How can the Republicans win it all back?

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Above is true. Also if the economy is still bad in 2012 and the GOP gets off the social stuff they can come back.

You guys are clueless about this "social stuff"

The losses the Republicans faced in 2006 and 2008 had NOTHING to do with social stuff.

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marrie is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Republicans are the pro-life party. Recent polls suggest that for the first time ever more people call themselves pro-life than pro-choice.

As for latinos, they are very socially conservative, or did you forget that most of them are Catholics.

Elections aren't decided by social issues, they are decided by pocketbook issues. The economy was bad and thus the party in power got kicked out of power. This has been the case in EVERY election since at least 1980. If you predicted elections based on the economy only you would be 8-0 since then.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
It's simple. The Republicans need to go back to being the conservative party (both socially and fiscally), instead of trying to be the "Democrat Lite" party. They had a "moderate" candidate in 2008 in McCain, and Bush was anything but fiscally conservative. They need to get back to the Republican party of Reagan.

I have thought about this strategy of the GOP kicking moderates out of their party. The only way I can see this being successful is if the US voter is really "center right". I have not seen any polls or evidence that support this evaluation.

Looking back at past presidential elections for the political drivers:

1964: Goldwater was too conservative.

1968: Viet Nam war, Civil Rights for Afro-Americans, and the resultant social unrest.

1976: Watergate

1980: The economy

1992: The economy

2000: Sex scandal

2008: The economy and the Iraqi war.

The majority of Americans oppose closing Gitmo:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...2009-06-01-gitmo_N.htm

More Americans are pro-life than pro-choice now:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118...Choice-First-Time.aspx

Most Americans oppose bailing out the auto companies:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/03/auto.poll/

Need more proof that America is a center-right nation?

They had a choice last election: a true Democrat (Obama) or a Democrat-Lite (McCain). They didn't have a true "conservative" candidate.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Above is true. Also if the economy is still bad in 2012 and the GOP gets off the social stuff they can come back.

You guys are clueless about this "social stuff"

The losses the Republicans faced in 2006 and 2008 had NOTHING to do with social stuff.

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marrie is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Republicans are the pro-life party. Recent polls suggest that for the first time ever more people call themselves pro-life than pro-choice.

As for latinos, they are very socially conservative, or did you forget that most of them are Catholics.

Elections aren't decided by social issues, they are decided by pocketbook issues. The economy was bad and thus the party in power got kicked out of power. This has been the case in EVERY election since at least 1980. If you predicted elections based on the economy only you would be 8-0 since then.

Wrong: look at Spain.

 

[yllus]

1. Promise lower taxes and more cash in the hands of voters. How to offset that loss of tax revenue isn't important.
2. Wait for the people to get tired of Democrat rule.

That's all.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marrie is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Uh, Obama is on the 'no gay marriage' side with the 52% of Californians.

I'd say you approach dishonesty though with your game-playing with numbers barely within the hair of the truth to mislead.

But that would if you had told the truth on the numbers, playing a game where the small prop 8 margin of victory - 52 to 47% - were a razor larger than Obama's margin.

But Obama's CA margin was 60.9% to McCain 37%.[/quote]

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Craig234
The same way as usual. Build an effective propaganda machine that lies, obtain funding by selling the policies to the highest bidders, and count on the short memory of the public.

Good plan, it certainly worked for Obama.

No, it didn't. Obama built an effective *communication* operation, which was mostly accurate, not propaganda, though to a small degree it was less than accurate, e.g., on civil rights.

Obama *did not* sell out policies to the highest bidder - the limited corruption of the Democrats pales in comparison to the wholesale corruption of the Bush administration literally appointing hundreds of donor industry representatives to the government oversight positions, setting policy by holding meetings with donor industries and asking them for wish lists which were made into bills (sometimes, the industries actually writng the bill itself), etc. Obama has his own issues, but he and the Democratic Congress have reduced the corruption.

If you're going to cross the line to scumbag lying, we're not going to continue the discussion.

Oh please, you are so full of shit and you don't even know it.

Obama's 'communication' operation was 'mostly accurate, not propaganda' which explains why he keeps going back on promises left and right?

End the war in Iraq, no not really.
Stop warrant less wiretaps, no not really.
Stop the Gitmo tribunals, no not really.

And did you miss this story??
Obama just picked some of his biggest donors to be ambassadors to England, Japan, Denmark and France.

The only difference between Bush and Obama on issues like this is who gets the spoils.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
It's simple. The Republicans need to go back to being the conservative party (both socially and fiscally), instead of trying to be the "Democrat Lite" party. They had a "moderate" candidate in 2008 in McCain, and Bush was anything but fiscally conservative. They need to get back to the Republican party of Reagan.

I have thought about this strategy of the GOP kicking moderates out of their party. The only way I can see this being successful is if the US voter is really "center right". I have not seen any polls or evidence that support this evaluation.

Looking back at past presidential elections for the political drivers:

1964: Goldwater was too conservative.

1968: Viet Nam war, Civil Rights for Afro-Americans, and the resultant social unrest.

1976: Watergate

1980: The economy

1992: The economy

2000: Sex scandal

2008: The economy and the Iraqi war.

The majority of Americans oppose closing Gitmo:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...2009-06-01-gitmo_N.htm

More Americans are pro-life than pro-choice now:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118...Choice-First-Time.aspx

Most Americans oppose bailing out the auto companies:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/03/auto.poll/

Need more proof that America is a center-right nation?

They had a choice last election: a true Democrat (Obama) or a Democrat-Lite (McCain). They didn't have a true "conservative" candidate.

I am not sure closing Gitmo and the bailout of the auto industry are left vs right issues.

Mr McCain ran a campaign directed towards the GOP base. One of the reasons he chose Ms Palin was because of her appeal to the social conservatives.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Above is true. Also if the economy is still bad in 2012 and the GOP gets off the social stuff they can come back.

You guys are clueless about this "social stuff"

The losses the Republicans faced in 2006 and 2008 had NOTHING to do with social stuff.

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marrie is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Republicans are the pro-life party. Recent polls suggest that for the first time ever more people call themselves pro-life than pro-choice.

As for latinos, they are very socially conservative, or did you forget that most of them are Catholics.

Elections aren't decided by social issues, they are decided by pocketbook issues. The economy was bad and thus the party in power got kicked out of power. This has been the case in EVERY election since at least 1980. If you predicted elections based on the economy only you would be 8-0 since then.

Wrong: look at Spain.

ummm most of us don't live in Spain.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: HomerJS
Above is true. Also if the economy is still bad in 2012 and the GOP gets off the social stuff they can come back.

You guys are clueless about this "social stuff"

The losses the Republicans faced in 2006 and 2008 had NOTHING to do with social stuff.

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marrie is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Republicans are the pro-life party. Recent polls suggest that for the first time ever more people call themselves pro-life than pro-choice.

As for latinos, they are very socially conservative, or did you forget that most of them are Catholics.

Elections aren't decided by social issues, they are decided by pocketbook issues. The economy was bad and thus the party in power got kicked out of power. This has been the case in EVERY election since at least 1980. If you predicted elections based on the economy only you would be 8-0 since then.

Wrong: look at Spain.

ummm most of us don't live in Spain.

ummmm, I thought you were talking about elections at a universal level, but if you want to keep this insular, go right ahead.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marriage is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Uh, Obama is on the 'no gay marriage' side with the 52% of Californians.

I'd say you approach dishonesty though with your game-playing with numbers barely within the hair of the truth to mislead.

But that would if you had told the truth on the numbers, playing a game where the small prop 8 margin of victory - 52 to 47% - were a razor larger than Obama's margin.

But Obama's CA margin was 60.9% to McCain 37%.

[/quote]
Do you really think Obama is anti-gay marriage??

And if he is that doesn't give the rest of the Democrat party a pass since the majority of them definitely aren't.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
ummmm, I thought you were talking about elections at a universal level, but if you want to keep this insular, go right ahead.

ummm look at the thread title and think about it for a second, it should come to you.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marriage is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Uh, Obama is on the 'no gay marriage' side with the 52% of Californians.

I'd say you approach dishonesty though with your game-playing with numbers barely within the hair of the truth to mislead.

But that would if you had told the truth on the numbers, playing a game where the small prop 8 margin of victory - 52 to 47% - were a razor larger than Obama's margin.

But Obama's CA margin was 60.9% to McCain 37%.

Do you really think Obama is anti-gay marriage??

And if he is that doesn't give the rest of the Democrat party a pass since the majority of them definitely aren't.

No, I simply think that he is aware that many US citzens (i.e. voters) are bigots and he does not want to alienate them.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Red Irish
ummmm, I thought you were talking about elections at a universal level, but if you want to keep this insular, go right ahead.

ummm look at the thread title and think about it for a second, it should come to you.

ummm, the right-wing party in Spain lost the elections as a direct result of its involvement in the Iraq war and the backlash against Bush. I thought it was relevant. Perhaps we should restrict debate to your street.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
It's simple. The Republicans need to go back to being the conservative party (both socially and fiscally), instead of trying to be the "Democrat Lite" party. They had a "moderate" candidate in 2008 in McCain, and Bush was anything but fiscally conservative. They need to get back to the Republican party of Reagan.

I have thought about this strategy of the GOP kicking moderates out of their party. The only way I can see this being successful is if the US voter is really "center right". I have not seen any polls or evidence that support this evaluation.

Looking back at past presidential elections for the political drivers:

1964: Goldwater was too conservative.

1968: Viet Nam war, Civil Rights for Afro-Americans, and the resultant social unrest.

1976: Watergate

1980: The economy

1992: The economy

2000: Sex scandal

2008: The economy and the Iraqi war.

The majority of Americans oppose closing Gitmo:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...2009-06-01-gitmo_N.htm

More Americans are pro-life than pro-choice now:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118...Choice-First-Time.aspx

Most Americans oppose bailing out the auto companies:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/03/auto.poll/

Need more proof that America is a center-right nation?

They had a choice last election: a true Democrat (Obama) or a Democrat-Lite (McCain). They didn't have a true "conservative" candidate.

Most Americans want universal healthcare

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03...ington/01cnd-poll.html

In fact, most americans want to expand medicare to everyone:

http://marketplace.publicradio...medicare_for_everyone/


Most Americans were against Bush's attempt to privatize social security

http://www.retiredamericans.or...Details/i/1487/pid/473

However, almost 70% of those polled thought private accounts, which would lead to benefit cuts, were a "bad idea," according to The New York Times/CBS poll. Despite weeks of presidential campaigning on Mr. Bush's top domestic priority, a USA Today/CNN/Gallup revealed that support for the president on Social Security has actually dropped in three weeks from 43% to 35%.

Support for President Bush on Social Security has dropped from 43% to 35%

Why do you think Republicans couldn't cut shit when they were in power? Because Americans would have thrown them out of government even faster than they did.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marriage is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Uh, Obama is on the 'no gay marriage' side with the 52% of Californians.

I'd say you approach dishonesty though with your game-playing with numbers barely within the hair of the truth to mislead.

But that would if you had told the truth on the numbers, playing a game where the small prop 8 margin of victory - 52 to 47% - were a razor larger than Obama's margin.

But Obama's CA margin was 60.9% to McCain 37%.

Do you really think Obama is anti-gay marriage??

And if he is that doesn't give the rest of the Democrat party a pass since the majority of them definitely aren't.

No, I simply think that he is aware that many US citzens (i.e. voters) are bigots and he does not want to alienate them.

So...Obama is a boldface liar who lies to appease bigots...I see that you have a high opinion of our President.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marriage is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Uh, Obama is on the 'no gay marriage' side with the 52% of Californians.

I'd say you approach dishonesty though with your game-playing with numbers barely within the hair of the truth to mislead.

But that would if you had told the truth on the numbers, playing a game where the small prop 8 margin of victory - 52 to 47% - were a razor larger than Obama's margin.

But Obama's CA margin was 60.9% to McCain 37%.

Do you really think Obama is anti-gay marriage??

And if he is that doesn't give the rest of the Democrat party a pass since the majority of them definitely aren't.

No, I simply think that he is aware that many US citzens (i.e. voters) are bigots and he does not want to alienate them.

So...Obama is a boldface liar who lies to appease bigots...I see that you have a high opinion of our President.

How did this thread become about Mr Obama?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marriage is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Uh, Obama is on the 'no gay marriage' side with the 52% of Californians.

I'd say you approach dishonesty though with your game-playing with numbers barely within the hair of the truth to mislead.

But that would if you had told the truth on the numbers, playing a game where the small prop 8 margin of victory - 52 to 47% - were a razor larger than Obama's margin.

But Obama's CA margin was 60.9% to McCain 37%.

Do you really think Obama is anti-gay marriage??

And if he is that doesn't give the rest of the Democrat party a pass since the majority of them definitely aren't.

No, I simply think that he is aware that many US citzens (i.e. voters) are bigots and he does not want to alienate them.

So...Obama is a boldface liar who lies to appease bigots...I see that you have a high opinion of our President.

First, for the record, it sure gets old the way PJ ignores his countless factual errors that are pointed out to him and he simply pretends the corrections don't exist.

The context of ProfJohn's comment thatObama is on 'the wrong side of Californians who voted 52% against gay marriage' was the *political* issue.

And Obama's 'official' position is relevant to those politics; directly contradicting PJ's statement, his *stated* position is on the *same* side with the 52%.

It's a separate issue, unrelated to PJ's comment, whether Obama privately has another opinion.

Unfortunately, Doc, I suspect that there's some truth to the speculation that Obama is 'playing politics' on the issue and is politically motivated to oppose gay marriage.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Republicans support bans on gay marriage. Every time gay marriage is on the ballot the Republican view wins. In California the gay marriage ban won by a greater margin than Obama, suggesting that it is Obama who is on the wrong side of the issue. (at least politically)

Uh, Obama is on the 'no gay marriage' side with the 52% of Californians.

I'd say you approach dishonesty though with your game-playing with numbers barely within the hair of the truth to mislead.

But that would if you had told the truth on the numbers, playing a game where the small prop 8 margin of victory - 52 to 47% - were a razor larger than Obama's margin.

But Obama's CA margin was 60.9% to McCain 37%.

Do you really think Obama is anti-gay marriage??

And if he is that doesn't give the rest of the Democrat party a pass since the majority of them definitely aren't.

No, I simply think that he is aware that many US citzens (i.e. voters) are bigots and he does not want to alienate them.

So...Obama is a boldface liar who lies to appease bigots...I see that you have a high opinion of our President.

As a matter of fact I do (imo Bush was the worst president you have ever had), but he's a politician, so let's be realistic.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
I am not sure closing Gitmo and the bailout of the auto industry are left vs right issues.

Mr McCain ran a campaign directed towards the GOP base. One of the reasons he chose Ms Palin was because of her appeal to the social conservatives.

Gitmo is a left vs right issue. The left believes that through some sort of magic, Gitmo is a recruiting tool for the terrorists (tip: they hate us anyway, regardless of Gitmo or no). The right believes that Gitmo is a neutral site off-shore to keep some of the most dangerous threats to America (which it is). Even Democrats are balking at closing Gitmo, since even they can't deny that Gitmo is very important.

McCain is a "moderate" Republican, at best. There's a reason he's called "Maverick". He is only slightly more conservative than Arlen Specter.

You are correct about Sarah Palin. I know that she's the main reason I voted for McCain. McCain is pretty meh, but Palin is solid. It's too bad she was absolutely trashed by the liberal media, but what can you expect? They did the same to Carrie Prejean.

Where's the ACLU or Women's Rights groups in those two cases?

Anyway, I digress...

 

[heyheybooboo]

:laugh: at the Contards in denial

Topic: How can the Republicans win it all back?

I don't know. Stop lying will help.

The Recovery Act ballooned to $935 billion and was cut to $787 billion. Take a little partial credit instead of knee-jerking in outrage, spreading propaganda and partisan FUD.

The Recovery Act included $300 billion in tax cuts for individuals and businesses. A good idea during the greatest economic crisis since the great depression. It includes another temporary fix for the AMT (and Obama's budgets actually address it) instead of running away from the problem.

I know the Cons can go along with that.

I know how difficult it is for the Cons to relate to the concepts of Federalism and governmental partnership but opposition to $140 billion in aid to the States when they are facing over $400 billion in deficits over the next 3 years is not really addressing our dire economic condition.

And as difficult as it may seem for Republicans $160 billion for science and education and infrastructure is not a bad thing. Nor is $60 billion for energy when Big Oil buys back that much stock each year.

"Drill, Baby, Drill" is not an energy strategy when there is a two-month supply, a 1 mb/d excess of production over consumption with prices that have increased 30% in the last month.


And LOL at your polls - John McCain was ahead by ten points in September, wasn't he?

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
I am not sure closing Gitmo and the bailout of the auto industry are left vs right issues.

Mr McCain ran a campaign directed towards the GOP base. One of the reasons he chose Ms Palin was because of her appeal to the social conservatives.

Gitmo is a left vs right issue. The left believes that through some sort of magic, Gitmo is a recruiting tool for the terrorists (tip: they hate us anyway, regardless of Gitmo or no). The right believes that Gitmo is a neutral site off-shore to keep some of the most dangerous threats to America (which it is). Even Democrats are balking at closing Gitmo, since even they can't deny that Gitmo is very important.

McCain is a "moderate" Republican, at best. There's a reason he's called "Maverick". He is only slightly more conservative than Arlen Specter.

You are correct about Sarah Palin. I know that she's the main reason I voted for McCain. McCain is pretty meh, but Palin is solid. It's too bad she was absolutely trashed by the liberal media, but what can you expect? They did the same to Carrie Prejean.

Where's the ACLU or Women's Rights groups in those two cases?

Anyway, I digress...

Jesus, you admit to this in public? Ryan, you have balls of steel.

 

[Craig234]

nm

 

[Siddhartha]

Poll added

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
I am not sure closing Gitmo and the bailout of the auto industry are left vs right issues.

Mr McCain ran a campaign directed towards the GOP base. One of the reasons he chose Ms Palin was because of her appeal to the social conservatives.

Gitmo is a left vs right issue. The left believes that through some sort of magic, Gitmo is a recruiting tool for the terrorists (tip: they hate us anyway, regardless of Gitmo or no). The right believes that Gitmo is a neutral site off-shore to keep some of the most dangerous threats to America (which it is). Even Democrats are balking at closing Gitmo, since even they can't deny that Gitmo is very important.

McCain is a "moderate" Republican, at best. There's a reason he's called "Maverick". He is only slightly more conservative than Arlen Specter.

You are correct about Sarah Palin. I know that she's the main reason I voted for McCain. McCain is pretty meh, but Palin is solid. It's too bad she was absolutely trashed by the liberal media, but what can you expect? They did the same to Carrie Prejean.

Where's the ACLU or Women's Rights groups in those two cases?

Anyway, I digress...

Jesus, you admit to this in public? Ryan, you have balls of steel.

I also voted for McCain.. Drill baby drill In any case, if the dem's screw up, the repubs will be back. From the first 100 days, the left is screwing up big time... regardless of what the loony left that dominates this forum says.

Yes, the repubs can come back with a vengeance if things keep going down down hill like we are now.

Imagine a pissed of public, giving hell to the government in the next election muttering the following:

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you."

Instead of a bullet to the brain a la Samual Jackson, they use the ballot box to cut of the heads of the pied piper who promised them the world and change, but instead gave them lies and unemployment.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
It's simple. The Republicans need to go back to being the conservative party (both socially and fiscally), instead of trying to be the "Democrat Lite" party. They had a "moderate" candidate in 2008 in McCain, and Bush was anything but fiscally conservative. They need to get back to the Republican party of Reagan.

I think that they just need to become fiscally conservative on all issues, but especially the military/war thing. The social conservative stuff is a real turn off for the younger generation. It appeals only to a demographic that grows smaller every year due to old age.