Hired this week as a "Sales Specialist"

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
I disagree with your 'fake degrees,' simply because, while BA may not give you technical skills, it does show that you have a work ethic and the capacity to learn a wide-variety of things. When hiring for certain positions, this is important, and will give you a leg up over a similar candidate with only work experience (this is assuming the college grad has some work experience, related or unrelated, on his/her resume).

BA's are fine - but if you get a BA in a science, the employer is going to ask you point blank why not the BS in that field? I certainly would. Getting a BA in a science is just silly.

As for Rule #4, since it was such a short duration, he can leave that experience off of his resume. Though, I do agree overall. References are very important and you shouldn't burn bridges at your places of employment.

Depending on his state. In some states it's illegal to leave ANY prior employers off the app/resume if they're within the purview of the document (typically last three employers).

Um, it is not illegal to leave information off your resume, if you so choose. Please show me anything stating that.

Originally posted by: ja1484
Depending on his state.

I'm not going to go digging through public record on stuff just to prove a point. This is hazy IIRC memory, could be wrong, but I do remember running across this type of situation somewhere, sometime.

You're really that interested, you look it up. Point being, he lost the opportunity for a good reference.

 

[Svnla]

I read the whole thread and here are my comments:

1. The OP wasn't told to do anything and everything and bend over and took it. He just had to stick it out with manual works for a month or so. Not like he had to mop the floor or cleaned the toilets.

2. Around $15/hr is not bad down south here <not sure where the OP is> for manual works in a factory plant. IIRC, GM is hiring new workers at that range. The $20 and up plus free healthcare and benefits for factory works are for old timers. It is no longer attainable.

3. I do have problems that the OP didn't get any benefits and insurances. I understand about the 60 days of probation (they could fire you for any reasons) but no health insurance at all? I do miss the free healthcare insurance at my former auto maker job.

4. OP did make $14.75/hr..not a lot of money but he could used it for bills and expenses. Now he has nothing. Like the old saying...$1 may not be much but it sure is much larger than $0.

5. I worked for UPS while studied for my BS and unloaded boxes (some of them up to 100 lbs) in 120 plus degree in the summer and they told me I could go back and work for them anytime. Now that was freaking hard manual work. I think I know a few things about hard sweaty manual work. BTW, most, if not all, UPS upper management started out from the bottom as loaders/unloaders. They promote from inside.

6. I agree with the posters that said degrees =! automatic big money. Degrees = you are trainable and you are able to learn and do things. Too many ATOTers think degrees = 100K-200K or more a year with 40 hrs workweek plus all the benefits. Sorry but this is not WoW or StarCraft, this is real life. Real money is much much harder to earn than online currency.

7. Based on the lastest US Census, the median salary for a US family, not a person, is around $50K a year. Yes, some folks will make millions and more but most don't.

 

[Firebot]

Scenario 1

OP: "Hi I am here to sell you some nuts and bolts which should be more useful for the building of this new car model you are designing."

Client: "Really? Which bolts do you suggest to use for the trunk interior?"

OP: "I got a chance to handle most of these bolts during my training. Now this bolt may be lighter, but I have seen some instances where they curb slightly under extreme pressure, a strong hit on the trunk may cause some issues. I recommend this bolt instead. It may be heavier and more expensive, but they are very secure and I have not seen any issues with the bolt while I was on the floor.


Scenario 2

OP: "Hi I am here to sell you some nuts and bolts which should be more useful for the building of this new car model you are designing."

Client: "Really? Which bolts do you suggest to use for the trunk interior?"

OP: "According to this blueprint and the company brochure, the first bolt would be my recommendation"

Client: "This bolt is cheaper, but has there been any issues with the bolt in the past, during assembly?"

OP: "I don't know, I'll have to ask the guys in the factory if they have an answer to that question, let me get back to you in a day"


Who would get the sale and makes the client more confident?

 

[5to1baby1in5]

Should have faked a back injury, and went on restricted duty (no lifting over 10 lbs).

It's the American way. :gift: :beer:

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

It seems to me that the real issue here is that the company completely failed to communicate their policies and expectations. I suspect if they would have clearly explained how they do things early in the hiring process it would not be a problem. Instead the screwed it up.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: hungfarover
God you guys couldn't be more soft. If he's going to be selling nuts and bolts, he better have a god damn good understand of wtf they do, and not only that, know the difference between materials, processing, etc etc. He's going to need to know his nuts. And it's not like they put an MBA on the floor for 5 weeks. No offense, but this guy has his 4-year. He needs to pay his dues.

I had a similar experience. My first job after graduating with a Business and Econ double major was manager in an up and coming healthy foods restaurant. Thing was, they not only didn't start me on the floor, they put me as a line cook. Look I'm not saying it was fun, but you need to know the product.

After several months I quit, but it's because I started working in IT. I didn't want to smell like onions anymore. I love technology. I hate onions.

So you worked a crap job for substandard pay while gaining no usable experience for several months... and it was a good thing? Did it build character or something?

Yep.

Unlike most of ATOT who land six-figure incomes right out of undergrad with sociology degrees, in the real world most people will have to pay their dues in order to get to where they want to go. That means working crap jobs to pay the bills and/or hoping for the half-chance that that particular job could turn into something much better within that company.

How delusional can you be about the value of a 4-year?

Another thing: chances are you're going to switch careers at least once before you find what you love doing.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: ja1484
I'm not going to go digging through public record on stuff just to prove a point. This is hazy IIRC memory, could be wrong, but I do remember running across this type of situation somewhere, sometime.

You're really that interested, you look it up. Point being, he lost the opportunity for a good reference.

I work as a recruiter, and deal with resumes daily, never once coming across an article, paper, or law stating that it is illegal to leave something off of your resume. You were the one asserting it as fact, so you prove it.

By the way, don't state things as fact when you are basing it off of a 'hazy IIRC memory.' That just leads to misinformation being propagated.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: ballmode
Keep in mind, I was a temp. No commission. Even after getting hired.

You were hired through a temp agency or you were on temporary employment status under the auspices of the bolt/nut company? There's a huge difference.

I don't know of any company that doesn't have a probationary period for new hires. After the probationary period you're elligible for the big-boy bennies and such.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: ja1484
I'm not going to go digging through public record on stuff just to prove a point. This is hazy IIRC memory, could be wrong, but I do remember running across this type of situation somewhere, sometime.

You're really that interested, you look it up. Point being, he lost the opportunity for a good reference.

I work as a recruiter, and deal with resumes daily, never once coming across an article, paper, or law stating that it is illegal to leave something off of your resume. You were the one asserting it as fact, so you prove it.

By the way, don't state things as fact when you are basing it off of a 'hazy IIRC memory.' That just leads to misinformation being propagated.

I am making the claim, but you're the person who gives a shit, so no, you do the footwork. I'll be the first to raise my glass to you if you prove me wrong, but I don't care enough back the statement up one way or t'other.

And I'll state whatever I want, misinformation or not, thank you very much

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
I disagree with your 'fake degrees,' simply because, while BA may not give you technical skills, it does show that you have a work ethic and the capacity to learn a wide-variety of things. When hiring for certain positions, this is important, and will give you a leg up over a similar candidate with only work experience (this is assuming the college grad has some work experience, related or unrelated, on his/her resume).

BA's are fine - but if you get a BA in a science, the employer is going to ask you point blank why not the BS in that field? I certainly would. Getting a BA in a science is just silly.

As for Rule #4, since it was such a short duration, he can leave that experience off of his resume. Though, I do agree overall. References are very important and you shouldn't burn bridges at your places of employment.

Depending on his state. In some states it's illegal to leave ANY prior employers off the app/resume if they're within the purview of the document (typically last three employers).

I thought a BA was the same as a BS, its just Bachelors in Art instead of Science or whatever? An AA or AS is the 2 year degree, right?

BS typically has a different course of study with more difficult subjects, hence the distinction.

So you can get a BS in English?

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
I disagree with your 'fake degrees,' simply because, while BA may not give you technical skills, it does show that you have a work ethic and the capacity to learn a wide-variety of things. When hiring for certain positions, this is important, and will give you a leg up over a similar candidate with only work experience (this is assuming the college grad has some work experience, related or unrelated, on his/her resume).

BA's are fine - but if you get a BA in a science, the employer is going to ask you point blank why not the BS in that field? I certainly would. Getting a BA in a science is just silly.

As for Rule #4, since it was such a short duration, he can leave that experience off of his resume. Though, I do agree overall. References are very important and you shouldn't burn bridges at your places of employment.

Depending on his state. In some states it's illegal to leave ANY prior employers off the app/resume if they're within the purview of the document (typically last three employers).

I thought a BA was the same as a BS, its just Bachelors in Art instead of Science or whatever? An AA or AS is the 2 year degree, right?

BS typically has a different course of study with more difficult subjects, hence the distinction.

So you can get a BS in English?

Not to my knowledge, but then I see pretty much any degree in english as a major waste of time and money, so I can't say I've looked into it in depth.

 

[StormRider]

This isn't meant as a criticism about your decision to quit but this is an example of why I don't agree with people who say "illegal" immigrants are taking away jobs from us citizens. Most of us don't like to do back breaking or boring work that many "illegal" would be grateful doing. Heck, I hated and started to resent having to help out in my parent's restaurant for over 15 years. And I can understand why some employers actually prefer hiring "illegal" immigrants -- because they tend to not quit after a few days and they probably do a better job because they are more grateful about having any kind of work.

 

[judasmachine]

Maybe it would have given you a little sympathy for those who do the back breaking work every day. Five weeks is hardly the rest of your life.

 

[DBL]

IMO, you did the right thing.

Did they provide you with a job description? What if you had problems with heavy lifting? Did they provide any required safety education when working on a factory floor?

It seems to me that policies such as these open a company up to a whole host of legal issues. They would be well-served explaining exactly what is expected of new hires before they accept the job. This is not a company you want to work for.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
I disagree with your 'fake degrees,' simply because, while BA may not give you technical skills, it does show that you have a work ethic and the capacity to learn a wide-variety of things. When hiring for certain positions, this is important, and will give you a leg up over a similar candidate with only work experience (this is assuming the college grad has some work experience, related or unrelated, on his/her resume).

BA's are fine - but if you get a BA in a science, the employer is going to ask you point blank why not the BS in that field? I certainly would. Getting a BA in a science is just silly.

As for Rule #4, since it was such a short duration, he can leave that experience off of his resume. Though, I do agree overall. References are very important and you shouldn't burn bridges at your places of employment.

Depending on his state. In some states it's illegal to leave ANY prior employers off the app/resume if they're within the purview of the document (typically last three employers).

I thought a BA was the same as a BS, its just Bachelors in Art instead of Science or whatever? An AA or AS is the 2 year degree, right?

BS typically has a different course of study with more difficult subjects, hence the distinction.

So you can get a BS in English?

Yes, you can. My mother received her BS in English in 1979 from Lambuth University.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: ja1484
I am making the claim, but you're the person who gives a shit, so no, you do the footwork. I'll be the first to raise my glass to you if you prove me wrong, but I don't care enough back the statement up one way or t'other.

And I'll state whatever I want, misinformation or not, thank you very much

You can't prove a negative; however, you can prove a positive. Seriously, you're a doctoral candidate?

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Maybe it would have given you a little sympathy for those who do the back breaking work every day. Five weeks is hardly the rest of your life.

:thumbsup:

 

[slayer202]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
the only part that sounds wierd is the other people didn't have to do it

some places like everyone to know all the jobs, that is ok by me

but it doesn't make sense that the other sales people didn't do it when they were trained

sounds right to me

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: ja1484
I am making the claim, but you're the person who gives a shit, so no, you do the footwork. I'll be the first to raise my glass to you if you prove me wrong, but I don't care enough back the statement up one way or t'other.

And I'll state whatever I want, misinformation or not, thank you very much

You can't prove a negative; however, you can prove a positive. Seriously, you're a doctoral candidate?

THE INTERNET IS CEREAL BIDNESS! For the record, I'm not asking you to prove your negative - I'm saying you can prove my positive for me (or attest to the lack of evidence), if you like. I'm simply too lazy to give a damn in either direction. Besides that...

You're still not getting the point. I'm not out here to prove anything. You're acting like casual conversation on the internet is to be taken seriously. THAT I find a little worrisome.

Look, you may be perfectly right, and there's nothing illegal about it. This is hearsay stuff from I forget where long ago. I never represented it as anything else. Anyone's welcome to investigate more if they think it matters, which it doesn't. If you care, do whatever you have to do to put your little mind at ease. Frankly, you should have bigger fish to fry.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: ja1484

So you can get a BS in English?

Not to my knowledge, but then I see pretty much any degree in english as a major waste of time and money, so I can't say I've looked into it in depth.[/quote]

everyone says that but no one seems to say why.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: pontifex

So you can get a BS in English?

Not to my knowledge, but then I see pretty much any degree in english as a major waste of time and money, so I can't say I've looked into it in depth.

everyone says that but no one seems to say why.

Well, firstly, it lets people in the sciences act all smug around liberal arts majors, which is most important.

Secondly, I find getting a degree in a nebulous liberal arts area a questionable use of the time. Seems to me things would be a bit easier to manage in the black/white(er) technical fields.

Third, stereotypical (and possibly unfounded) malarky about poor job growth in those fields, etc.


Here's your BS primer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Science

 

[torpid]

At my university, the only difference between a BA and BS in Comp Sci was a couple of general science courses (chemistry and physics intro classes) versus a couple of literature type courses. I opted for the BA because I never much cared for physics or chemistry and wanted to take courses on russian literature. There would have been zero difference in terms of Comp Sci courses.

 

[imported_Imp]

I would have stayed. It's been said, work the line, learn the system to heart, sell it better. Seeing as it's a Japanese company, the 'work the floor' idea sounds very Japanese.

You can probably blame them for not telling you how you would start, but they can blame you for not asking.

Also, OP sounds like someone I know. This person also quit a suckass, grocery store job knowing full-well what the work entailed cause he felt he was too good for it (lasted 6 whole days of 4 hour shifts). This same person has never held a job aside from the aforementioned cause of the "I went to college 4 years, I shouldn't have to do grunt work, grunt work's for losers and dropouts".

Me, I've been working suckass jobs for 5 years. I've had to do lifting and physical labour when my job description mentioned none of it nor even implied anything other than 8 hours infront of a phone or computer. I don't feel entitled to anything fresh out of school; there's 50 000 other people at my college who will have a degree within 4 years like me, whoop-di-do.

 

[NinjaGnome]

evryone I know with marketing degrees have a very hard time finding a job that pays anymore than the job you were at in the beginning. I have a buddy with your degree who works in insurance and he is finally starting to make a decent amount of money (around 45k). Just find something that you can be happy with and not worry about the pay. With my teaching degree I know exactly what im getting into, low pay, long hours during the school year, low pay, nice vacation time, good job security unless im useless.

 

[uli2000]

Personally, I think you think you are better than you really are. Maybe the company wanted you to learn everything about the buisness. The Japanese promote from within, but want their managers to know everything about their employees and what they do. I think you just proved you are the stereotypical lazy American. One of the greatest men Ive ever had the pleasure to know personally was K. Rex Whitmore, Pres. and CEO of Kodak in the late 80's and early 90's. He talked about how he started out there in the 50's as a chemical engineer and thru hard work moved up the ranks to eventually run the company. He taught me that no job is beneath you. Needless to say, Ive done some shit I would have never thought I would do, but I learned something from each menial tast which has made me a better manager and employee.