Ok Conjur based on saying "I support our troops to do their best to stabilize Iraq so they may come home ASAP" I take back what I said. I was wrong to assume you did not support the troops. I can admit when I was wrong. Unfortunately you are no longer a member of the "ilk". No t-shirt for you!
Ok Conjur based on saying "I support our troops to do their best to stabilize Iraq so they may come home ASAP" I take back what I said. I was wrong to assume you did not support the troops. I can admit when I was wrong. Unfortunately you are no longer a member of the "ilk". No t-shirt for you!
No he's right. We have to do our own Ethnic Cleansing throughout the world to re-populate under U.S. Govt Rule under the guise of Terrorism.
I remember that, BTW WMD were not the ONLY reason, Saddams links and ability to wage terrorsim were also a primary reason.
"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone could agree on," Wolfowitz was quoted as saying in Vanity Fair magazine's July issue.
You are ASSUming they were even aware of what Putin presented to Bush, which was NEVER DISCLOSED until AFTER the war began by PUTIN, not the administration. Here is a link to that thread so everyone can see how YOU got PWNED AGAIN on this question.
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...key=y&keyword1=WMD
Do you still stand by this comment you made in that thread?
"The only people that firmly believed Saddam had WMDs were the Bush administration and the PNAC neocons in the OSP. "
Again, What should Bush have done when presented with that evidence by Putin? Why is that reason not just cause for taking Saddam out?
If you can't answer the DIRECT questions there is no need for you to say anthing. Your tactic of calling others ignoarant are as old and as empty as your opinions.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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:roll: So what did you think of Bosnia?
This is why I hate both parties and partisanship PERIOD. Kettle, meet Pot. Pot, meet Kettle.
Whine, whine, whine, bitch, bitch, bitch, lies, lies, lies... both the major party fanbois are competely guilty of it all. And, in your doublethink, completely blind to it.
The dividing issue here is that different people have different opinions about what exactly it is that is good for the country. "Wow, there's a obvious statement."
I think it took the US to arrange the Dayton Accords, and within days to garner UN approval for military action to stop the genocide happening there. Why the US, because the EU wasn't doing a damn thing to stop it themselves.
Typical Conjur, I'm sure he'll post in here much later after I'm gone and feel like he "won", lol, what a joke.
<disclaimer>I'll admit im too lazy to catch up on this thread, Ive only read the OP and skimmed the rest</disclaimer>
You can support the troops, but not the war. In fact, quite a few military personel are against this war, even the republican ones. As long as they still do the mission that gets handed down to them, I'm 100% ok with this. Would I lose faith in my platoon Sgt because he doesnt support the war(he doesnt)? hell no, I know he still has my back regardless, and thats all that matters to me, freedom of speech is what we protect, so why would I come down on him for not agreeing with me?, I'm glad he has well formed opinions, actually it helps keep my opinions in a good perspective, which probably wouldnt be the case if everyone just agreed with me all the time.
Though I agree the line between supporting the troops and supporting the war can easily be blurred, either by the issues sheer complexity or the manipulation of it for political gain of either parties candidates. It is against my beliefs to try and use something like this to leverage against the beliefs of others. The fact that ~75% of the military is conservative/republican, does not mean we should all take thier word for it and not think for ourselves. That would be like saying because 75% of rich people, or poor people, city dwellers, country folk, etc. vote a certain way, we should be like them and vote that way too, people should come to thier own conclusions, avoid mob mentality and break out of your demographics, because the vallue of your vote does not change based on your characteristics, its sill one vote.
You can support the troops, but not the war. In fact, quite a few military personel are against this war, even the republican ones. As long as they still do the mission that gets handed down to them, I'm 100% ok with this. Would I lose faith in my platoon Sgt because he doesnt support the war(he doesnt)? hell no, I know he still has my back regardless, and thats all that matters to me, freedom of speech is what we protect, so why would I come down on him for not agreeing with me?, I'm glad he has well formed opinions, actually it helps keep my opinions in a good perspective, which probably wouldnt be the case if everyone just agreed with me all the time.
Though I agree the line between supporting the troops and supporting the war can easily be blurred, either by the issues sheer complexity or the manipulation of it for political gain of either parties candidates. It is against my beliefs to try and use something like this to leverage against the beliefs of others. The fact that ~75% of the military is conservative/republican, does not mean we should all take thier word for it and not think for ourselves. That would be like saying because 75% of rich people, or poor people, city dwellers, country folk, etc. vote a certain way, we should be like them and vote that way too, people should come to thier own conclusions, avoid mob mentality and break out of your demographics, because the vallue of your vote does not change based on your characteristics, its sill one vote.
:thumbsup: I totally agree. Liberals, conservatives, moderates, whomever do not have a monopoly on patriotism. OP doesn't know me, OP can't read minds but assumes just because I do not support the policies of this administration in Iraq that I do not support the troops. I didn't support getting into the Iraq mess but now that we are there, we need to fix it, declare victory and get our troops home.
Oh and I forgot to add that I believe in the "All or nothing" approach to a war. Debating it is fine, but once a decision is made, we either go all in or not at all. And at this point saying we should never have gone in in the first place can be divisive, its not like changing everyones mind about going to war now will help anybody, it will only hurt things. We are there, so lets finish it 100%, then get the f*** out. Lets lay blame and point out mistakes after the troops are all home safe, and we can learn from the good and the bad of the whole expirience.
Putin is a whackjob and is not a credible source, and does not have the interests of americans at heart. His claims should have been given extreme scepticism at not be taken at face value.
my family has been military since WW2. I support their military service, and any other service man and woman, and wish for their speedy return home. I don't support an unjustfied war. They are there by order of the president. They will support the president with their vote, this is a known reality. It's the good ol boys club mentality in the military during times of war. You don't wanna be known as the guy who voted for Kerry
That information was AGAINST their own interests, both in their corrput relationship with Saddam in relation to the "Food for Oil" program and their own oil industry. They also had a VERY cozy relationship with Saddam and are currently "stroring" the most sensitive of Iraqs internal records, nobody had better access. They have ourt interests at heart too though, they are extrememly dependent on our $$$, which is why I think we won out over Saddam and the evidence was given.
I agree with you to an extent. However, before the war, we weren't supposed to question the reasons given for going into Iraq less we be called unamerican. Certainly during the invasion, we weren't supposed to question the war or the planning. Now during the occupation, we aren't supposed to question the decisions that were made and how the occupation is going? We can only question the reasons, planning and execution of this war only after it is finished - when it will be an academic exercise and not change a single thing?
You point out the problems so they can be fixed. We need more troops. We need more help. We need better intelligence. We need train the Iraqi faster so they can police themselves. We need to crush the rebels. We needed better planning, etc. I also know that without the protests and the pressure from the American people, the Vietnam war would have lasted a lot longer and more troops would have died if the American people were silent.
Give me a clue then, at least in regards to the part you italicized. That should have been obvious, their interest in us is based on their own self interest, not primarily for us, but because of their dependence on our continued investment in their country.
(Next time PLEASE bold, much easier to type, lol)
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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I appreciate the idea, but it is no where near feasible short of repealing the 1st Amendment.Originally posted by: Alistar7
Quit being so damn rational, youll wind up getting banned
Dissent is the pillar of freedom and democracy. To use your same flawed logic, love it or leave it.
Originally posted by: Vic
I appreciate the idea, but it is no where near feasible short of repealing the 1st Amendment.Originally posted by: Alistar7
Quit being so damn rational, youll wind up getting banned
Dissent is the pillar of freedom and democracy. To use your same flawed logic, love it or leave it.
I'm sorry Vic, some of my posts are attempts at humor, and as you have stated previously you have no sense of humor, so I understand why you missed that completely, lol.
Mean MrMustard
Diamond Member
- Jan 5, 2001
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"All or Nothing" != "love it or Leave it"Originally posted by: Vic
I appreciate the idea, but it is no where near feasible short of repealing the 1st Amendment.Originally posted by: Alistar7
Quit being so damn rational, youll wind up getting banned
Dissent is the pillar of freedom and democracy. To use your same flawed logic, love it or leave it.
Imagine you and your wife are going out to dinner, but cant agree where to eat, do you get in the car and wrestle over the wheel at every turn? or do you figure out where to go, then go there? And just because your eating at her favorite restuaraunt, and not yours, doesnt mean you should itch and moan about it all night, you should order your best options from the menu, and enoy it. but next time you can say, "you know what honey, the service at your place sucks, this time we are going to MY restuarant" Get it?
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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Your analogy is deeply flawed in many aspects. I'm not even sure where to begin, but I'm not even going to get into the part about how my relationship with my wife is much better than it is with all of you
. But does this mean you're gonna compromise and let the peaceniks have their way the next time we consider war? Of course not.*poof* goes your argument.
You don't have to support the war to support the troops. I think most of our soldiers over there are really fighting for each other and just wanting to get back home to their families. They don't have time to follow all the news networks like we do. They're just doing the job they were ordered to carry out, watching out for each other, and hoping to get home in one piece.
When Bush talked about how Kerry was sending mixed messages to our troops, that made me wonder... What kind of message does it send your troops to lead them into a war that was 100% based around WMDs and Iraq's imminent threat to America, then to basically say "oops, no WMDs here after all, but hey, let's fight to give them democracy. That should be a cause worth fighting and dying for".
And people can say what they want about Osama's latest tape, but to me, that just shows how misguided the war in Iraq really is. Here's the guy that actually did attack us, and he's alive and well, and making new videos.
When Bush talked about how Kerry was sending mixed messages to our troops, that made me wonder... What kind of message does it send your troops to lead them into a war that was 100% based around WMDs and Iraq's imminent threat to America, then to basically say "oops, no WMDs here after all, but hey, let's fight to give them democracy. That should be a cause worth fighting and dying for".
And people can say what they want about Osama's latest tape, but to me, that just shows how misguided the war in Iraq really is. Here's the guy that actually did attack us, and he's alive and well, and making new videos.
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