How come most Americans are poor?

[So]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: slsmnaz
You did not answer the question, what % make minimum wage? (hint: not a big number)

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid DOUBLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes. Hence in my book, every entry level employees in America are underpaid.

it is evident that your "wonderful" excessive minimum wage has simply pushed up the cost of living and hurt your economy while netting nothing for workers that produce the same product.

Do you have facts and figures to backup your foolish claims?

According to our reserve bank, inflation is at a low single digit figure since the 70s.

Next time, engage your brain before typing.

Yeah, I do have facts and figures, specifically the ones you snipped out of your quote. If GDP PPP is less than GDP (nominal) then your cost of living is higher than average. Once again. In AUS the cost of living is 4000 higher than the average and in the US it is 400. Therefore, higher minimum wages in Austrailia mean less and are worth proportionally less than lower ones in the US.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav
if you do computer consulting you can make $20 an hour, easily.

Only $20 an hour? That's pathetic, our local garbo (garbage man) makes more than that!

You guys are soooo underpaid

 

[Parasitic]

FAFSA only helps if you're lower-middle class.
We don't make enough to let me in a public school and dispense income comfortably, yet we get no financial aids aside from unsubsidized loans.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Mill


A heat wave is a natural disaster. Secondly, it had nothing to do with France's infrastructure, and everything to do with the fact that most doctors, city-workers, nurses, and paramedics were on holiday in the South of France, and that France's Health Minister was a total moron.

While a heat wave is a natural disaster, it is only a disaster in that humans can be extremely vulnerable to it. It is not a disaster in the ecological sense.

That said, it was a disaster because many in Europe (mainly the elderly) lacked the ability to adapt to the conditions. This was caused by a lack of knowledge AND infrastructure. The infrastructure in this case is air conditioning. Heat waves like that are only fatal to people that either lack the knowledge on how to adapt (mainly, keep hydrated) or those who can't find adequate (cooled) shelter.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: Queasy
BTW, poor compared to what? Even poor Americans enjoy a standard of living much higher than the rest of the world...including Europe.

hahahaha. I read that "standard of living" all the time. Its total BOLLOCKS.

Dont get me wrong, as someone who lived 7+ years in the states its NOT my intention to bash the usa. But..please define "standard of living" ?

As an example, and i can ONLY speak for Germany now:

* health care, health insurance, social security, unemployment security
NO WAY IN HELL the us comes even close there. We pay A LOT of taxes, i totally agree....but....we also get something BACK from the taxes we pay....in the US those go to IRAQ.

* Public Transportation

*Price of groceries
Germany is known to have VERY LOW priced grocery discounters. Thats one reason Walmart FAILED in Germany since they couldnt compete with the low margins here. (This was new to me too)


* CERTAIN internet infrastructure.
Most/Many people in Europe have a 16MB/1MB DSL line....i havent even SEEN speeds like that advertized ANYWHERE over in the US...be it comcast or whatever provider i had....

Give me examples please for "higher standard of living" in the us


Edit: Yes...i agree...my personal impression is that the MIDDLECLASS is big in the states..many people DO have average jobs, barely paying bills etc..etc. Not really "poor" tho. But then there ARE many really poor people since (as said) things like unemployment insurance etc. are as good as nonexistent.

And...i dont need to mention that very known term "working poor"...the many people who work hard 40+ hrs but STILL are poor because the jobs just pay **** and no H/Ins.

IIRC, Germany also has a much higher population density as a whole when compared to the U.S. Public transportation, network infrastructure, etc... are harder to implement when you've got states like Kansas where there's nothing but farmland for miles and miles. From what I remember when I was in Europe, you couldn't spit without hitting one of your neighbors...

Germany also enjoys a 9.2% unemployment rate. They were in the double-digits for a while.

That's unpossible! I thought the European countries were a "worker's paradise" :Q

Didn't France also have almost 15,000 people die as the result of a heat wave? Not a natural disaster. Not a war. A heat wave. Germany saw something on the order of 7,000 people die. The EU as a whole saw something around 35,000 people die.

Where was the wonderful loving nanny state then to help the people? How's that for a standard of living?

A heat wave is a natural disaster. Secondly, it had nothing to do with France's infrastructure, and everything to do with the fact that most doctors, city-workers, nurses, and paramedics were on holiday in the South of France, and that France's Health Minister was a total moron.

This wasn't just France but the entire EU - 35,000 people dead.

We have heatwaves in the USA all the time. We don't see tens of thousands of people die. Why? Because the "poor" people here in the US have ample access to things like air conditioning and water. You'll hear of a few people die but those are almost always the elderly or infirmed who were susceptible to begin with.

Almost nobody is continental EU wants air conditioning in the houses, as it is considered unhealthy. That's why they are generally very subject to problems when it's exceptionally hot in the summer, and many old people are home alone.

 

[Fingolfin269]

It is all about relativity. We have poor people in our country relative to the average in the country. Poor here is usually someone who lives in a house, does have heat/air, owns a TV and a car. Poor somewhere else might be someone living in a mud hut.

(I am not taking the homeless into consideration here... probably a separate discussion altogether.)

 

[bobsmith1492]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav
if you do computer consulting you can make $20 an hour, easily.

Only $20 an hour? That's pathetic, our local garbo (garbage man) makes more than that!

You guys are soooo underpaid

So... what is the incentive to train yourself to be a computer consultant rather than a garbageman if they make the same amount? Artificial wage-leveling reduces incentive to obtain higher-level education and work skills. This in turn leads to a lower-skilled workforce, which in turn leads to a diminishing economy, especially as low-skill jobs are outsourced.

 

[bobsmith1492]

Originally posted by: Tango

Almost nobody is continental EU wants air conditioning in the houses, as it is considered unhealthy. That's why they are generally very subject to problems when it's exceptionally hot in the summer, and many old people are home alone.

Hm, that's pretty ridiculous; there is no way air conditioning could be considered unhealthy unless the drier air adversely affects one's throat.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav
if you do computer consulting you can make $20 an hour, easily.

Only $20 an hour? That's pathetic, our local garbo (garbage man) makes more than that!

You guys are soooo underpaid

So... what is the incentive to train yourself to be a computer consultant rather than a garbageman if they make the same amount? Artificial wage-leveling reduces incentive to obtain higher-level education and work skills.

I don't know where you come from but in Australia a junior computer consultant would probably earn >$40 an hour. A senior computer consultant/analyst/programmer can probably earn >$60 an hour. Hence there is incentive to train yourself for better jobs.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: malG
I'm Australian and here we get subsidised college tuition, free healthcare and great social security. I know of many people on the dole for most of their lives. Interestingly, our taxes are quite low when compared to most G8 countries. I thought America is a rich country, how come most Americans are poor?

They're not. America has the 3rd-highest GDP per capita in the world.

Originally posted by: malG
Here's another example of Australian government generosity which is unheard of in America; we get $4k for each newborn and get a sizeable allowance to take care of the child till they're 16!

You are an unbelievably brainwashed moron if you believe that your government is giving you anything.

Your country has no freedom of speech protections. Why don't you find a board from your own country to troll at? :roll: <^>

 

[soulcougher73]

You know what i find funny about this and i only read to page 3. but everyone agrees American's are dumb with money and rack up debt left and right and live outside their means. But then you say we should be in charge of our own money on retirement etc.

You people are smoking something LOL. Americans as whole are dumb with money. Taking it from them for socail programs/retirement is a much better idea then to let them try to figure it out on their own. Again this is a whole. Im sure plenty people would do fine managing their own money. If they left it to every American to do what they wanted with their money for retirement we would be one backrupt country in about 50 years.

And yes im an American in the 40k bracket and i dont live outside my means(much) LOL.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: Tango

Almost nobody is continental EU wants air conditioning in the houses, as it is considered unhealthy. That's why they are generally very subject to problems when it's exceptionally hot in the summer, and many old people are home alone.

Hm, that's pretty ridiculous; there is no way air conditioning could be considered unhealthy unless the drier air adversely affects one's throat.

Well, I am not saying that they are right. Just that most people I talked to don't like the continuous temperature changes when entering/exiting places with A/C.

It's actually one of the things they find most annoying about the US when they visit. Ever noticed Euro tourists going around NYC in August with a sweater around their waits, even when outside it's 110 degrees? They just put it on inside department stores an museums...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav
if you do computer consulting you can make $20 an hour, easily.

Only $20 an hour? That's pathetic, our local garbo (garbage man) makes more than that!

You guys are soooo underpaid

So... what is the incentive to train yourself to be a computer consultant rather than a garbageman if they make the same amount? Artificial wage-leveling reduces incentive to obtain higher-level education and work skills.

I don't know where you come from but in Australia a junior computer consultant would probably earn >$40 an hour. A senior computer consultant/analyst/programmer can probably earn >$60 an hour. Hence there is incentive to train yourself for better jobs.

Except that $40 AUD converts to $32 USD. Which would still sound nice, except that the cost of living is sky-high in most of Australia by US standards. Meaning that, even adjusted for the exchange rate, everything still costs more.

Maybe your socialist government should start teaching basic economics along with all those other "generous" things it does?

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Vic

America has the 3rd-highest GDP per capita in the world.

The reason behind that is because the top 1% of the super rich in USA makes more money than the rest of the country. The fact is, most Americans are low income earners, it's the opposite in Australia.

In other words, the US system favours the rich. The working poor who mostly survive on pathetically low minimum wage make the rich richer.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Parasitic
FAFSA only helps if you're lower-middle class.
We don't make enough to let me in a public school and dispense income comfortably, yet we get no financial aids aside from unsubsidized loans.

Do what I did. Work your ass off, pay off all debts, save big bucks, then cut your hours or change to a lower paying job and get grants for school and still be able to live the same lifestyle you want on your savings while going to college on Uncle Sams money.

It's not like they didn't/won't get back the grant money in spades via taxes on your new promotion made possible by your new college degree. I fully support government funding to send people to college. Unlike free health care, housing, minimum wage, etc, if you give someone a degree they are going want to work for what it's worth and get a pay increase. And that new income is taxable

The only government subsidies I support are the ones that cause people to put back more than they took, ie: college.

Something about teaching a man to fish, etc.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: soulcougher73
You know what i find funny about this and i only read to page 3. but everyone agrees American's are dumb with money and rack up debt left and right and live outside their means. But then you say we should be in charge of our own money on retirement etc.

You people are smoking something LOL. Americans as whole are dumb with money. Taking it from them for socail programs/retirement is a much better idea then to let them try to figure it out on their own. Again this is a whole. Im sure plenty people would do fine managing their own money. If they left it to every American to do what they wanted with their money for retirement we would be one backrupt country in about 50 years.

And yes im an American in the 40k bracket and i dont live outside my means(much) LOL.

If Americans are dumb with money "as a whole," then how is it then that if we left every American to do what they wanted with their money we would be bankrupt in about 50 years? And how is then that social programs will help us when government IS the people and the people are "dumb with money" "as a whole"? And of course, you don't suffer from the social ill that you accuse the rest of us "as a whole" of suffering from. "LOL"

:roll:

Wow....

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: soulcougher73
You know what i find funny about this and i only read to page 3. but everyone agrees American's are dumb with money and rack up debt left and right and live outside their means. But then you say we should be in charge of our own money on retirement etc.

You people are smoking something LOL. Americans as whole are dumb with money. Taking it from them for socail programs/retirement is a much better idea then to let them try to figure it out on their own. Again this is a whole. Im sure plenty people would do fine managing their own money. If they left it to every American to do what they wanted with their money for retirement we would be one backrupt country in about 50 years.

And yes im an American in the 40k bracket and i dont live outside my means(much) LOL.

Yeah I agree that MOST people are dumb and can't do it by themselves. Thats fine for them.

The problem is, don't punish those of us who know better by making us contribute to their mess. For example, I will sign a paper right now that says I can stop paying into social security if I agree not to collect on it, ever.

That is the issue here. Restriction of choices and freedoms by mandating that EVERYONE do it. Allow those who don't want to do it the choice, and you can do whatever you want. Just don't force me to do it if I don't agree, because I am one of the few people that DOES know how to manage money.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav
if you do computer consulting you can make $20 an hour, easily.

Only $20 an hour? That's pathetic, our local garbo (garbage man) makes more than that!

You guys are soooo underpaid

So... what is the incentive to train yourself to be a computer consultant rather than a garbageman if they make the same amount? Artificial wage-leveling reduces incentive to obtain higher-level education and work skills.

I don't know where you come from but in Australia a junior computer consultant would probably earn >$40 an hour. A senior computer consultant/analyst/programmer can probably earn >$60 an hour. Hence there is incentive to train yourself for better jobs.

Except that $40 AUD converts to $32 USD. Which would still sound nice, except that the cost of living is sky-high in most of Australia by US standards. Meaning that, even adjusted for the exchange rate, everything still costs more.

Maybe your socialist government should start teaching basic economics along with all those other "generous" things it does?

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: soulcougher73
You know what i find funny about this and i only read to page 3. but everyone agrees American's are dumb with money and rack up debt left and right and live outside their means. But then you say we should be in charge of our own money on retirement etc.

You people are smoking something LOL. Americans as whole are dumb with money. Taking it from them for socail programs/retirement is a much better idea then to let them try to figure it out on their own. Again this is a whole. Im sure plenty people would do fine managing their own money. If they left it to every American to do what they wanted with their money for retirement we would be one backrupt country in about 50 years.

And yes im an American in the 40k bracket and i dont live outside my means(much) LOL.

If Americans are dumb with money "as a whole," then how is it then that if we left every American to do what they wanted with their money we would be bankrupt in about 50 years? And how is then that social programs will help us when government IS the people and the people are "dumb with money" "as a whole"? And of course, you don't suffer from the social ill that you accuse the rest of us "as a whole" of suffering from. "LOL"

:roll:

Wow....

Vic, I request that you cease and desist posting more on this topic. The OP is a flamebaiting troll. Do not feed the fire.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic

America has the 3rd-highest GDP per capita in the world.

The reason behind that is because the top 1% of the super rich in USA makes more money than the rest of the country. The fact is, most Americans are low income earners, it's the opposite in Australia.

In other words, the US system favours the rich. The working poor who mostly survive on pathetically low minimum wage make the rich richer.

It does not escape notice that you have posted no links to back up this claim. And why haven't you? Because it's utter bullsh!t. The "working poor" in America make an average of $40k/yr. USD (which let me explain, because you have already proven to be ignorant of exchange rates, is 267% higher than the minimum wage). Which BTW only about 1% of America's workforce make the minimum wage, of which most those are under the age of 25.

I love the "it's the opposite in Australia" line. So everyone there makes above-average incomes, eh?

Fsckin' hilarious.

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: soulcougher73
You know what i find funny about this and i only read to page 3. but everyone agrees American's are dumb with money and rack up debt left and right and live outside their means. But then you say we should be in charge of our own money on retirement etc.

You people are smoking something LOL. Americans as whole are dumb with money. Taking it from them for socail programs/retirement is a much better idea then to let them try to figure it out on their own. Again this is a whole. Im sure plenty people would do fine managing their own money. If they left it to every American to do what they wanted with their money for retirement we would be one backrupt country in about 50 years.

And yes im an American in the 40k bracket and i dont live outside my means(much) LOL.

If Americans are dumb with money "as a whole," then how is it then that if we left every American to do what they wanted with their money we would be bankrupt in about 50 years? And how is then that social programs will help us when government IS the people and the people are "dumb with money" "as a whole"? And of course, you don't suffer from the social ill that you accuse the rest of us "as a whole" of suffering from. "LOL"

:roll:

Wow....

Well once people got to the retirement age and realized they didnt have any money and the government didnt have any to give you since you didnt pay into it. We would have a hugre influx of homeless people. Which then the goverment would want to figure out how to help them and its a big vicious circle LOL. I am not great with money i admit it. But im glad we have social security to back us up when im at a retirement age. Assuming it is still around by then.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: exdeath
That is the issue here. Restriction of choices and freedoms by mandating that EVERYONE do it. Allow those who don't want to do it the choice, and you can do whatever you want. Just don't force me to do it if I don't agree, because I am one of the few people that DOES know how to manage money.

You can choose to go to any college in Australia, public or private and the government will subsidise (HECS) the tuition fee. You can buy your own health insurance and receive a medicare rebate on your tax. You can also fund your own retirement. Hence there is FREEDOM of choice in Australia.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: malG
I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

Yay... you live in the whitest and most isolated (geographically) city on Earth.

Some would argue the "very moderate" claim there too. For example, home prices are quite high there, comparable to cities in the western US.

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: soulcougher73
You know what i find funny about this and i only read to page 3. but everyone agrees American's are dumb with money and rack up debt left and right and live outside their means. But then you say we should be in charge of our own money on retirement etc.

You people are smoking something LOL. Americans as whole are dumb with money. Taking it from them for socail programs/retirement is a much better idea then to let them try to figure it out on their own. Again this is a whole. Im sure plenty people would do fine managing their own money. If they left it to every American to do what they wanted with their money for retirement we would be one backrupt country in about 50 years.

And yes im an American in the 40k bracket and i dont live outside my means(much) LOL.

Yeah I agree that MOST people are dumb and can't do it by themselves. Thats fine for them.

The problem is, don't punish those of us who know better by making us contribute to their mess. For example, I will sign a paper right now that says I can stop paying into social security if I agree not to collect on it, ever.

That is the issue here. Restriction of choices and freedoms by mandating that EVERYONE do it. Allow those who don't want to do it the choice, and you can do whatever you want. Just don't force me to do it if I don't agree, because I am one of the few people that DOES know how to manage money.

I agree with this. Some people are great with money and should have the option to do it themselves outside the government. But i think if the goverment just left it up to each person and they stayed out of it completely, It would hurt our country more in the long run i believe. I like choices and freedoms, but sometimes im willing to sacrafice things for the betterment of my country as a whole.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic

America has the 3rd-highest GDP per capita in the world.

The reason behind that is because the top 1% of the super rich in USA makes more money than the rest of the country. The fact is, most Americans are low income earners, it's the opposite in Australia.

In other words, the US system favours the rich. The working poor who mostly survive on pathetically low minimum wage make the rich richer.

If the US favors the rich, then how come the median home prices in Australia are $355,000

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf...B70579A67CA25715C001A3C71?OpenDocument

But the US is only $167,500?

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/AD...e=ACS_2005_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-_sse=on

Who has a better chance of owning their own home?