Hired this week as a "Sales Specialist"

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
I disagree with your 'fake degrees,' simply because, while BA may not give you technical skills, it does show that you have a work ethic and the capacity to learn a wide-variety of things. When hiring for certain positions, this is important, and will give you a leg up over a similar candidate with only work experience (this is assuming the college grad has some work experience, related or unrelated, on his/her resume).

BA's are fine - but if you get a BA in a science, the employer is going to ask you point blank why not the BS in that field? I certainly would. Getting a BA in a science is just silly.

As for Rule #4, since it was such a short duration, he can leave that experience off of his resume. Though, I do agree overall. References are very important and you shouldn't burn bridges at your places of employment.

Depending on his state. In some states it's illegal to leave ANY prior employers off the app/resume if they're within the purview of the document (typically last three employers).

I thought a BA was the same as a BS, its just Bachelors in Art instead of Science or whatever? An AA or AS is the 2 year degree, right?

 

[kevinthenerd]

<-- BSME, Mechanical Engineering, UCF, Dec. '07

YES.

I have a job as a dish washer at a restaurant right now. I get $8/hr. This job isn't beneath me because I'm still a human. I'm no better than the dishwashers I work with. It's not what I want to be doing right now, but I still have bills. I'm still searching, but I'm not going to let the pain of this job get me down. I come home with waterlogged fingers, full of cuts and such, but I'm doing my best to treat it as Zen practice.

I think there might have been some kind of miscommunication about what was going on. I would have talked with them before quitting. "Why am I doing this back-breaking labor?" You had nothing to lose at that point. Quitting screwed up your job history and probably put you back on the labor market with bills still to pay.

Degrees in business are a dime a dozen these days. It's good to be picky, but try not to be a snob. It's not like we have a Ph.D.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: ja1484
In some states it's illegal to leave ANY prior employers off the app/resume if they're within the purview of the document (typically last three employers).

I seriously doubt it is "illegal".

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I always thought that was fairly common with the big Japanese companies. You train on the factory floor to get a better understanding of the business, the products, and how they're used.

It's probably a good idea too to have empathy toward the underdogs. I see too many managers with no concept of what it means to WORK, and their attitude toward those who do sinks the ship.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
5 weeks seems a bit much. Maybe 1 week would be okay - 1 day at each of the positions. That doesn't really sound like sales training, though. I don't see how lifting the nuts/bolts makes you a better salesman.

Some people spend their whole lives doing that crap. Harsh much?

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: ja1484


And a lot of jobs don't. I don't see the massive cost-barrier that a lot of folks do in education. State schools are still, generally speaking, pretty cheap.

This really depends on the degree you're getting. I went to a state school in the midwest and it wasn't that cheap. I knew many people who left with 40-50k in debt with degrees in Pol S or English. Many became teachers or took some "menial" job. I have a friend with a degree in Pol S that works retail at the mall. While she doesn't have 40k in loan debt, she does have debt. The question becomes, is her debt load worth the position she received? Of course, that's a question that pertains to her own values. Maybe money isn't a big deal to her and she really likes her job. I don't know. At some point, these degrees, even at state schools, aren't worth the salary you'll receive afterwards.

This affects, to a lesser extent, technical degrees as well. My gf is about to receive her degree in Chemical Engineering and has little debt, so for her it was clearly worth it. My parents didn't pay any of my tuition and my BS is in Microbiology so I clearly have debt. The first offer I received relating to Micro after graduation only paid about 24k/yr. Luckily, I took a diversified class load and took lots of programming and IT-related classes. That got me a far better paying IT job and entry into an IT-related Master's program, but had I not I would be in a world of hurt. The original offer wouldn't have been enough for me to afford rent, food, and student loan repayments. Or if I could afford all those things, if anything had happened (mechanical issue with the car, medical emergency), I would've been screwed. For me, the IT classes I took were worth it but my Micro degree was not.

As more simple jobs *require* people to have college degrees, we need to make sure those degrees are affordable to everyone lest we make everyone a slave to debt at young ages.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
<-- BSME, Mechanical Engineering, UCF, Dec. '07

YES.

I have a job as a dish washer at a restaurant right now. I get $8/hr. This job isn't beneath me because I'm still a human. I'm no better than the dishwashers I work with. It's not what I want to be doing right now, but I still have bills. I'm still searching, but I'm not going to let the pain of this job get me down. I come home with waterlogged fingers, full of cuts and such, but I'm doing my best to treat it as Zen practice.

I think there might have been some kind of miscommunication about what was going on. I would have talked with them before quitting. "Why am I doing this back-breaking labor?" You had nothing to lose at that point. Quitting screwed up your job history and probably put you back on the labor market with bills still to pay.

Degrees in business are a dime a dozen these days. It's good to be picky, but try not to be a snob. It's not like we have a Ph.D.

You're doing whatever you need to do to survive and pay the bills. I worked two jobs for 5 years when I was a baby IT Monkey and making 1/2 what I make now. And that other job was outdoor physical labor. Job #1 was not paying the bills. Not even close. I did what I had to do to pay the rent...literally.

The OP is not in such a position (AFAIK). If he can still live at home for free, why not try for better? I'm sure he's HAD jobs thru HS and college. I'm sure it was flipping burgers or somethign like that. We've ALL done those jobs.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
I disagree with your 'fake degrees,' simply because, while BA may not give you technical skills, it does show that you have a work ethic and the capacity to learn a wide-variety of things. When hiring for certain positions, this is important, and will give you a leg up over a similar candidate with only work experience (this is assuming the college grad has some work experience, related or unrelated, on his/her resume).

BA's are fine - but if you get a BA in a science, the employer is going to ask you point blank why not the BS in that field? I certainly would. Getting a BA in a science is just silly.

As for Rule #4, since it was such a short duration, he can leave that experience off of his resume. Though, I do agree overall. References are very important and you shouldn't burn bridges at your places of employment.

Depending on his state. In some states it's illegal to leave ANY prior employers off the app/resume if they're within the purview of the document (typically last three employers).

I thought a BA was the same as a BS, its just Bachelors in Art instead of Science or whatever? An AA or AS is the 2 year degree, right?

BS typically has a different course of study with more difficult subjects, hence the distinction.

 

[waggy]

personally i think it was pretty dumb.

more and more companies are having sales, managment work on the floor to get a better idea of the product.

to quite over this was silly. i doubt very much you are going to find another job in 5 weeks (though possible). so now you have no paycheck, no job and no idea what is in store for you (odds are the next company will do the same damn thing).


only good part is the company does not have or want you.

 

[spidey07]

OP - I see this a a huge blown opportunity. As others have already pointed out this kind of training is necessary for anybody in sales. You HAVE to know the product.

Also, the auto industry is a GOLDMINE for salesmen. If you stayed for a few years and got good at it, built your list of contacts/network and made your numbers you could have been looking at 250K a year OR MORE. There's a ton of money in sales, specifically the auto industry because the numbers (volume and cost) are so big and your commission check will be huge.

So maybe this will be a lesson and you won't make the same mistake the next time a great opportunity comes your way.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: kranky

Originally posted by: ja1484
In some states it's illegal to leave ANY prior employers off the app/resume if they're within the purview of the document (typically last three employers).

I seriously doubt it is "illegal".

<--- not a lawyer, but their have been fraud cases over it, few and far between. In much more likelihood, if the employer is irate about not having been told of the situation, they'll probably just cut their ties with you.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Sluggo

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
The better you know the product, the better salesman you are able to be. I really don't see the problem. You were being paid to learn your product.

Yeah but... nuts and bolts? that doesn't exactly make your head spin

Actually...http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/.../Nuts&Bolts_signed.pdf

You should pick up Mechanical Engineering Design by Shigley. Chapter 8 is about fasteners. Yes, it's a whole chapter, and most of it is on screws.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: ja1484


And a lot of jobs don't. I don't see the massive cost-barrier that a lot of folks do in education. State schools are still, generally speaking, pretty cheap.

This really depends on the degree you're getting. I went to a state school in the midwest and it wasn't that cheap. I knew many people who left with 40-50k in debt with degrees in Pol S or English. Many became teachers or took some "menial" job. I have a friend with a degree in Pol S that works retail at the mall. While she doesn't have 40k in loan debt, she does have debt. The question becomes, is her debt load worth the position she received? Of course, that's a question that pertains to her own values. Maybe money isn't a big deal to her and she really likes her job. I don't know. At some point, these degrees, even at state schools, aren't worth the salary you'll receive afterwards.

This affects, to a lesser extent, technical degrees as well. My gf is about to receive her degree in Chemical Engineering and has little debt, so for her it was clearly worth it. My parents didn't pay any of my tuition and my BS is in Microbiology so I clearly have debt. The first offer I received relating to Micro after graduation only paid about 24k/yr. Luckily, I took a diversified class load and took lots of programming and IT-related classes. That got me a far better paying IT job and entry into an IT-related Master's program, but had I not I would be in a world of hurt. The original offer wouldn't have been enough for me to afford rent, food, and student loan repayments. Or if I could afford all those things, if anything had happened (mechanical issue with the car, medical emergency), I would've been screwed. For me, the IT classes I took were worth it but my Micro degree was not.

As more simple jobs *require* people to have college degrees, we need to make sure those degrees are affordable to everyone lest we make everyone a slave to debt at young ages.

Your second point is roughly the same as the one I'd've brought up. I have a buddy who went to NC State, got his Chemistry degree in 4 years for 20-25k, and is looking at offers in the low 60s off the bat. Very managable.

As for your first example of the Poly Sci retail peon: Well, what do I say? People have been deciding to major in Literature and work at StarBucks for eons. I guess the lesson she paid 40k to learn was "Don't get a degree in PolSci and then live where I live."

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
They probably make people work the line to weed out the jerks with the "holier than thou" attitudes.
You know, the type of people who feel that they are better than everybody else... The morons who say "I'm too good for this crap" ....

They don't want those people, as they are generally worthless.

QFT!

 

[Svnla]

OP, I finished my bachelor and then my MBA and worked for the largest auto maker in the world for almost 10 years.

Let see, I drove forklift, drove van to transport people, moved boxes of parts around, moved boxes of supplies around the whole plant, counted parts, supplied parts to the line, worked on the line when we were short of poeple and on and on.....ie... I did anything and everything to make the problems went away.

You worked there less than a week and you thought "I didn't go to college for this"? LOL...you have a lot to learn in real life if you want to move up in the corporate ladder.

<<------strongly believe in as long as the work requests are legal and ethical, just do it.

 

[Turin39789]

bad decision

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
I disagree with your 'fake degrees,' simply because, while BA may not give you technical skills, it does show that you have a work ethic and the capacity to learn a wide-variety of things. When hiring for certain positions, this is important, and will give you a leg up over a similar candidate with only work experience (this is assuming the college grad has some work experience, related or unrelated, on his/her resume).

BA's are fine - but if you get a BA in a science, the employer is going to ask you point blank why not the BS in that field? I certainly would. Getting a BA in a science is just silly.

As for Rule #4, since it was such a short duration, he can leave that experience off of his resume. Though, I do agree overall. References are very important and you shouldn't burn bridges at your places of employment.

Depending on his state. In some states it's illegal to leave ANY prior employers off the app/resume if they're within the purview of the document (typically last three employers).

Um, it is not illegal to leave information off your resume, if you so choose. Please show me anything stating that.

 

[Robert Munch]

Originally posted by: BigDH01
I think it would've been good for you to work the line for awhile. I worked on a line while in college, and it sucked (Frito Lay), but it certainly made me appreciate school and the opportunities it afforded.

However, I think five weeks is a little excessive. I could see two or maybe three but five makes it seem like they really just needed extra help on the line. It was also dishonest of them to not mention it to you before you started. I would say you should've stuck with it if it was just for a couple of weeks but at five you may have gotten stuck on the line for a longer term. You probably should've kept it while you were looking for something else though.

I worked at frito-lay back in 99-2000 before it became a "factory" type job and it still sucked

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Svnla
OP, I finished my bachelor and then my MBA and worked for the largest auto maker in the world for almost 10 years.

Let see, I drove forklift, drove van to transport people, moved boxes of parts around, moved boxes of supplies around the whole plant, counted parts, supplied parts to the line, worked on the line when we were short of poeple and on and on.....ie... I did anything and everything to make the problems went away.

You worked there less than a week and you thought "I didn't go to college for this"? LOL...you have a lot to learn in real life if you want to move up in the corporate ladder.

<<------strongly believe in as long as the work requests are legal and ethical, just do it.

GM?

 

[thereaderrabbit]

It sounds like they were trying to turn you into the person they needed for their job.

As someone who has a highly technical background, I can attest to how useless most Sales Specialists really are. And your background doesn't scream out technical ability or experience either.

So what they were trying to do is give you some hands on experience with the products you were going to move and you quit. The type of training they were providing is invaluable. After talking to sales reps for less than a minute, I can tell which ones know their shit and which ones are just trying to get by. They tired to make you useful and a little back breaking work proved too much.

I've earned a Ph.D. in my time, but I've found that when someone is paying your bills, few jobs are beneath you. When there is a problem on the manufacturing line I have to out there and learn everyones job so that I can know what exactly goes on there. When a jar of chemicals gets broken on my lab floor I mop it up (cause I want it done right). If my boss told me that I needed to learn French I'd get started this week.

The biggest mistake you can make in the corporate or academic world is thinking that things which could provide you with learning experiences and/or get the job done right are somehow beneath you.

-Reader

 

[ballmode]

Keep in mind, I was a temp. No commission. Even after getting hired.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Soundmanred

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus

Originally posted by: loki8481
yeah.

what possible good could come from knowing the ins and outs of one of the most important parts of the company?

one of my friends from high school is making pretty close to 3 figures in a white collar position at enterprise rent-a-car. he spent his first 2 weeks after getting hired as an accountant washing cars.

Is that like $90 or $95?

I think he means he was paid in action figures. Almost three a week. Almost.

We were talking hourly, not daily pay.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Sounds like you didn't give a crap to really learn the job and the different positions within the company. A lot of training programs throw you in diff depts and functional areas so you really get a good grasp of what it's like in those other areas, so you can appreciate and be a better employee in general. You fail at life.

 

[thereaderrabbit]

Originally posted by: ballmode
Keep in mind, I was a temp. No commission. Even after getting hired.

Experience is experience, not matter if it was obtained from temp., full time, or volunteer work. Even if it didn't work into a full time employment it would be good for stories (stories that show how you're not afraid to get your hands dirty and dig into what you are selling).

-Reader

 

[Finalnight]

14.75 for factory work or sales work with a Bachelors degree isn't that good. Made more in retail with just an associates.

This reminds me of my time in retail. I would see workers get hired as technicians and get thrown on the sales floor because a department was short a salesman. First it would be a for a few days which would stretch into a week, then a month, etc. I was fine with like a week or two to get to know the sales process of the pc's they would be working on and the products we sold, but beyond that, its deceptive. If you are hiring a salesman, tell the person that, don't bait and switch.

Never imagined this happened in more professional environments. I am all for getting to know the product and line level work, but 5 weeks is quite excessive. I would be fine with a week or so. They should have told him, hey, we got a spot on the line and can work you into sales in a month or so.

EDIT: I wouldn't have quit after 3 days though, would have given them a chance for the 5 weeks. Then if I didn't go sales I would quit and look a lot better because you could tell any future employers: got hired in sales, was kept on the floor for "training", after multiple false promises, I left.