Hillary the Neocon. How is the Left going to package and sell her?

[squarecut1]

Even the dog looks old.

But he is the most decent creature out of the three in the picture.

 

[Thebobo]

Would love to see him put his hat in the ring. God, I sure hope he doesn't commit the sin of being over exhuburent in exclaiming his victories again. I mean that's a definate gauge of how someone is going to perform in office.

Lol never understood why that was his downfall. So what he yelled his voice cracked.

 

[IGBT]

you really want Monica Lewinsky's boyfriends wife in a position of responsibility?? The epitome of denial?? Completely void of any leadership skills. Can the liberal Praetorian Guard.. willing accomplices in the media count on the low information voters to really buy this load of dung??

 

[squarecut1]

Are you really so naive to believe that the quest for power doesn't drive just about anyone who runs for office?!? Not sure why you are singling out the Clintons here.

The Clintons love of wealth and power, the level of entitlement and narcissism is in a different league.

 

[hal2kilo]

you really want Monica Lewinsky's boyfriends wife in a position of responsibility?? The epitome of denial?? Completely void of any leadership skills. Can the liberal Praetorian Guard.. willing accomplices in the media count on the low information voters to really buy this load of dung??

Squeezme, baking powder?

 

[Jaskalas]

Would love to see him put his hat in the ring. God, I sure hope he doesn't commit the sin of being over exhuburent in exclaiming his victories again. I mean that's a definate gauge of how someone is going to perform in office.

Been a decade since that performance. No way he'd hit those high notes again.

 

[squarecut1]

Here is the Daily Show piece on Hillary vs Jeb matchup

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/daily-show-breaks-down-hillary-v-jeb-bush-the-coke-and-pepsi-of-politics/

 

[Jaskalas]

Here is the Daily Show piece on Hillary vs Jeb matchup

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/daily-show-breaks-down-hillary-v-jeb-bush-the-coke-and-pepsi-of-politics/

In other words, politics has met fantasy football and dreams of dynasties.

 

[IGBT]

the liberals will promote her in a "buyers remorse" campaign.

 

[marincounty]

Hillary is a neocon? I reject the premise of the OP. Get your stories straight, is she an evil liberal or an evil neocon? It's hard to keep up with right wing rhetoric.
Obama was a socialist Kenyan before he was a dictator?
Give me some evidence that Hillary is a neocon, I'm not buying it.

 

[Jaskalas]

Give me some evidence that Hillary is a neocon, I'm not buying it.

Hillary Clinton and congressmen alike have called on Obama to arm Syria’s rebels.

Not to mention the 2002 authorization on Iraq.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hillary Clinton and congressmen alike have called on Obama to arm Syria’s rebels.

Not to mention the 2002 authorization on Iraq.

Nice slime attack in that last sentence. Excerpts from her speech at the time-

So Mr. President, for all its appeal, a unilateral attack, while it cannot be ruled out, on the present facts is not a good option.

President Bush's speech in Cincinnati and the changes in policy that have come forth since the Administration began broaching this issue some weeks ago have made my vote easier. Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/...-oldie-Hillary-s-floor-speech-to-invade-Iraq#

Kossacks hate her as much as you do, but they were *always* opposed to the invasion.

Obviously, you must have been against it at the time, too, huh?

Go ahead, lie to me, gimme a laugh.

 

[brycejones]

The Clintons love of wealth and power, the level of entitlement and narcissism is in a different league.

Nice opinion..........

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Hillary Clinton and congressmen alike have called on Obama to arm Syria’s rebels.

Not to mention the 2002 authorization on Iraq.

The Apologist takes issue but that's a good read. She backed every reason the Bush administration gave, even bring in 9/11. Hillary, the reluctant Neocon. Her list of justifications reads like a Rumsfeld script. Sure the apologists will let her off the hook but in her 8 years of experience, whichs she herself mentions, should have taught her what bullshit smells like. Hell, she knew all about that from Arkansas politics. So it comes down to the same point I made about her Republican kindred which is that she acted criminally or was criminally stupid. I suppose it could be argued she was a trusting waif with innocent eyes who never heard of Dick Cheney. No he was a complete unknown

She's one of them.

 

[Jhhnn]

The Apologist takes issue but that's a good read. She backed every reason the Bush administration gave, even bring in 9/11. Hillary, the reluctant Neocon. Her list of justifications reads like a Rumsfeld script. Sure the apologists will let her off the hook but in her 8 years of experience, whichs she herself mentions, should have taught her what bullshit smells like. Hell, she knew all about that from Arkansas politics. So it comes down to the same point I made about her Republican kindred which is that she acted criminally or was criminally stupid. I suppose it could be argued she was a trusting waif with innocent eyes who never heard of Dick Cheney. No he was a complete unknown

She's one of them.

Heh. You were opposed to the invasion too, huh?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Heh. You were opposed to the invasion too, huh?

Iraq? Strongly. I was against the war from the beginning and it was a decidedly unpopular position to take. At the time I remember Harvey, myself and Moonbeam and there where others who were more diplomatic or restrained. I don't remember you being one of them, but I suppose it could have been. What was your position at the time? I expect there were many who were just plain cowed by the "why do you support the terrorist" crowd. Oh yeah, I didn't like that and a whole lot more.

IRRC wasn't it you who stood up for Obama after he came to office when I said he should be calling for an investigation on Iraq? Whoever it was basically made an argument that the Republicans wouldn't like it so he shouldn't take the political risk. A whole war swept under the rug. Was that you?

 

[Jhhnn]

Iraq? Strongly. I was against the war from the beginning and it was a decidedly unpopular position to take. At the time I remember Harvey, myself and Moonbeam and there where others who were more diplomatic or restrained. I don't remember you being one of them, but I suppose it could have been. What was your position at the time? I expect there were many who were just plain cowed by the "why do you support the terrorist" crowd. Oh yeah, I didn't like that and a whole lot more.

IRRC wasn't it you who stood up for Obama after he came to office when I said he should be calling for an investigation on Iraq? Whoever it was basically made an argument that the Republicans wouldn't like it so he shouldn't take the political risk. A whole war swept under the rug. Was that you?

I was opposed, quite vocally.

Investigate Iraq? To what end? The truth is obvious to anybody willing to see it. You can investigate until Hell freezes over but it won't alter that willingness.

When was the last time that America's conservatives admitted to being chumped by their leadership? When do you suppose that will ever happen?

Denial is their forte.

 

[Jaskalas]

Obviously, you must have been against it at the time, too, huh?

You know I favored it at the time. I was also eighteen. Then over the course of the next few years I got to read here on P&N how Bush's policies, one after another, betrayed every ideal I stood for. I got to learn the lesson of Iraq and how our incompetence was leading to 5,000 dead soldiers for nothing.

A fellow conservative, likely libertarian, wrote a great blog piece on how Saddam's fall created a terrorist state, and how powerless we were to stop it. Lo and behold, those words ring clearer every day with ISIS committing genocide. We did that, creating a terrorist state is what our men died for.

Now the Neocons, backed by Hillary, want to do the same thing to Syria.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Investigate Iraq? To what end? The truth is obvious to anybody willing to see it. You can investigate until Hell freezes over but it won't alter that willingness.

So you were that guy.

Why investigate? That's an astounding question. Why have trials if the truth is obvious. Why have laws and punish crime if the perpetrator is unrepentant? Why punish the guilty? Why have a trial? Why not just accuse without consequence? Why find out who was acting deliberately misleading and who was duped?

Why have an investigation? How about justice for half a million dead? How about those who thought they could act criminally or incompetently with impunity learning that's not the case? How about knowing the truth, not just assuming you know facts you and I have no access to?

Hell, you just threw all justification for the Nuremberg trials under the bus.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You know I favored it at the time. I was also eighteen. Then over the course of the next few years I got to read here on P&N how Bush's policies, one after another, betrayed every ideal I stood for. I got to learn the lesson of Iraq and how our incompetence was leading to 5,000 dead soldiers for nothing.

A fellow conservative, likely libertarian, wrote a great blog piece on how Saddam's fall created a terrorist state, and how powerless we were to stop it. Lo and behold, those words ring clearer every day with ISIS committing genocide. We did that, creating a terrorist state is what our men died for.

Now the Neocons, backed by Hillary, want to do the same thing to Syria.

To admit error and be determined to not repeat it is a laudable thing. To accuse others of heinous acts but then excuse your preferred politician for leaving what was supposedly awful unaddressed? Not so much.

 

[hal2kilo]

I was opposed, quite vocally.

Investigate Iraq? To what end? The truth is obvious to anybody willing to see it. You can investigate until Hell freezes over but it won't alter that willingness.

When was the last time that America's conservatives admitted to being chumped by their leadership? When do you suppose that will ever happen?

Denial is their forte.

Me thinking that Hillary is a died in the wool neo con is not due to right wing propaganda.

Not sure what you are going on about.

 

[Jaskalas]

The nature of Hillary's Syria comments. That we should have intervened more, backed the rebels into power. As if it was going to be all roses and sunshine after Assad fell. That they (we) would have defeated ISIS. I've tasted that hubris before.

How's Libya doing btw? After the US + Europe helped rebels change that regime.
Not so good. It appears that once you fell a state, Anarchy and Terrorism reign instead of the Dictator. Which is preferable? The lesson of Iraq holds the answer.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Here is the Daily Show piece on Hillary vs Jeb matchup

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/daily-show-breaks-down-hillary-v-jeb-bush-the-coke-and-pepsi-of-politics/

I'm sold; Lilly Van Buren 2016

I think Obama actually play Syria pretty masterfully (got what he wanted without looking weak in the process). I don't like what Hillary is saying, but what would a Bush do in that instance?

 

[Jhhnn]

So you were that guy.

Why investigate? That's an astounding question. Why have trials if the truth is obvious. Why have laws and punish crime if the perpetrator is unrepentant? Why punish the guilty? Why have a trial? Why not just accuse without consequence? Why find out who was acting deliberately misleading and who was duped?

America's right wing still believes in the righteousness of the invasion, even if they can't articulate why. To indict any of the parties directly involved would be to indict themselves, and they're having none of it.

Why have an investigation? How about justice for half a million dead? How about those who thought they could act criminally or incompetently with impunity learning that's not the case? How about knowing the truth, not just assuming you know facts you and I have no access to?

Hell, you just threw all justification for the Nuremberg trials under the bus.

What sort of truth do you think would be revealed, other than the same sort of pointless minutiae all conspiracy theorists thrive on?

GWB said "Find me a way." 9/11 was the way, with waves of fear mongering, paranoia & blood lust very artfully orchestrated from the Oval Office. The words & deeds of the principals are well documented.

Nuremberg? Puh-leeze. When and if the military might of the US lies in rubble we might see something like that, not until. It's not like Germany brought their Nazi perps to Justice, at all.

Reality. Reference it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

America's right wing still believes in the righteousness of the invasion, even if they can't articulate why. To indict any of the parties directly involved would be to indict themselves, and they're having none of it.

Some have learned and some have not and that's not the point. They might condemn themselves by their actions, but you are most anxious to see that does not happen and it still doesn't matter. You won't have any of it.

What sort of truth do you think would be revealed, other than the same sort of pointless minutiae all conspiracy theorists thrive on?

That's just the sort of response I'd expect.. from William Kristol. What I think would be revealed is irrelevant. The goal would be to know This was a tragic war and you say

The truth is obvious to anybody willing to see it.

yet you argue against discovery of things that might be actionable. You haven't much confidence in the "obvious".

GWB said "Find me a way." 9/11 was the way, with waves of fear mongering, paranoia & blood lust very artfully orchestrated from the Oval Office. The words & deeds of the principals are well documented.

You know that might be true. Of course there's no proof of intent. And these guys were perfectly horrible humans for their actions were absolutely scrupulous in following the laws of the land. Saints that would never go to illegal means ever. Because these guys are perfectly wonderful humans. Well which is it? You don't want us to know in order to protect Obama. Nice.

Nuremberg? Puh-leeze. When and if the military might of the US lies in rubble we might see something like that, not until. It's not like Germany brought their Nazi perps to Justice, at all.

Reality. Reference it.

How long did it take to come up with a response that misses all the points leading to Nuremberg? Some time it seems. Death on a massive scale. Justice. A lesson given that being a leader or "only following orders" isn't going to give you license or immunity. That horrific offenses can lead to serious repercussions of accountability. Those were things addressed by Nuremberg. You skip all those things and place yourself square in the role of those who witnessed atrocities and then avoided acting against those who committed them. Those who still cling to their Neocon fantasies won't be persuaded they did anything wrong, and they have a staunch ally in people such as yourself. You'll make sure they have nothing to worry about.

So all this waste and death. All the fear, all the bad things you say the Republicans did. All the evil perpetrated. That means nothing to you except you get to complain about it. You'll protect them and why? Because your politician might be called bad names, like that's never happened. How cheap the lives of others are to you and they.

I just referenced the disgraceful reality of the situation.