty before Social Security is now a much much smaller number.

We need to give more money to the poor, with way less bureaucracy. The best way would just be a guaranteed basic minimum income for everyone at a minimal but liveable level, then getting rid of welfare, food stamps, etc. Failing that, ramp up direct cash into poor people's hands, and stop screaming when a small number use that money in ways you don't like.

We need more bureaucracy IMHO, too easy to work under the table and then get medicaid and food stamps (and worse real cash in some states).

Just look at the uproar when talks of testing anyone on welfare for drugs and excessive alcohol usage comes up...they know they are abusing the system.

It messes up the benefits for those that truly need it.

 

[MongGrel]

<sarcasm>
The world would be a much better place (implied by the OP and others) if everyone was an engineer, a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant, an IT guy, etc. There shouldn't be any restaurants. There shouldn't be any fast food places. There shouldn't be any grocery stores or department stores. Because those stores would require cheap labor. In an ideal world, all the McDonalds will go out of business because they don't have staff - or at least, they wouldn't be able to open until after school is out for the day, since all their employees would be high school kids.
</sarcasm>
Fortunately, it's not the ideal world as the OP and others would envision it. Those people who do those jobs - the jobs our society absolutely needs - apparently, we'd rather blame those people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWVxI6XZAuE

 

[Agent11]

Is it will, alone, that separates burger flippers from rocket scientists?

Ok... you didn't mean such black and white extremes. Yet it demonstrates something, will is not the only ingredient at play. Their mindset alone is not sufficient.

What people need is opportunity, the right skill set, and determination. Yet there cannot be opportunities all the time for everyone. It is guaranteed that some people fall through and must be provided for. Currently we have some serious trouble in that area alone.

Then there is education, providing the skill set. I'm a big fan of apprenticeships and on the job training, starting from an easy to enter low level position and working your way up. If we stopped requiring college as a barrier to entry, then it may be possible to raise a generation that doesn't have to land a quality job just to pay their debts.

Ah, but it's so much cheaper to offload that time and effort to colleges. What is cheap for the corporation is damning for the nation as a whole. We have a diseased infrastructure and so long as the mission statement is to cut costs, we're going to cut corners and avoid taking the time to pick people up and train them.

Barrier to entry is a big concern. It's like the housing bubble. Buy a house for $100k, then $200k, $300k etc. Eventually you run out of folks who can afford it, no matter how much you have bent over backwards to ease up the lending rules. In this case, you run out of folks who can afford student loans just so they can apply for a job.

Determination is interesting. It can clearly have external motivators, but it's also an internal choice that we ultimately do not control. All we can do is provide for those who lack it, remove barriers for those with it, and see where the dust settles.

IMO, a work program for those on Welfare, which provides training and apprenticeships, is definitely how we must proceed.

Well said.

 

[shortylickens]

That the exact opposite of most of the poor people I know. Getting up at the crack of 11, refuse to do anything dirty, strenuous or work in the elements. Most haven't had the same job longer than a year. That typically leaves you with at or just above minimum wage.

Yeah, I think maybe the starving family living in dirt is more of a stereotype throughout the rest of the world, Africa especially.
In America "poor" people have a roof over their head, electricity, phone, probably internet, probably some sort of transportation (public or otherwise), and enough money to eat. They might eat junk food, but they arent starving.

Last several times I watched documentaries on poor Americans they all had big TV's, a gaming console, and at least one computer.

 

[Vic]

The poor's problem (that remain perpetually poor) is they blame everyone else for their being poor.

They refuse to 'serve' if in a inferior role.

They refuse to work in general.

Thanks, Obama!

 

[Jaskalas]

liberal Poverty Pimps want to grow their dependence base. It's all part of the current day liberal agenda and the collective mental illness called liberalism.

I suspect their "dependent base" is going to grow regardless.

 

[alkemyst]

Thanks, Obama!

You missed the part where I said PERPETUALLY POOR.

 

[DrPizza]

That the exact opposite of most of the poor people I know. Getting up at the crack of 11, refuse to do anything dirty, strenuous or work in the elements. Most haven't had the same job longer than a year. That typically leaves you with at or just above minimum wage.

I live in one of the poorest counties in NY. Many of the poor people I know probably work harder 5 or 6 days a week than you might have ever worked in a single day in your life. I've known farmer's kids who were up milking cows at 4am before going to school. After school, they went back home and had more farm chores. After graduating from high school (a huge achievement for them), they went right back to work on the farm. For many of the kids in a poor area, escaping the poverty is incredibly difficult. There's no one telling them "leave and never come back."

 

[alkemyst]

I live in one of the poorest counties in NY. Many of the poor people I know probably work harder 5 or 6 days a week than you might have ever worked in a single day in your life. I've known farmer's kids who were up milking cows at 4am before going to school. After school, they went back home and had more farm chores. After graduating from high school (a huge achievement for them), they went right back to work on the farm. For many of the kids in a poor area, escaping the poverty is incredibly difficult. There's no one telling them "leave and never come back."

This just shows the poor aren't trying to help themselves.

I am sure one or two of those kids said "FUCK THIS!" and did well enough for a scholarship and said screw this place.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOiUrF74F14

 

[Jaskalas]

This just shows the poor aren't trying to help themselves.

I am sure one or two of those kids said "FUCK THIS!" and did well enough for a scholarship and said screw this place.

Great, and what do we do with the other 98%?

 

[Agent11]

no.. the best way to eliminate the poor is mandatory birthcontrol shots on those receiving free govt $. stop the next generation. end the cycle.

or at least not burden themselves w/new children while they are trying to get out of poverty

You cannot seriously believe this. If you do, then please do your best to implement your ideals so that I can join the revolution that will end such nonsense.

 

[alkemyst]

Great, and what do we do with the other 98%?

let them work the farm?

Or should we just had them all a $100k check, their own plot of land with a barn on it and a score of cattle, 100 egg laying chickens and 5 acres of corn?

 

[alkemyst]

You cannot seriously believe this. If you do, then please do your best to implement your ideals so that I can join the revolution that will end such nonsense.

I believe birth control and drug/alcohol testing should be mandatory for anyone receiving assistance.

Maybe say limit this to if that person has been on assistance more than 6 months to a year.

I guarantee that will change things drastically.

I also believe in having someone like a bankruptcy trustee come in and evaluate personal property and force a sale of anything considered a luxury item on a monthly basis.

 

[MongGrel]

Thanks, Obama!

Nice try, get over your self.

After almost 8 years, I thought this would have died out, he inherited the mess to begin with.

Thanks, Dubya!

 

[nehalem256]

It's going to be unpopular with some, but: We need to give the poor money. Add basic conditions like keeping their kids in school if you want, but that's a marginal issue. Research has shown it works, even the free-market-loving, libertarian-leaning Economist accepts that:

http://www.economist.com/news/inter...people-works-surprisingly-well-it-cannot-deal

the number of children going without food for a day has fallen by over a third and livestock holdings have risen by half

So you think if we increase welfare the poor in the inner city will buy livestock?:biggrin:

Also, going by the obesity epidemic in the inner city I am thinking people could use with skipping some meals.

 

[Pocatello]

The rich would love it if all Americans believe the poor folks are poor because they don't work hard enough and the richest people are the hardest workers of all.

 

[shortylickens]

The rich would love it if all Americans believe the poor folks are poor because they don't work hard enough and the richest people are the hardest workers of all.

Working smart is different than working hard.
The rich know this which is why they are rich, and the poor are poor.

Know what the best part is?
Its pretty fucking obvious if you arent a god damn self-absorbed moron.


Remember occupy wall street?