House apologizes for slavery and Jim Crow

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: eskimospy
IGBT, you need to learn some history. Southern Democrats and Northern Democrats were so different from one another until about the 80's or so that they might as well have been two different political parties. If you look up the 'conservative coalition' you will see that while Dixie Democrats formed a caucus with Northern Democrats to organize the two congressional chambers, they frequently teamed up with the Republicans to defeat civil rights legislation, things like that. In the 80's however the homogenization of the two political parties has pretty much eliminated regional factions, and so the Southern Democrats are no more.

Since the people in the South still want the same basic policies as they always wanted however, they vote for the Republicans instead of the Democrats. This is why the south that was dominated by Democrats for 100 years suddenly switched over to being super solid Republican. The people didn't change what they wanted, the parties changed with the Republicans picking up the mantle of race baiting.

Keep in mind that most of the posters here are unaware that the 2 major parties in the US are coalition parties. Most of their black-and-white partisan arguments look pretty silly when that is taken into account.

Another thing to note is that as both the major parties in the US are technically liberal, when modern 'conservatives' use the term liberal as a epithet, what they're really saying is 'Yankee.'

Meh. The rebels want to go at it again. They've always hated that they signed the Constitution, especially the 1st amendment. They can't seem to live without their slave society and their need to repress the simplest most basic human rights of those not exactly like them. In a way, it's like 1860 all over again, and in another way, I'm hoping they're going to be just as stupid all over again. They lost last time because England didn't need their cotton, and they'll lose this time because the whole damned planet hates them and their hypocritically un-American ways.

WTH? First, you criticize people for their "black and white partisan arguments", then you go into a one sided rant about "modern conservatives". Am I missing something here?

Yeah, a lot apparently.

Such as?

 

[Reckoner]

The first batch of checks already went out, didn't you know?

Text

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JD50
Such as?

Your support of the idea that people should pay reparations based on loose political affiliation for one.
My black-and-white comment was in regards to the fact that most people seem to think of the 2 major parties as monolithic entities, when instead (as I noted) they are both coalition parties, i.e. composed of various diverse interests that come together as it suits them and which change over time.
You also missed another of my comments, like how both major political parties in the US are technically liberal in ideology, so why does one use the word 'liberal' as an epithet? So why do the modern liberal conservatives in the US do that? And so forth.
To which I provided a likely rationale based simply from looking at a map of voting patterns in the past several elections, combined with my knowledge of the events leading up to the Civil War.

You used to be smarter than this, JD50... :roll:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
The first batch of checks already went out, didn't you know?

Text

I already linked that video in this thread.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Vic
-snip-
Reparations is something you almost never heard about outside of the internet. It will NEVER happen. And if they did, that's the day I stop paying taxes as my ancestors never owned slaves.
Hell, even a large % of black people don't want reparations, see my Dave Chappelle Show link above. And there's a solid reason for this, as they know it would do more harm than good. The phrase that comes to my mind there is from an RATM song, "Fuck the G-ride, I want the machines that're makin' 'em."

I understand that you are against reparations, and hope you are correct in you belief it won't happen *officially*.

However, it is far broader than just on the internet. The IRS has had to deal with it.

The IRS has erroneously issued quite a lot of money for reparations:

In 2000, the IRS received 13,700 claims for the credit. In 2001, there were 80,000 claims. Most taxpayers claimed approximately $43,000 as their credit based on the information in Essence, but at least one taxpayer claimed ? and received a refund for ? $500,000.

As many as 200 claims appear to have been processed by the IRS and the credits were issued to the taxpayers. The IRS reports that it paid out approximately $30 million last year (2201) for these slavery tax credits

Link

Fern

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: JD50
Such as?

Your support of the idea that people should pay reparations based on loose political affiliation for one.
My black-and-white comment was in regards to the fact that most people seem to think of the 2 major parties as monolithic entities, when instead (as I noted) they are both coalition parties, i.e. composed of various diverse interests that come together as it suits them and which change over time.
You also missed another of my comments, like how both major political parties in the US are technically liberal in ideology, so why does one use the word 'liberal' as an epithet? So why do the modern liberal conservatives in the US do that? And so forth.
To which I provided a likely rationale based simply from looking at a map of voting patterns in the past several elections, combined with my knowledge of the events leading up to the Civil War.

You used to be smarter than this, JD50... :roll:

I do not support the idea that people should pay reparations based on loose political affiliation, and I don't think Fern does either (I'm assuming this is in regards to what Fern said). That was a retort to the people that think that people should pay reparations based on skin color.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Socio
House apologizes for slavery and Jim Crow

WASHINGTON - The House on Tuesday issued an unprecedented apology to black Americans for the wrongs committed against them and their ancestors who suffered under slavery and Jim Crow segregation laws.

"Today represents a milestone in our nation's efforts to remedy the ills of our past," said Rep. Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, D-Mich., chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus.

This serves no good purpose; it is nothing more than a segment of the Black community wanting to make the White man crawl again. Neither anyone alive, nor government entity today has any responsibility for what happen back then.

As far as I am concerned America already apologized a long time ago by sacrificing all those lives in the civil war so Blacks could be free. If Blacks are due any other apology then it should come from Islam and its followers. After all it was their ancestors that captured them, forced them in to slavery and sold them to the slave traders in the first place.

Highlighted for relevance. Michigan has no more pressing issue than the one on hand :roll:

link

better

words fail me... that is just.... umm words still fail me.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Butterbean
Obama hates the US and whites, and "reparations" would be just the charade one would expect from a well dressed Marxist hack seeking to divide people. Besides if anyone should apoligize it would have to be Democrats since they were the party of slavery (still are in a softer way)

Civil War Harper's Weekly, May 10, 1862

" The slaveholders for many years had worked with the Democratic party. The consequence was that, to secure the unanimous slave section, the Democratic party gradually relinquished all its fundamental principles, and became an association for the propagation and extension of slavery and the annihilation of the safeguards of liberty. The consequence of this in turn was, that as the party left its principles the best Democrats left the party, until at last the Southern leaders stood in open rebellion, and all loyal national Democrats stood against them."


http://www.sonofthesouth.net/l...atic-party-slavery.htm

If you would jump and shit, would your legs get brown? Don't know? Well you finding that out will have a more positive effect on anyones intellect than you posting.

Go the fuck AWAY you nazist piece of shit!

Errr he posted a news piece from our civil war and he is a nazi? assplain please.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Hey dumbass, need batteries for your sarcasm meter?

I was wondering if you were being sarcastic with that 'they can leave any time' post - that kind of criminal ignorance usually comes from a butterbean or socio - not you. So my apologies in going off previously.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
IGBT, you need to learn some history. Southern Democrats and Northern Democrats were so different from one another until about the 80's or so that they might as well have been two different political parties. If you look up the 'conservative coalition' you will see that while Dixie Democrats formed a caucus with Northern Democrats to organize the two congressional chambers, they frequently teamed up with the Republicans to defeat civil rights legislation, things like that. In the 80's however the homogenization of the two political parties has pretty much eliminated regional factions, and so the Southern Democrats are no more.

Since the people in the South still want the same basic policies as they always wanted however, they vote for the Republicans instead of the Democrats. This is why the south that was dominated by Democrats for 100 years suddenly switched over to being super solid Republican. The people didn't change what they wanted, the parties changed with the Republicans picking up the mantle of race baiting.

Wow...

I'll take "Random US Political History for $1000, Alex".

 

[RY62]

In a speech to minority journalists yesterday, Sen. Barack Obama hinted at his support of "reparations" for minority groups.

"I personally would want to see our tragic history, or the tragic elements of our history, acknowledged," the Democratic presidential hopeful said.

"I consistently believe that when it comes to whether it's Native Americans or African-American issues or reparations, the most important thing for the U.S. government to do is not just offer words, but offer deeds."

"Deeds" would seem to indicate the actual paying out of funds as opposed to some kind of official apology ("words").

This just shows the desparation of the Dem party. They're really worried that Obama can't seal the deal against McCain so they're using things like this and the legalizing pot thing to try and gather more support from the college kids and blacks in his base.

The headline around the college campus should be Vote for Obama and We'll Legalize Weed while the headline in black communities would be Vote for Obama and We'll Give You Money!.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: cubeless

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: cubeless

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: cubeless

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: cubeless
reality is they should hit up the brits and the french... go back to who started this mess...

The Brits and the French?

Ok, how the FUCK does that even make sense. Try Spaniards and the northern Europeans next time shit for brains.

What the fuck do they even teach you poor pre-teens in schools these days?

germans been bombing your crappy little island again or something? maybe try decaffinated tea or something... and you deny that you dickheads were huge in the slave trade???

just got through reading about this in churchill's history of the english... but i'm just gullible and believe everything i read... sorry if you're still pissed that you couldn't keep the colonies slaves, too...

Son, if you have no answer, then just don't answer, this is just pathetic.

you accuse me of a non answer, eh? that is quite a pithy rejoinder you supplied...

and i'm not your son, limpdick... maybe next time you get passed for over major (or whatever would have come after captain in your ever-so-capable service) you can go back to birmingham and get that mall security job you aspire to so that you have a little time to read your own history...

Of fucking course you are not my son, it's very clear you're not my son, i'm smarter than fuck and you are dafter than sheit.

I got a paycheck that any Major or CEO would dance around, but in my crew, if you go beyond Captain you are not in the field, so while i have been offered the higher ranks, when i am done here, and trust me, we will be done here, i am taking the offer at home.

I just don't get why i would go to Birmingham when i and my family live in Sheffield, maybe you thought that is the same place... ahhhaha, you Americans and geography, but please hush, not even retards make such obvious mistakes.

BTW, don't worry about my pension, i will be making more a month than most kae in a year.

smarter than fuck... that's powerful...

it was already pretty obvious from your sig that you are delusional, but this certainly proves it... go back and burn up a little more of that local hooch and beat your chest for a while so you can go to bed and dream of empire lost some more... gotta recharge those batteries with something...

Only thing i drink is Laphroaig and Guiness and since i am in Afghanistan, i'm all out.

I've been told not to flame anyone so i'm going to bid you a dear farewell sir, i'm going out now, maybe you will see this handle on this forum again or maybe you won't, either way, you're still an idiot (sorry my friend, i just had to).

 

[WhipperSnapper]

That's just lovely. Maybe these overpaid aristocrats should stop wasting our time and address real issues--like the national debt, the trade deficit, illegal immigration, foreign work visas, health care, unemployment and underemployment, and the overall state of the nation's economy instead of wasting time with this touchy-feely bullcrap.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

That's just lovely. Maybe these overpaid aristocrats should stop wasting our time and address real issues--like the national debt, the trade deficit, illegal immigration, foreign work visas, health care, unemployment and underemployment, and the overall state of the nation's economy instead of wasting time with this touchy-feely bullcrap.

Apologizing for systematic disenfranchisement and decades of treating an entire race like they are a lesser race is touchy-feely?

Originally posted by: RY62
This just shows the desparation of the Dem party. They're really worried that Obama can't seal the deal against McCain so they're using things like this and the legalizing pot thing to try and gather more support from the college kids and blacks in his base.

He could be against stupid drug laws because they gigantic waste of money and resources. Oh now, its to get votes from a group he already has a 90% rating from. You've cracked the case.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm all in favor of reparations for slavery. I think we should pay everyone who was brought to this country as a slave, or born into slavery $10000. BUT, only to that person, not to any ancestors.

I'll agree to that, if you will agree they can be paid to descendants (wow, a whole $10000?)

After all, if they themselves weren't slaves, we don't owe them anything.

Ya, if your last six famiy generations had been slaves/limited by racism, you wouldn't be any worse off today as a result.

You would be in the same ghetto segregated by race, in the same poverty, with the same education as if your ancestors had been free to get a good educatin etc.

That's how it works - discriminate for hundreds of years, and then stop and it's all equal!

(No, I'm not actually calling for reparations here; rather, I'm just pointing out the lack of understanding I see in the 'I didn't enslave people' argument.)

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

That's just lovely. Maybe these overpaid aristocrats should stop wasting our time and address real issues--like the national debt, the trade deficit, illegal immigration, foreign work visas, health care, unemployment and underemployment, and the overall state of the nation's economy instead of wasting time with this touchy-feely bullcrap.

Apologizing for systematic disenfranchisement and decades of treating an entire race like they are a lesser race is touchy-feely?

Yes, it is. What exactly will the apology accomplish? Not only is it empty symbolism without substance, an apology is also unneeded.

For that matter, is there really anything to apologize for? Slavery was the norm for thousands of years, including in Africa (where it still may very well be practiced today), but it was the United States and Western Civilization that put an end to it. Why should the U.S. apologize for being one of the nations to lead the way in ending slavery and for enshrining the principle of individual rights that led to its eradication? Also, it should be noted that the descendants of the slaves are far, far better off being Americans today than they would be if they had been born in Africa, including the parasites on welfare. An intellectually honest black person would thank his lucky stars that his ancestors had been enslaved and brought to the United States so that he might be born an American instead of being born into the squalor and hopelessness of Africa.

Any African "American" who feels that he has suffered an injustice as a result of slavery that occurred over 100 years ago should feel free to renounce his American citizenship and return to Africa. In fact, if a charitable organization were established to help return blacks to Africa in exchange for a renunciation of citizenship, I bet it would receive a large amount of donations. Call it the "Back to Africa Society" or some such.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Ya, if your last six famiy generations had been slaves/limited by racism, you wouldn't be any worse off today as a result.

You would be in the same ghetto segregated by race, in the same poverty, with the same education as if your ancestors had been free to get a good educatin etc.

That's how it works - discriminate for hundreds of years, and then stop and it's all equal!

(No, I'm not actually calling for reparations here; rather, I'm just pointing out the lack of understanding I see in the 'I didn't enslave people' argument.)

How do you account for the experiences of other minority groups, many of whom were persecuted, who immigrated to America decades after slavery had ended and "made it"? Are whites and Americans in general really responsible for the host of problems that plague the black community? Last I checked, there weren't any laws mandating teenage pregnancies and out-of-wedlock pregnancies for black people, nor drug use, the devaluing of education, and black-on-black crime.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

That's just lovely. Maybe these overpaid aristocrats should stop wasting our time and address real issues--like the national debt, the trade deficit, illegal immigration, foreign work visas, health care, unemployment and underemployment, and the overall state of the nation's economy instead of wasting time with this touchy-feely bullcrap.

Apologizing for systematic disenfranchisement and decades of treating an entire race like they are a lesser race is touchy-feely?

Yes, it is. What exactly will the apology accomplish? Not only is it empty symbolism without substance, an apology is also unneeded.

For that matter, is there really anything to apologize for? Slavery was the norm for thousands of years, including in Africa (where it still may very well be practiced today), but it was the United States and Western Civilization that put an end to it. Why should the U.S. apologize for being one of the nations to lead the way in ending slavery and for enshrining the principle of individual rights that led to its eradication? Also, it should be noted that the descendants of the slaves are far, far better off being Americans today than they would be if they had been born in Africa, including the parasites on welfare. An intellectually honest black person would thank his lucky stars that his ancestors had been enslaved and brought to the United States so that he might be born an American instead of being born into the squalor and hopelessness of Africa.

Any African "American" who feels that he has suffered an injustice as a result of slavery that occurred over 100 years ago should feel free to renounce his American citizenship and return to Africa. In fact, if a charitable organization were established to help return blacks to Africa in exchange for a renunciation of citizenship, I bet it would receive a large amount of donations. Call it the "Back to Africa Society" or some such.

You are deluded if you think America was one of the nations to lead the way. It was one of the LAST in the new world to abolish slavery, if not the last. All the European nations had already abolished slavery.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm all in favor of reparations for slavery. I think we should pay everyone who was brought to this country as a slave, or born into slavery $10000. BUT, only to that person, not to any ancestors. After all, if they themselves weren't slaves, we don't owe them anything.

agreed!!!

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper


For that matter, is there really anything to apologize for? Slavery was the norm for thousands of years, including in Africa (where it still may very well be practiced today), but it was the United States and Western Civilization that put an end to it.

This is called bandwagoning: rationalizing something based upon the fact that other people are doing it. It is considered a logical fallacy.

Also, it should be noted that the descendants of the slaves are far, far better off being Americans today than they would be if they had been born in Africa, including the parasites on welfare. An intellectually honest black person would thank his lucky stars that his ancestors had been enslaved and brought to the United States so that he might be born an American instead of being born into the squalor and hopelessness of Africa.

It is a commonly held idea that African nations that are in a bad state currently(i.e. Africa is not just one big country and not every nation is in a bad state) have European interference to thank. In other words, had we not taken slaves from Africa and had we not colonized Africa, there wouldn't be nearly as much problems there as there are now.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm all in favor of reparations for slavery. I think we should pay everyone who was brought to this country as a slave, or born into slavery $10000. BUT, only to that person, not to any ancestors. After all, if they themselves weren't slaves, we don't owe them anything.

agreed!!!

The idea that the ancestors of black slaves in America should be given money is ridiculous as well as insulting. What figure of money could you possibly give? So, you have a right to make jokes about the idea of financial reparations b/c the concept is absurd. This does not mean that reparations can not come in other forms.

But, when the truth is told, what it comes down to is that people do not want to have money taken out of their pockets to help address an issue that could help to make the US a better place (excluding the bigots). This is why people who are against reparations tend to focus on paying out sums of money b/c the idea is absurd.

 

[cubeless]

edited comment out after being pm'd by a person that i wouldn't have expected to be concerned with my welfare that it might be considered racist... i personally think it was more just biting sarcasm, but i'll defer to him on this since although i don't agree with him much i respect his thinking (some times ;p)...

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

That's just lovely. Maybe these overpaid aristocrats should stop wasting our time and address real issues--like the national debt, the trade deficit, illegal immigration, foreign work visas, health care, unemployment and underemployment, and the overall state of the nation's economy instead of wasting time with this touchy-feely bullcrap.

Apologizing for systematic disenfranchisement and decades of treating an entire race like they are a lesser race is touchy-feely?

Yes, it is. What exactly will the apology accomplish? Not only is it empty symbolism without substance, an apology is also unneeded.

For that matter, is there really anything to apologize for? Slavery was the norm for thousands of years, including in Africa (where it still may very well be practiced today), but it was the United States and Western Civilization that put an end to it. Why should the U.S. apologize for being one of the nations to lead the way in ending slavery and for enshrining the principle of individual rights that led to its eradication? Also, it should be noted that the descendants of the slaves are far, far better off being Americans today than they would be if they had been born in Africa, including the parasites on welfare. An intellectually honest black person would thank his lucky stars that his ancestors had been enslaved and brought to the United States so that he might be born an American instead of being born into the squalor and hopelessness of Africa.

Any African "American" who feels that he has suffered an injustice as a result of slavery that occurred over 100 years ago should feel free to renounce his American citizenship and return to Africa. In fact, if a charitable organization were established to help return blacks to Africa in exchange for a renunciation of citizenship, I bet it would receive a large amount of donations. Call it the "Back to Africa Society" or some such.

Fuck you, dont even say dumb shit like this if you have no idea what you are speaking of regarding and the history and practices of an entire continent. You cannot take away slavery and KEEP colonialism. They are hand in hand. Who are you to tell Black People that and apology wouldn't mean anything to THEM? In the case of South Africa - simple apologies go VERY FAR. Truth and Reconciliation was not about giving money to black people nor arresting white people. It was about TRUTH and APOLOGIES. In some cases South Africa has better race relations than the U.S.! Who are you to say these things aren't needed when you are not even on the receiving end. Trust me, intellectually conscious black people don't count their lucky stars, they realize that Africans just have it worse than U.S Blacks - all rooted of course on actions by uncivilized white folks.

 

[herm0016]

so the white people are the cause of every problem the colored community has? and i do not say African, because lots of the people that are black are not from Africa, some are even offended to be lumped into the same group and I can see why. The only way this country will ever get anywhere is if the African American community stops blaming white people for all there problems.

this is like saying all the jews should get an apology from every christian. Race relations in South Africa are so great that the different groups of black people are now killing each other. sounds like they are in good shape to me!!

 

[Throckmorton]

Uhh considering slavery still existed until WWII, when the government finally decided to end its no-investigate policy, for fear of Japanese propaganda, I'd say there are plenty of survivors from the time of slavery who deserve an apology.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/145762