How come most Americans are poor?

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: joecool
most would mean > 50%. the poverty rate in america is much lower than that. so your statement is incorrect. most americans aren't poor. however, we do have a huge imbalance in wealth, with the folks at the top possessing a large percentage of the entire countries wealth.

also note, australia has been experiencing an economic boom for many years. that is easier to maintain with a small, homogeneous population, and a small military budget. the us has to spend large sums in areas australia will never have to worry about.

Speaking of subsidies? yeah because we subsidize their military expenses with the US naval and nuclear umbrella. I find it funny when people in countries like Australia and Canada give Americans grief about it's military spending while depending on the US for military aid so much that they neglect budgeting for their own.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you (or covers your ass as the case may be).

 

[BassBomb]

I live in Canada. I love it here.

I had the chance to move to the states, but we decided not to because:

1. Schools
2. Healthcare

Anyways,

In Canada, we pay MUCH more taxes than our southern neighbours. But in return we get great healthcare (free healthcare) and great schooling. These systems are going downhill right now, but are worlds ahead of those in place in the States.

Oh, and I don't really care about National Defence, considering we do not upset other nations. Thus we have no real enemies to need defence from.

CANADA FTW

EDIT:

Just saw what the above person posted. @ exdeath, where is Canada getting military Aid from the US? We are right now cleaning up your mess in Afghanistan, so I think we aiding you.

 

[Skotty]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Is 32k a year poor for a family of 7?

Not if you had a house that was paid off, no car payments, didn't eat out every night, etc.

It's been said 1000 times in ATOT. It's not what you make, it's how you spend it.

I'm just using my family as an example. We've made it just fine for the past 8 or 9 years on this much, and we are still doing just fine. My parents have a mortgage payment, one car payment, utilities, and thats it. Sure, I have to work my butt off for my vehicle, my insurance, and my education, but this most defiantly isn't poor. Hell, we have a damn swimming pool in our back yard for cripes sake.

:thumbsup:

I came from a single working low income family of 6 in a 3 bedroom home (no pool heh), etc. But we've never needed government handouts. We just didnt blow our money on cigarettes, beer, and Red Lobster every night.

Threads like this piss me off, especially BECAUSE I had to grow up as a child/teen with less than everyone else with my peers bragging in my face and putting me down for what I didn't have.

Now that I am on my own and doing pretty damn good for myself, I find that the closer I get to my goals, the harder it gets STILL, all because a few people think they are 'punishing the rich'.

Doesn't anyone grasp the concept that by 'punishing the rich' you are preventing anyone from rising above poverty with those same barriers?

The people bitching about minimum wage being too low, etc, are people who have no education and have never made more than minimum wage. If these people actually put themselves through school and they themselves started making decent money, and saw how success is taxed to death, they would know how wrong they are.

Yes, shamefully, I admit, that I used to be one of those people that always said "Bill Gates doesn't need all that money, they should give it to everyone who needs it"

Until I started going to college and started making something for myself. The cure to socialism is personal success.

This makes you sound greedy. You want to keep all your money for yourself now.

I grew up poor also, living in a trailer with a buckling floor, leaky roof, and no A/C half the time. My dad was dead and my mom was working as a secretary by day and attending college by night to try and move up in the world. We received a handout or two and I don't think we would have made it without them.

Today I make decent money, and it doesn't bother me a bit that I pay more in taxes to support services like the ones we received when we were poor.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Until I started going to college and started making something for myself. The cure to socialism is personal success.

What happens if you were born with a serious physical handicap? What success would you have in the US? In Australia, you would be taken care of.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
I live in Canada. I love it here.

I had the chance to move to the states, but we decided not to because:

1. Schools
2. Healthcare

Anyways,

In Canada, we pay MUCH more taxes than our southern neighbours. But in return we get great healthcare (free healthcare) and great schooling. These systems are going downhill right now, but are worlds ahead of those in place in the States.

Oh, and I don't really care about National Defence, considering we do not upset other nations. Thus we have no real enemies to need defence from.

CANADA FTW

EDIT:

Just saw what the above person posted. @ exdeath, where is Canada getting military Aid from the US? We are right now cleaning up your mess in Afghanistan, so I think we aiding you.

Ah Canada, the land where it costs $75 US to mail a video card

The problem is even when that crappy healthcare fails, as you said its going downhill, you still have to pay for it, and there will be no competition or alternatives. So now not only can you not afford that new car you want because you're paying high taxes for healthcare, your healthcare will suck and you will still be forced to pay for it.

I prefer freedom of choice.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Skotty
I grew up poor also, living in a trailer with a buckling floor, leaky roof, and no A/C half the time. My dad was dead and my mom was working as a secretary by day and attending college by night to try and move up in the world. We received a handout or two and I don't think we would have made it without them.

Today I make decent money, and it doesn't bother me a bit that I pay more in taxes to support services like the ones we received when we were poor.

I salute you :thumbsup:

We should have more caring people like you.

 

[Vic]

WTF why is this trolling allowed to continue?

Most states have their own minimum wages that are higher than federal -- Text

Due to the passage of the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007 on February 1, the federal minimum wage is now $5.85 as of April 1st. On 4/1/08, that goes up to $6.55, and on 4/1/09, it goes up to $7.25.

And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.
On top of that, the OP lives in a state that is twice the size of Alaska and with similar population density. He lives in a city the size of Milwaukie, WI that is 95% white, is the largest city within a 5 hour plane ride, and whose economy is almost entirely dependent upon mining and oil.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Vic


And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.

WTF? I've answered everything on cost of living and exchange rate. Here it is again:

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

Addendum (repeated from earlier post also): The Australian dollar buys 82 US cents, near its 17-year high and gaining fast on the US dollar.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
I live in Canada. I love it here.

I had the chance to move to the states, but we decided not to because:

1. Schools
2. Healthcare

Anyways,

In Canada, we pay MUCH more taxes than our southern neighbours. But in return we get great healthcare (free healthcare) and great schooling. These systems are going downhill right now, but are worlds ahead of those in place in the States.

Oh, and I don't really care about National Defence, considering we do not upset other nations. Thus we have no real enemies to need defence from.

CANADA FTW

EDIT:

Just saw what the above person posted. @ exdeath, where is Canada getting military Aid from the US? We are right now cleaning up your mess in Afghanistan, so I think we aiding you.

How do you figure that your healthcare is free?

Also, your claims that quality of medical care and schools are higher in Canada than in the US are not supported by studies.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: exdeath
Until I started going to college and started making something for myself. The cure to socialism is personal success.

What happens if you were born with a serious physical handicap? What success would you have in the US? In Australia, you would be taken care of.

Me personally, I would hope that my parents would have done what they needed to do to end a failed biological mutation without feeling morally guilty should the need arise.

As for others, being handicap is no excuse for lack of personal success. We?ve had everything from professional athletes to presidents born with handicaps, it happens all the time. You can research this one for yourself, as it is not my area of interest or research to have a dissertation available to hand you personally.

If you mean a handicap so severe that the person isn?t even a ?person?, or a thinking, breathing, able bodied human being, but the parents kept it because it had a pulse, that was their choice, not mine.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Skotty
I grew up poor also, living in a trailer with a buckling floor, leaky roof, and no A/C half the time. My dad was dead and my mom was working as a secretary by day and attending college by night to try and move up in the world. We received a handout or two and I don't think we would have made it without them.

Today I make decent money, and it doesn't bother me a bit that I pay more in taxes to support services like the ones we received when we were poor.

I salute you :thumbsup:

We should have more caring people like you.

but does forcing people to pay more to social services... does that make a person more "caring"... A lot of rich people already give to charity; is it not better that they have a choice? If I'm not mistaken, the Americans are the most generous country in the world... they are not force to give to charity.. they do it by themselves. They may give a smaller percent of their earnings, but the amount they do give is very large compared to other countries.

Demanding that American give even more.. isn't that kinda greedy?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic


And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.

WTF? I've answered everything on cost of living and exchange rate. Here it is again:

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

That was already shot down. If your cost of living is so moderate there, then why are homes so expensive?

Look, you live in a little isolated part of the world and then arrogantly believe you know everything about the rest of the world. Sorry no. For the North Americans who can't quite grasp the remoteness of where the OP lives, imagine if a city with a metro area of 1.5 million people, almost all of whom are white, and with virtually no one living in the surrounding area the size of the US from the Rocky Mountains west to the Pacific, was planted on Canada's northern shore against the Arctic Ocean. That's basically where the OP lives, except it's warm. Or you could think if the entire Western US was almost completely empty except for the city of Portland, OR. That would be Perth.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic


And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.

WTF? I've answered everything on cost of living and exchange rate. Here it is again:

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

Addendum (repeated from ear;lier post also): The Australian dollar buys 82 US cents, near its 17-year high and gaining fast on the US dollar.

Population of Sydney - ~ 4,000,000. Population of Australia - around 20,000,000. Percent of population = 20%.

Population of NYC, NY - ~8,000,000. Population of US - ~301,000,000.
Percent of population = Less than 3%.

Apples to meatballs. You completely ignore the numbers behind the numbers. Overall a MUCH higher number of Austrailian citizens are affected by the expense of Sydney than are US citizens by NYC. Yeh, you can toss in LA & Chicago, but it still is fraction of the population density of Sydney compared to the population of the country.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic


And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.

WTF? I've answered everything on cost of living and exchange rate. Here it is again:

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

That was already shot down. If your cost of living is so moderate there, then why are homes so expensive?

Our homes are expensive yet we can afford them better than Americans. Our TYPICAL income is also proven to be much more than typical American income. I've been to the US several times as I mentioned earlier. Too bad you don't have money to visit Perth, it's a beautiful place you know.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Skotty

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly
Is 32k a year poor for a family of 7?

Not if you had a house that was paid off, no car payments, didn't eat out every night, etc.

It's been said 1000 times in ATOT. It's not what you make, it's how you spend it.

I'm just using my family as an example. We've made it just fine for the past 8 or 9 years on this much, and we are still doing just fine. My parents have a mortgage payment, one car payment, utilities, and thats it. Sure, I have to work my butt off for my vehicle, my insurance, and my education, but this most defiantly isn't poor. Hell, we have a damn swimming pool in our back yard for cripes sake.

:thumbsup:

I came from a single working low income family of 6 in a 3 bedroom home (no pool heh), etc. But we've never needed government handouts. We just didnt blow our money on cigarettes, beer, and Red Lobster every night.

Threads like this piss me off, especially BECAUSE I had to grow up as a child/teen with less than everyone else with my peers bragging in my face and putting me down for what I didn't have.

Now that I am on my own and doing pretty damn good for myself, I find that the closer I get to my goals, the harder it gets STILL, all because a few people think they are 'punishing the rich'.

Doesn't anyone grasp the concept that by 'punishing the rich' you are preventing anyone from rising above poverty with those same barriers?

The people bitching about minimum wage being too low, etc, are people who have no education and have never made more than minimum wage. If these people actually put themselves through school and they themselves started making decent money, and saw how success is taxed to death, they would know how wrong they are.

Yes, shamefully, I admit, that I used to be one of those people that always said "Bill Gates doesn't need all that money, they should give it to everyone who needs it"

Until I started going to college and started making something for myself. The cure to socialism is personal success.

This makes you sound greedy. You want to keep all your money for yourself now.

I grew up poor also, living in a trailer with a buckling floor, leaky roof, and no A/C half the time. My dad was dead and my mom was working as a secretary by day and attending college by night to try and move up in the world. We received a handout or two and I don't think we would have made it without them.

Today I make decent money, and it doesn't bother me a bit that I pay more in taxes to support services like the ones we received when we were poor.

I would like to know if you would voluntarily give up the difference to charity yourself if it wasn't taken out by force in taxes. If the government didn?t take out $600 a paycheck from you by threat of force, would you voluntarily write a $15,000 check every year to a charity? If you do, good for you, you are better than everyone else on this thread that can only talk the talk. But that still doesn't give you or anyone the right to force their personal life on someone else, and that is the only issue I really even have with this whole topic.

But I?m thinking most likely not. Most people on this forum who favor 'supporting the needy' would probably donate a paltry $500 to charity to feel good about themselves and spend the rest on a $3000 pair of SLI video cards and a 30" LCD and a sporty new car. Then they will brag about it in another thread, while that same person is here in this thread saying we need to be generous and support the homeless, otherwise we are greedy. One rule for me, one rule for everyone else. Enter Democrats.

I don't mind helping people either, but I DO have my own goals in life to achieve as well. The difference is that I would like to retain the freedom to make that choice myself.

For someone to get rich and have enough money to help others in the first place, they have to get there first don't they?

When I am a billionaire, I will pledge money to charities, hell, even donate my personal time. But for now, when I am a college student with a $300,000 house and a $35,000 car that I paid for myself and can afford with my own income alone, leave me alone and quit taxing me to death and telling me how to spend my money.

Why should someone feel pressured to give away all their money to someone needier first and foremost? I work for me and me alone, and if I have anything extra that I wish to voluntarily give, then I will do so of my own free will if I choose to do so. Since when is it a sin to enjoy the fruits of your own labor after you yourself were once needy (or wanting as the case may be)? Just because you have attained your personal goals doesn't mean that I have attained mine. And who is to decide when enough is enough, this is the most you can do, ok you have all you need you have to give the rest away now? Enter communism.

You people make it sound as though spending money on yourself is pure evil and the moment you get a $1 more than you need to feed and cloth yourself you should give it away or you are greedy. Yet all the people posting on this forum are doing so from $3000+ high powered gaming PCs that they don?t need.

Maybe I'll decide not to give any of my income away, that I just want to horde it all away to a bank account so that if I have a medical emergency or suffer a physical handicap I can take care of myself without imposing on someone else who needs to keep the money they EARNED to save up for their first house or pay their own medical bills *snicker*

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic


And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.

WTF? I've answered everything on cost of living and exchange rate. Here it is again:

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

Addendum (repeated from ear;lier post also): The Australian dollar buys 82 US cents, near its 17-year high and gaining fast on the US dollar.

Population of Sydney - ~ 4,000,000. Population of Australia - around 20,000,000. Percent of population = 20%.

Population of NYC, NY - ~8,000,000. Population of US - ~301,000,000.
Percent of population = Less than 3%.

Apples to meatballs. You completely ignore the numbers behind the numbers. Overall a MUCH higher number of Austrailian citizens are affected by the expense of Sydney than are US citizens by NYC. Yeh, you can toss in LA & Chicago, but it still is fraction of the population density of Sydney compared to the population of the country.

Why didn't you add the fact that our TYPICAL income is also proven to be much more than typical American income.

Here, I'll say it again:

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes.

Federal minimum wage in US: $5.15/hour

Minimum wage in my state is $16/hour but nobody wants to work if you paid under $18/hour.

 

[Pacemaker]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic


And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.

WTF? I've answered everything on cost of living and exchange rate. Here it is again:

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

Addendum (repeated from ear;lier post also): The Australian dollar buys 82 US cents, near its 17-year high and gaining fast on the US dollar.

Population of Sydney - ~ 4,000,000. Population of Australia - around 20,000,000. Percent of population = 20%.

Population of NYC, NY - ~8,000,000. Population of US - ~301,000,000.
Percent of population = Less than 3%.

Apples to meatballs. You completely ignore the numbers behind the numbers. Overall a MUCH higher number of Austrailian citizens are affected by the expense of Sydney than are US citizens by NYC. Yeh, you can toss in LA & Chicago, but it still is fraction of the population density of Sydney compared to the population of the country.

Why didn't you add the fact that our TYPICAL income is also proven to be much more than typical American income.

Here, I'll say it again:

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes.

Federal minimum wage in US: $5.15/hour

Minimum wage in my state is $16/hour but nobody wants to work if you paid under $18/hour.

Federal Minimum wage = apples
State Minimum wage = oranges

 

[So]

Originally posted by: malG
Why didn't you add the fact that our TYPICAL income is also proven to be much more than typical American income.

Here, I'll say it again:

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes.

Federal minimum wage in US: $5.15/hour

Minimum wage in my state is $16/hour but nobody wants to work if you paid under $18/hour.

That's funny:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_per_capita_%28PPP%29

3 United States 41,399 2004

13 Australia 30,897 2004

Facts seem to disagree with your delusions.

 

[rufruf44]

Aaah, Perth, where the redneck and racist of Australia still dwells. Figures.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic


And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.

WTF? I've answered everything on cost of living and exchange rate. Here it is again:

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

That was already shot down. If your cost of living is so moderate there, then why are homes so expensive?

Our homes are expensive yet we can afford them better than Americans. Our TYPICAL income is also proven to be much more than typical American income. I've been to the US several times as I mentioned earlier. Too bad you don't have money to visit Perth, it's a beautiful place you know.

Which is why Americans have a comparable homeownership rate. And WTF troll, who says I don't have any more money to visit Perth than you do to visit Portland? It's beautiful here too. Probably more so than the desert where you live.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic


And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.

WTF? I've answered everything on cost of living and exchange rate. Here it is again:

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

That was already shot down. If your cost of living is so moderate there, then why are homes so expensive?

Our homes are expensive yet we can afford them better than Americans. Our TYPICAL income is also proven to be much more than typical American income. I've been to the US several times as I mentioned earlier. Too bad you don't have money to visit Perth, it's a beautiful place you know.

Which is why Americans have a comparable homeownership rate. And WTF troll, who says I don't have any more money to visit Perth than you do to visit Portland? It's beautiful here too. Probably more so than the desert where you live.

You won't miss much. Most of everything shutdown after 6PM

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: So


That's funny:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_per_capita_%28PPP%29

3 United States 41,399 2004

13 Australia 30,897 2004

Facts seem to disagree with your delusions.

That's the 4th time this has come up. Please read previous answers to this question.

 

[malG]

Originally posted by: Pacemaker

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: Vic


And we have already discussed differences in exchange rates and costs of living, although the OP (in his trolling) continues to ignore that.

WTF? I've answered everything on cost of living and exchange rate. Here it is again:

Yes, cost of living is expensive in major cities like Sydney or NYC but isn't that like most major cities?

I live in Perth, Western Australia where the cost of living is very moderate.

Addendum (repeated from ear;lier post also): The Australian dollar buys 82 US cents, near its 17-year high and gaining fast on the US dollar.

Population of Sydney - ~ 4,000,000. Population of Australia - around 20,000,000. Percent of population = 20%.

Population of NYC, NY - ~8,000,000. Population of US - ~301,000,000.
Percent of population = Less than 3%.

Apples to meatballs. You completely ignore the numbers behind the numbers. Overall a MUCH higher number of Austrailian citizens are affected by the expense of Sydney than are US citizens by NYC. Yeh, you can toss in LA & Chicago, but it still is fraction of the population density of Sydney compared to the population of the country.

Why didn't you add the fact that our TYPICAL income is also proven to be much more than typical American income.

Here, I'll say it again:

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes.

Federal minimum wage in US: $5.15/hour

Minimum wage in my state is $16/hour but nobody wants to work if you paid under $18/hour.

Federal Minimum wage = apples
State Minimum wage = oranges

Call it what you want, anyway you look at it our TYPICAL income is proven to be much more than typical American income.

I challenge you to prove otherwise.

 

[Pacemaker]

Originally posted by: malG

Why didn't you add the fact that our TYPICAL income is also proven to be much more than typical American income.

Here, I'll say it again:

Even if an American entry level employee gets paid TRIPLE the federal minimum wage, it's still less then Aussie employee makes.

Federal minimum wage in US: $5.15/hour

Minimum wage in my state is $16/hour but nobody wants to work if you paid under $18/hour.

Originally posted by: malG

That's the 4th time this has come up. Please read previous answers to this question.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: soulcougher73

Well once people got to the retirement age and realized they didnt have any money and the government didnt have any to give you since you didnt pay into it. We would have a hugre influx of homeless people. Which then the goverment would want to figure out how to help them and its a big vicious circle LOL. I am not great with money i admit it. But im glad we have social security to back us up when im at a retirement age. Assuming it is still around by then.

only people who are bad with money like social security. you'd have to be an utter moron with money to select SS voluntarily.