Here's what AMD didn't want us to see - HAWX 2 benchmark

[Seero]

X-com terror from the deep! Oh yes that was a great game! I still have that too

My bad.... I wish there would be a new X-com turn based game.

You got me thinking about the oldies:
Gods, Keen6-7, GoldenAxe, battlechess, Lost Vikings, TIM, Dune2, Settlers2, Transport Tycoon Deluxe, Simcity, Theme hospital, Warcraft 2, Summer/Winter challenge games.

Lots of fun old goodies

Back then grafics where not what sold games though, it was more about finding new ways of gameing/gameplay more fun and exciteing. Today all we have is FPS/RTS more or less = sad panda.

Even our RPGs are turned into FPS but being called RPGs.

Completely off-topic, but 2k games is developing xcom as FPS game with the bioshock2 group. Before that, there was a group of fans of UFO who developed UFO:Aftermath which didn't sell well I believe.

Civ 5 is still turn based.

 

[Triggaaar]

I like looking at pretty things more than I like doing fun things

I like doing fun things with pretty things

 

[Seero]

What about Dragon Age?

Actually, the idea of DAO isn't new, X-COM: apocalypse used it many years ago. However, back then you can rotate view, and it is actually in 2D.

X-com: apocalypse is already off the orginal idea as back then when you wait while it is the enemy's turn, your screen will suddenly show how your troops got killed and immediate switch back to waiting. I still remember the fear from waiting turns. Never again I had that feeling since.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Back then grafics where not what sold games though, it was more about finding new ways of gameing/gameplay more fun and exciteing. Today all we have is FPS/RTS more or less = sad panda.

Even our RPGs are turned into FPS but being called RPGs.

I believe that is related to the target market of games and the perception people have about it.

Back in time computers were more expensive and the only people that had access to it and games (and actually produced them) were educated young adults/adults.

Computers became cheap to the point of console cheap and the target market shifted to "kids in need of entertainment and looking for the new shinning highly marketed title".

And you can see that people developing games mostly create for kids/teenagers. You really think an adult market would accept games bugged and/or the kind of anti-piracy some editors incorporate in games?

I believe that will change.

Kids will grow into parents and many of them will keep playing. Many of them are playing. Now.

I believe (and I hope it isn't an unfounded belief) that this new reality will create a demand for higher quality games. Probably we wont go back to the point finishing a game was something uncommon but maybe we will get something more than "last year game play with new clothes".

In fact that is happening now in the PC market. That is why most developers moved primarily into consoles (piracy, while real, is just an excuse).

 

[Seero]

I believe that is related to the target market of games and the perception people have about it.

Back in time computers were more expensive and the only people that had access to it and games (and actually produced them) were educated young adults/adults.

Computers became cheap to the point of console cheap and the target market shifted to "kids in need of entertainment and looking for the new shinning highly marketed title".

And you can see that people developing games mostly create for kids/teenagers. You really think an adult market would accept games bugged and/or the kind of anti-piracy some editors incorporate in games?

I believe that will change.

Kids will grow into parents and many of them will keep playing. Many of them are playing. Now.

I believe (and I hope it isn't an unfounded belief) that this new reality will create a demand for higher quality games. Probably we wont go back to the point finishing a game was something uncommon but maybe we will get something more than "last year game play with new clothes".

In fact that is happening now in the PC market. That is why most developers moved primarily into consoles (piracy, while real, is just an excuse).

Back then we don't look for high quality games, we look for games that are fun to play. Back then we expected bugs and will find ways to go around it. Back then, there are no forums to QQ and we will be laugh at if we suck at a game for whatever reasons. Back then, we have fun playing with bugs. Remember Guile's invisible throw?

Nowadays we talk about quality, graphics, gameplay, FPS, and Nvidia vs AMD.

Back then only 1 programmer is needed for a moderate game, now you need 100+ people for a moderate game. Innovations are killed by standards and workflow.

 

[Lonyo]

Thread has gone slightly cold, but I noticed in a THG article posted elsewhere something somewhat interesting.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-570-gf110-performance,2806-4.html

The NV cards are ahead of AMD even without tessellation on, so while it looks like AMD falls behind a lot because of tessellation, it doesn't, it falls behind a lot because it's slower in this game anyway. Tessellation scaling is worse and makes it fall even further behind, but when you look at the tessellation disabled graphs, it's only about 75% of the performance to begin with.

While HAWX 2 may punish the weaker tessellation scaling of AMD cards, that's not exactly the sole reason they are behind.
It might lay to rest the idea that HAWX 2 is an anomaly when it comes to tessellation, it's not, it's an anomaly when it comes to baseline performance, and the impact of tessellation isn't really much more or less than some synthetic tests like Unigine, as it's a heavy tessellation using game.

It also shows the improved scaling from the HD6870 vs HD5870 in tessellation (60% vs 51%)

 

[Arkadrel]

So its not the tessellation... its that the game isnt optimised well for amd cards in general? big surprise.... not really (its a TWIMTBP game right? sponsored by nvidia = badly coded on purpose for amd cards). Though tessellation probably still does play a small part in it, that said... both sides can get really high fps, whats the point of playing a game at 300 fps? So its not really a issue for people that want to play this game, and have amd cards.

 

[Lonbjerg]

So its not the tessellation... its that the game isnt optimised well for amd cards in general? big surprise.... not really (its a TWIMTBP game right? sponsored by nvidia = badly coded on purpose for amd cards). Though tessellation probably still does play a small part in it, that said... both sides can get really high fps, whats the point of playing a game at 300 fps? So its not really a issue for people that want to play this game, and have amd cards.

Document that claim please.
Any source code alongside better optimized code would be nice....but I doubt you will ever deliver though.

Otherwise it's just the same ignorance from you as:

- VSYNC / Power consumption.
- AMD using deliberate slow cards to fool everyone.
- Magical drivers.

What is next?
"Close" to GTX580 performance is good enough and all the performan0ce you need?

Silly season in full swing.

 

[exar333]

+1

Where are all the good RPGs that are turned based I want those back!

Planescape torment,
balders gate 1,2, xpacks.
Fallout 1 and 2 (fallout 3 is a fps wtf <.<)
Lunar 1 and 2
chrono trigger
FF 5-9
Icewind Dale I / II
..
.
.

I much rather have a fun game to play than a good looking one.
And I want turn based RPGs back... Im tired of games being called action RPGs but really their more or less FPS games <.<'

I too think alot of companys focus too much on grafics and then end up not spending enough time on the gameplay/storylines.

This. A great game is a great game to me. If it has great graphics, thats a bonus but never a deal-breaker. That's why NES or old VGA games like Space Quest/King's Quest are still good. The gameplay and story should suck you in; if they don't, the graphics will only keep your attention for so long.

A great example of an awesome game + great graphics was Far Cry. The game was crazy fun and looked amazing for the time (still looks great). On the other hand, Far Cry 2 looked amazing too, but the story and gameplay was "meh" and only held your interest for a little while.

 

[lsv]

Who cares, it's just Hawx 2.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Who cares, it's just Hawx 2.

You cared enough to post...nice own goal 😉

 

[Teizo]

not really (its a TWIMTBP game right? sponsored by nvidia = badly coded on purpose for amd cards).

Well, Crysis is a TWIMTBP game and AMD is generally ahead of Nvidia at all price points in it..so there may be more to it than just "it's a TWIMTBP Nvidia is doing this on purpse".

That said, Hawx2 came free with my 460 purchase, and I can say while the graphics are nice, the gameplay is so autrocious that it is insulting to otherwise charge $50 for the game. Maybe I'm just terrible at flying planes though, but winning in this game is nothing to brag about imho (nor losing anything to worry about). In fact, after playing the game I wouldn't care if I got a driver message saying my gpu refused to load the game due to how much it sucked lol...