How do we block people from tunneling under our new wall?

[sdifox]

But they don't stay in Mexico. The area where I live is chock full of Guatemalans...some legal, some illegal.

Possibly more Guatemalans than "real" Mexicans.

Except they are in the states for the sole purpose of providing cheap farm labour. Thye are migratory, meaning they move following harvest cycle.

I am not sure many Americans are willing to work for the same pay the migrant workers get.

 

[glenn1]

Major legal and ethical issue aside, what you describe would cost tens of billions annually to maintain.

The better legal and ethical issue to address is how the wall will be effective when the Democratic Party and many of the posters here have decided that our immigration laws should no longer be enforced but are likewise too cowardly to outright advocate for open borders. It's like they get their rocks off using the knowledge that Mexicans and others can get here but they have the ultimate power to threaten them with deportation at any moment if they act up. Which means doing something like promising to vote Republican or asking for $1/hour in wages as their illegal nannies or farmhands.

 

[Victorian Gray]

The better legal and ethical issue to address is how the wall will be effective when the Democratic Party and many of the posters here have decided that our immigration laws should no longer be enforced but are likewise too cowardly to outright advocate for open borders. It's like they get their rocks off using the knowledge that Mexicans and others can get here but they have the ultimate power to threaten them with deportation at any moment if they act up. Which means doing something like promising to vote Republican or asking for $1/hour in wages as their illegal nannies or farmhands.

Careful, we wouldn't want you to choke on any of that straw you're punching.

 

[K1052]

The better legal and ethical issue to address is how the wall will be effective when the Democratic Party and many of the posters here have decided that our immigration laws should no longer be enforced but are likewise too cowardly to outright advocate for open borders. It's like they get their rocks off using the knowledge that Mexicans and others can get here but they have the ultimate power to threaten them with deportation at any moment if they act up. Which means doing something like promising to vote Republican or asking for $1/hour in wages as their illegal nannies or farmhands.

Meaningless rhetoric that is impossible to respond to.

 

[K1052]

Except they are in the states for the sole purpose of providing cheap farm labour. Thye are migratory, meaning they move following harvest cycle.

I am not sure many Americans are willing to work for the same pay the migrant workers get.

One guy I know who wants the wall claimed they're getting paid above min wage to do that work so why let them in. I asked if he knew anybody who wanted to do that kind of work for $15/hr and received a blank look.

 

[glenn1]

Meaningless rhetoric that is impossible to respond to.

Right, sure thing that you completely support our immigration laws and totally want them enforced. Except for a wall. And sanctuary cities. And DREAMers. And objections to deporting people if that means we'll "break up families." .

 

[glenn1]

One guy I know who wants the wall claimed they're getting paid above min wage to do that work so why let them in. I asked if he knew anybody who wanted to do that kind of work for $15/hr and received a blank look.

This is probably why hugely strengthening the penalties against employers is the better approach. Throwing some upper east side socialite in FPMITA jail for her illegal nanny or red state farmer in jail for his Mexican farmhands will gain far, far greater compliance than a wall.

 

[K1052]

Right, sure thing that you completely support our immigration laws and totally want them enforced. Except for a wall. And sanctuary cities. And DREAMers. And objections to deporting people if that means we'll "break up families." .

I see no logical reason to penalize otherwise innocent people over the mere act of filling demand that we have collectively created over decades.

 

[K1052]

This is probably why hugely strengthening the penalties against employers is the better approach. Throwing some upper east side socialite in FPMITA jail for her illegal nanny or red state farmer in jail for his Mexican farmhands will gain far, far greater compliance than a wall.

In that case I agree that the President should be sent to prison.

 

[Bitek]

I guess Mexico will pay for it according to Trump?

"Hundreds of property owners were sued just to build the existing chunks of wall. Some 400 relinquished properties ranging in size from a driveway to commercial lots and farms, costing the government at least $15m, according to an AP review of land cases in 2012.

Among them was Eloisa Tamez, who refused to cede her three acres in San Benito, land that had been in her family for generations. A federal judge ruled in the government’s favor, and Tamez was compensated $56,000, with which she funded a scholarship at the University of Texas Rio Grande Valley, where she works as a professor.

“It might be just a little piece of land,” she said. “But to me it meant my life.”"

_________

As I've said before why this is a stupid project, an eminent domain laws have been abused by the govt.

But all the small govt wingers will applaud it, but shit bricks if we take BLM land and make it a national park.

 

[glenn1]

I see no logical reason to penalize otherwise innocent people over the mere act of filling demand that we have collectively created over decades.

So you favor de facto open borders yet want to keep the laws to deport on demand any uppity folks. Funny how you're okay with not penalizing those who fill the demand for labor but not those who fill other demands like guns created under the same circumstances.

 

[K1052]

So you favor de facto open borders yet want to keep the laws to deport on demand any uppity folks. Funny how you're okay with not penalizing those who fill the demand for labor but not those who fill other demands like guns created under the same circumstances.

No, I favor a compassionate and logical rationalization of the immigration situation that doesn't create an economic and humanitarian disaster. This means bringing the people here into the system in a reasonable way without threat that such means will just be used to deport them by guaranteeing them protection of law. Once you do that addressing employer compliance would be relatively easy and far less disruptive.

Further I submit that if you really want to resolve the border issue that spending time and resources stabilizing the Mexican government and economy would be much more worthwhile. As the economy in Mexico improved net illegal immigration of Mexicans went negative. So far it looks like Trump's policies aim to reverse that trend and create more incentive for illegal Mexican immigration.

 

[RichUK]

Land sharks and laser beams.

 

[K1052]

"Hundreds of property owners were sued just to build the existing chunks of wall. Some 400 relinquished properties ranging in size from a driveway to commercial lots and farms, costing the government at least $15m, according to an AP review of land cases in 2012.

Among them was Eloisa Tamez, who refused to cede her three acres in San Benito, land that had been in her family for generations. A federal judge ruled in the government’s favor, and Tamez was compensated $56,000, with which she funded a scholarship at the University of Texas Rio Grande Valley, where she works as a professor.

“It might be just a little piece of land,” she said. “But to me it meant my life.”"

_________

As I've said before why this is a stupid project, an eminent domain laws have been abused by the govt.

But all the small govt wingers will applaud it, but shit bricks if we take BLM land and make it a national park.

Just a rough guesstimate on costs since the last meaningful portions of wall were built in 2008 reveal a price that will easily be double the $15B that Congress seems willing to appropriate. Even that could rise considerably due to the thousands of legal actions, difficult terrain, and other unforeseen problems likely to be encountered.

 

[Bitek]

Just a rough guesstimate on costs since the last meaningful portions of wall were built in 2008 reveal a price that will easily be double the $15B that Congress seems willing to appropriate. Even that could rise considerably due to the thousands of legal actions, difficult terrain, and other unforeseen problems likely to be encountered.

Yeah, that's what we were bouncing around in the other The Wall© thread. Informed estimates go much higher than the $15B, and the lawsuits and land seizures will drag on for years.

All to end up with an easily defeated white elephant that chops up private property and farmland.

 

[RichUK]

 

[BoomerD]

Right, sure thing that you completely support our immigration laws and totally want them enforced. Except for a wall. And sanctuary cities. And DREAMers. And objections to deporting people if that means we'll "break up families." .

I'm a Democrat and want our immigration laws enforced...I wouldn't object if ALL the illegal immigrants were rounded up and sent back to whatever country they're from...if they've acquired any kind of property, real, personal, while they're here, it gets forfeited to help defray the costs of sending them back, repay the country for services they got while they were here...if they have anchor babies...gee...too bad. IMO, the 14th amendment should be...amended to specify that a child born here to illegal immigrants is NOT automatically a citizen...that AT LEAST ONE parent has to be in the country legally. Sanctuary cities should lose All FEDERAL funding if they refuse to comply with federal immigration requests and fail to check the legal status of people arrested.

Too many people equate Democrat with Liberal. Not ALL of us are limp-wristed, bleeding heart libruls. Many of us are pretty damned conservative...just not Republicans.

This is probably why hugely strengthening the penalties against employers is the better approach. Throwing some upper east side socialite in FPMITA jail for her illegal nanny or red state farmer in jail for his Mexican farmhands will gain far, far greater compliance than a wall.

That's going to be the key to stopping illegal immigration. If there are no jobs, they'll stop coming. (or it will at least slow to a trickle.)

 

[Jhhnn]

.if they have anchor babies...gee...too bad.

Yeh- Screw those little brown bastards! They're not Real Murricans!

 

[zinfamous]

I think we're looking at this thing the wrong way. The wall is not to keep people out, it's to keep people in. Another couple of months, and we won't have any issues with people trying to get in.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Land sharks and laser beams.

The U.S. military has been training experts in this type of warfare for over 40 years, developing new and more awesome weapons all the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whac-A-Mole
The tunnelers will never know what hit them.

 

[werepossum]

It's probably not sound immigration policy, but my heart agrees with that. If you can build a kick ass truck-boat-truck and sail it to America you should be allowed in. If you can hop trains, hitchhike, and walk from Guatemala and find yourself a job skinning chickens in a Texas slaughterhouse you should be allowed in. Show that you have the motivation to contribute something, anything, productive and we'll swap you out with some stagnant trailer dwelling meat lump and give you a hall pass valid for as long as you stay out of handcuffs.

I have a bit higher standard than just getting here. I want to see some real innovation. Remember, every illegal willing to work for less lowers wages, meaning that either we accept an increasing wealth divide or we accept increased government control over everyone.

fantastic, great to see you accept the fact that Obama was the toughest President on immigration from Mexico ever in the history of our great nation.

doesn't it feel good to acknowledge the truth instead of your usual lies?

Obama had so much dignity, respect, selflessness, all traits Trump is the polar opposite of.

Disagree. Obama was the king of "deport yourself" letters. While he and the left counts those as deportations, I suspect very few illegal aliens actually leave because they are told to leave. Besides that, even physically deporting someone means little when they can so easily come back in.

Some empowered neonazis could beat up perfectly legal cross-border commuters or visitors or even american citizenship with the excuse of apprehending them.

This should be left to uniformed police forces. Of course, volunteers for MONITORING (not arrest) of the border or reporting on illegal gathering spots inside the country (is there an app for that?) could always be used.


the US can afford to hold itself to a decent standard.

Agreed - as long as the Feds are actually doing their jobs. Under Obama, the federal government mostly concentrated on making sure the states didn't interfere with allowing illegal aliens to break the law.

 

[JSt0rm]

the wall is only about enriching builders.

 

[Capt Caveman]

The U.S. military has been training experts in this type of warfare for over 40 years, developing new and more awesome weapons all the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whac-A-Mole
The tunnelers will never know what hit them.

Comments like this date you as someone who must be in a teenager. And you're too much of an idiot to realize that border crossers aren't killed b/c even Trump isn't as stupid as you. Of course, they'll just build a tunnel that leads into a house/building but of course you didn't even realize that there are already tunnels out there.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a2487/4244235/

"
High-Tech Border Patrol: 5 New Tricks to Find Smuggler Tunnels
The Department of Homeland Security says tunnels under the U.S.-Mexico border are proliferating as security is tightened aboveground. The solution? A sensor network that peers through dirt and rock. The technologies to build it are being developed with funding from the departments advanced research wing. Here are the most promising contenders."

 

[Jhhnn]

I have a bit higher standard than just getting here. I want to see some real innovation. Remember, every illegal willing to work for less lowers wages, meaning that either we accept an increasing wealth divide or we accept increased government control over everyone.

Yeh, having funds appear on an EBT card is so controlling, just like subsidized healthcare & housing. What's really controlling is the Job Creators' desires to dump as many of us as possible & deny civic responsibility.

Disagree. Obama was the king of "deport yourself" letters. While he and the left counts those as deportations, I suspect very few illegal aliens actually leave because they are told to leave. Besides that, even physically deporting someone means little when they can so easily come back in.


Agreed - as long as the Feds are actually doing their jobs. Under Obama, the federal government mostly concentrated on making sure the states didn't interfere with allowing illegal aliens to break the law.

The number of illegals in this country fell & stabilized. ~2/3 of those have been here over 10 years. They have a very high labor participation rate, keep their noses clean & have strong family values. Their chief drawback as citizens appears to be skin color.