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hospital bill rant

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Ronstang said:
The outrage should not be who is going to pay the bill but why such a little amount of work costs so fucking much. This IS what is wrong with the health care system in the US. The government and insurance companies have royally screwed it up.
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2300 is cheap for all of that. I went to the ER once had to wait 6 hours to see a nurse. I saw the nurse for like 30 minutes. My insurance had to pay $3500 for that 30 minutes. So 2300 for all they did seems cheap. The donation place better pay for it.
 
TheVrolok said:
I provided my anecdote, you've provided yours. I don't know anything about his situation aside from what you've said, but I too know epileptics who have their medical needs paid for privately, by their employers, etc. and some of them are blue collar. Perhaps he needs to get more information from a social worker/case manager? There are always going to be problems, the system absolutely needs to be reformed.
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Believe me, I'm sure he's tried every option available to him. Right now he would just be happy if he can keep his job. His last seizure cost him his driver's license. It won't matter if he can't find a ride to work because then he will be unemployed and qualify for government assistance.

It pays right now to not try and be productive in his case. Being unemployed and on disability would have him covered. But trying to work and go to college to better himself just ends the same every time. The system rewards those who don't try. He could get insurance with his employer, but then he would have to get a second job to handle the costs and drop out of college.
 
sourceninja said:
Believe me, I'm sure he's tried every option available to him. Right now he would just be happy if he can keep his job. His last seizure cost him his driver's license. It won't matter if he can't find a ride to work because then he will be unemployed and qualify for government assistance.

It pays right now to not try and be productive in his case. Being unemployed and on disability would have him covered. But trying to work and go to college to better himself just ends the same every time. The system rewards those who don't try. He could get insurance with his employer, but then he would have to get a second job to handle the costs and drop out of college.
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Maybe his option now is work or go to college, rather than both? It may not be what he wants? And it may not be "fair" ? But what is?
 
TheVrolok said:
Maybe his option now is work or go to college, rather than both? It may not be what he wants? And it may not be "fair" ? But what is?
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He only has one option then. Drop out of college. He works so he can go to college. Sadly, last I spoke to him, he was thinking about doing just that.

It's not about fair. It's about giving people a chance to pursue happiness. People in his situation never even get the chance. They are shuffled off to minimum wage part time jobs for the rest of their life.
 
sourceninja said:
He only has one option then. Drop out of college. He works so he can go to college. Sadly, last I spoke to him, he was thinking about doing just that.

It's not about fair. It's about giving people a chance to pursue happiness. People in his situation never even get the chance. They are shuffled off to minimum wage part time jobs for the rest of their life.
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Why does he need to work to go to college? Student loans?
 
TheVrolok said:
Why does he need to work to go to college? Student loans?
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Student loans don't cover everything. I should know, I work in education. He still has food, rent, car payments, and all those existing medical bills.

If your time in college was 100% paid for, you were lucky. One of the hardest parts about getting though college is getting the money. I've seen tons of students drop out because their funding ran out.

The answer is not simple. The solution will require large scale social reforms and changes in thinking. It's never going to happen. In fact it's getting worse. I've heard talk that the masters degree is the new bachelor degree. Kids growing up may need 6 years of post high school education and 100k in debt just to get a job making 30k a year with maybe 70/30 healthcare.
 
sourceninja said:
Student loans don't cover everything. I should know, I work in education. He still has food, rent, car payments, and all those existing medical bills.

If your time in college was 100% paid for, you were lucky. One of the hardest parts about getting though college is getting the money. I've seen tons of students drop out because their funding ran out.

The answer is not simple. The solution will require large scale social reforms and changes in thinking. It's never going to happen. In fact it's getting worse. I've heard talk that the masters degree is the new bachelor degree. Kids growing up may need 6 years of post high school education and 100k in debt just to get a job making 30k a year with maybe 70/30 healthcare.
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Ha, now we're walking into a new discussion. How broken the educational system is as well. More social problems causing serious financial issues. Student loans covered the vast majority of my schooling and I used savings for the rest. I didn't have a car at the time. Had to work for 2 years post college just to finish paying off the loans so I could take more for graduate school. Now I'm back to being broke with a couple hundred thousand in student loan debt at some absurd interest rates.

I think you hit the nail on the head with both issues, healthcare and education' large scale social reforms and changes in thinking. The US needs to have a shift in culture or nothing is going to "fix things."
 
TheVrolok said:
Ha, now we're walking into a new discussion. How broken the educational system is as well. More social problems causing serious financial issues. Student loans covered the vast majority of my schooling and I used savings for the rest. I didn't have a car at the time. Had to work for 2 years post college just to finish paying off the loans so I could take more for graduate school. Now I'm back to being broke with a couple hundred thousand in student loan debt at some absurd interest rates.

I think you hit the nail on the head with both issues, healthcare and education' large scale social reforms and changes in thinking. The US needs to have a shift in culture or nothing is going to "fix things."
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A number of European countries offer free university education to their citizens. This I agree probably wouldn't work in the US but it's still something to work towards.
 
Public services or public goods should stay public services and public goods, they seem to be perverted when turned into private goods and services because of profit motive. Either way, public or private, they should not be excessively expensive. Although I have never agreed with inefficient and corrupt practices.
 
Locut0s said:
A number of European countries offer free university education to their citizens. This I agree probably wouldn't work in the US but it's still something to work towards.
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They are pretty selective of students, though. Unlike in the US where nearly anyone can go as long as they have cash. Like you said, I don't see it working in the US where the mentality is "I feel like going college and no one can say any different."
 
TheVrolok said:
They are pretty selective of students, though. Unlike in the US where nearly anyone can go as long as they have cash. Like you said, I don't see it working in the US where the mentality is "I feel like going college and no one can say any different."
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I really don't like the notion that in American universities, the rich people, not the most intelligent people go to the best schools
 
HAL9000 said:
I really don't like the notion that in American universities, the rich people, not the most intelligent people go to the best schools
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we have shit tons of scholarships that have, to some degree, completely disavowed this notion. The best is probably Harvard. If you can get in--you generally do not have to worry about affording it.

I find it funny that you come from one of the most stilted class-defining systems in the western world, and you criticize us for this.
 
zinfamous said:
we have shit tons of scholarships that have, to some degree, completely disavowed this notion. The best is probably Harvard. If you can get in--you generally do not have to worry about affording it.
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I didn't realise that, that's good to know.

DCal430 said:
In the U.S most of the best universities have free education to the middle and lower class.
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That's a good idea, but IMO all universities should be affordable.

My brother is going to America to do his masters in September and I could not believe how much it will cost! D:
 
HAL9000 said:
I didn't realise that, that's good to know.



That's a good idea, but IMO all universities should be affordable.

My brother is going to America to do his masters in September and I could not believe how much it will cost! D:
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If we made too affordable, then we couldn't do a system where everyone can go to college. Were you have a second chance if you fuck up in high school.
 
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HAL9000 said:
I didn't realise that, that's good to know.



That's a good idea, but IMO all universities should be affordable.

My brother is going to America to do his masters in September and I could not believe how much it will cost! D:
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it is preposterously expensive, no doubt about it. Financial Aid is generally a losing battle for many years after matriculation.

but if you can get a scholarship, you're set. Each field has a pile of specific scholarships that are excellent for students (HHMI, for example, which pays a year of tuition for any medical school that you attend). You have to work your ass off to get these, of course.


the other thing to consider is that not everyone should go to college. One of our biggest problems is that we have completely lost our skilled labor force. Partly due to cheap (and much worse) labor overseas, but also be/c of this misguided policy over the previous decades to encourage everyone to go to college. Some people simply don't realize that they don't want to be in college, or head in the route that college tends to put them until they've wasted several years, racked up debt, and haven't much to show for it.
 
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HAL9000 said:
I didn't realise that, that's good to know.



That's a good idea, but IMO all universities should be affordable.

My brother is going to America to do his masters in September and I could not believe how much it will cost! D:
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It costs a LOT more for foreign students though.
 
zinfamous said:
it is preposterously expensive, no doubt about it. Financial Aid is generally a losing battle for many years after matriculation.

but if you can get a scholarship, you're set. Each field has a pile of specific scholarships that are excellent for students (HHMI, for example, which pays a year of tuition for any medical school that you attend). You have to work your ass off to get these, of course.
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That definitely makes good sense, we have scholarship systems in the UK swell to make Uni free for students who can't afford it, but we also have very cheap (comparatively) universities.
 
Locut0s said:
Because running universities is VERY expensive. Either the money comes from tuition, gifts or taxes. If one goes down one of the other has to go up to pay for it. I'm on the side that taxes should pay for most of it.
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Exactly, that's my point taxes should pay for it, if they did there is no reason why it would effect "a system where everyone can go to college."...? 😕
 
HAL9000 said:
Why?
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In The UK if someone fucks up in the secondary education, what chance do they have of going to a great uni, very little. In the U.S they can still turn their life around. Everyone in the U.S can go to college, and if you cannot afford it, then it will be free. It just might not be the college you wanted to go to.
 
DCal430 said:
In The UK if someone fucks up in the secondary education, what chance do they have of going to a great uni, very little. In the U.S they can still turn their life around. Everyone in the U.S can go to college, and if you cannot afford it, then it will be free. It just might not be the college you wanted to go to.
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In the UK they can afford to go to any of them, they won't get accepted unless they are good enough though, which means that only the best go to the best, which is a good way of doing it. If they are capable then they certainly could go to a college, get qualified to go to Cambridge or Oxford of UCL no problem.

Uni might not be free in the UK, but you don't have to pay it back until you earn over a certain amount per year, and even then it's very cheap to pay off, some people don't ever pay their university fees off...
 
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