HERE'S A TIP! --> Stop tipping waiters and keep the money for yourself!

[Thegonagle]

<< General rule of thumb for me for restaurants is 15% if they do good I go up to 20% or more. They do bad and it goes down.
Simple enough. *shrug* >>

Good enough rule.

For deliveries, about $2 plus the change, or 10-20% of the order (whichever is greater) should be good enough to keep them happy, unless they're driving more than 2 miles one way, or it's very late, in which case, you should be more generous.

 

[shaddow]

Well Epsil0n there is hope for this world you seek if you happen to be wealthy enough to join a country club.
Most of the country clubs in the US pay their servers around 6 or 7 dollars (depending on region) an hour and then tipping is entirely optional and in some cases frowned upon. I think this is the way that all restaurants should deal with this problem, but they would rather let the guest cover the rest of servers wages instead of footing the bill themselves. Another main problem is that the word is out on food service and no one wants to work in this field any longer because of the way it is managed, so kitchen and front of the house service is much crappier than it used to be. So I totally agree with your proposed system unfortunately its hard to turn back trends that have now become norms.

 

[cherrytwist]

cough*troll*cough

 

[tcsenter]

<< The problem is that restaurant owners are the ones enforcing a 15% minimum tip by paying their waitstaff that much less. Before tips, waiters and waitresses can earn like $2 or $3 per hour. Obvioulsy below minimum wage, but employers are allowed to include tips into that. So you, the customer are paying part of their wages. >>

You are paying ALL of the wages in ANY industry, be it the service industry, retail, or manufacturing. ALL costs of doing business are passed on to the consumer. There is no such beast as a business that people own and operate out of the goodness of their hearts...except charity (and most of those are money-making enterprises).

<< That's the whole motivation behind the notion of leaving a tip. It's supposed to be EXTRA. >>

Actually, that is wrong. Tips started WAY back when service industry workers received NO wages at all! They worked purely for tips.

Businesses could in those times afford to 'hire' adequate staff so they were never spread too thin and customers received plenty of attention. If times were slow, it didn't matter that you had an 'excess' of staff sitting around not being utilized because you weren't paying them anything.

The problem came when laws were passed mandating a wage. All of a sudden, employers had to justify and reconcile this expense, which meant one or more of the following: lower staff numbers, higher utilization, higher costs of goods and services. At the same time, the service industry became increasingly accessible to more classes of people other than those who are well-to-do and can afford tipping. You get a lot of people whose incomes barely affords them the product/service alone, so instead of staying home, they just rationalize stiffing the waiters.

Wages have to be increased or the tip included in the bill because of selfish and greedy people who don't give tips, which are a lot more than you think. When I worked in the restaurant/hotel business, I was stiffed MORE by thoughtless or selfish people to whom I had rendered good service than by people to whom I had provided bad service!

When I gave bad service, I expected to NOT find a tip, so when I received one it was rather surprising (in a good way). I was equally surprised, though not in a good way, when I had given good service but didn't receive a tip. I had for more 'bad' surprises than 'good' ones.

The most reasonable explanation I could find for this was because I never gave 'bad' service by my own choice. It was usually because we were understaffed (either deliberately to save money or because one or more employees called in sick) and I had more tables than I could reasonably handle. Add to this those days that were unexpectedly busy (like those times when a couple chartered busses packed full of tourists pulls in without giving notice) and the management always insists on seating as many people as they can pack in the restaurant, regardless of the staffing situation.

Thoughtful and observant people could tell whether I was giving bad or unattentive service because I don't care or because I'm working my ass off. Just because you don't see the wait person in the dining area all the time, doesn't mean he snuck-off to take a break. I remember washing my own dishes on some nights because half the kitchen crew didn't show up (or quit), hell I remember COOKING my own food on more than one occasion.

I would love to know of these places where waiters are constantly taking breaks, flirting with people, or talking on the phone, because not only have I never had the good fortune to work for such a place, I've never patroned such a place, either. I remember many days where a lunch break was considered a rare luxury.

If I see the wait person isn't able to give me proper attention because he is spread far too thin, I leave a tip. The wait person would have to be patently rude or indifferent before I would not leave a tip. If I find there is cause not to leave a tip, I quietly inform the manager why because that person is a bad employee. I don't just walk-out without an explanation for why I'm not leaving a tip.

Its quite amusing if not pathetic to read the reasons people invent to justify not leaving a tip, just like all the excuses people use to justify not paying for their software (or to shoplift, not pay taxes, etc.). It all boils down to a fundamental character flaw, really.

 

[Jerboy]

<< It all boils down to a fundamental character flaw, really. >>




Fund. char. flaw eh? In MANY cultures, tipping is not even considered necessary.

 

[Sciolist]

When I was working in the food service industry twenty years ago, one of the waitresses at the place I worked (lower cost restaurant) got all excited because halfway through the meal, she saw the corner of a 20 dollar bill peeking out from under a guy's plate. She had kids and not much money and was thinking about getting new shoes for her kid with this tip. She worked extra hard trying to make the people at this table happy.

When she went to clear away the table, she lifted up the plate, and found that he'd torn the corner off a twenty and that all she got was the corner. She came back to the kitchen and broke down in tears.

I thought at the time this was a very mean thing to do. Now I'm thinking that some of the people here on ATOT might be reading this story and thinking "Hey, that's a good idea, I'm going to do that!"

 

[tcsenter]

<< In MANY cultures, tipping is not even considered necessary >>

In MANY cultures, weekly bathing isn't considered important...what's your point? We are talking about the service industry in western society, not in Uganda.

 

[flavio]

3 piont scale? maximum of $3??? What an a$s.

 

[tcsenter]

<< When she went to clear away the table, she lifted up the plate, and found that he'd torn the corner off a twenty and that all she got was the corner. She came back to the kitchen and broke down in tears. >>

I've seen many waitresses in tears over the same circumstances. I've seen more than enough cruelty in that business, which is why I can hardly stand to work with the public any more. I've simply lost my tolerance for jerks and idiots, and the general public has more of those than any other sector. In the vast majority of cases, these people work hard and are at the mercy of terrible management. I give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[flavio]

Here's the deal->

If you go to a restaraunt that has waiters/waitreses you should know that currently the going rate for average service is 15% tip. More or less depending on quality. If you cannot afford this or don't like it DON'T EAT THERE!

 

[Aquaman]

I usually tip 10-15% but for places that really suck & I don't plan on going back too............... $0.01

Cheers,
Aquaman

 

[Jerboy]

ATOT'ers who waits tables:

After how many times of being stiffed by a same person will get you to treat them poorly?

Something like this could happen and you'd dig yourself into a bigger hole.


You treat the first customer not so well because you just broke up with your girlfriend-->He tips you poorly because you treated them poorly--->you treat them poorly because they tipped you poorly last time--->they tip even less--->you get pissed and so on.. So unless you try to be nice again, I can't see how you'd ever get out of this hole.

 

[Amused]

What ignorant, short sighted tripe (the original post).

The original poster, as well as many in this thread miss some very obvious points:

1. Even if tipping were abolished, YOU'D PAY THE SAME AMOUNT IN INCREASED COSTS FOR THE MENU ITEMS. The restaurant has to get the extra money to pay them from somewhere, and you can bet your blow up love doll they ain't gonna take it out of their own pockets. In fact, you'll pay MORE than you do now in tips, because the restaurant has to match the taxes the employee pays.

2. Yes, tips are considered part of the wait staff's salary, but this makes YOU the boss with the power to pay, or not pay the waiter according to the service you receive. Trust me, you WANT this power. Without it, the wait staff only has to please their boss, not you. Welcome to restaurants with service as good as your local McDonalds and DMV.

3. TIP means "To Insure Proper/Prompt Service." See # 2 for an explaination of why this is so important. It is not "a bit extra" it IS their salary, decided by YOU, not some too-busy-to-care boss.

4. Compare the level of service you recieve from hourly workers, to the service you receive from waiters and waitresses. I have a feeling you'll find a HUGE difference.

You have a LOT to learn about life, Jon. Some things are the way they are because they've been TRIED the other way, and did not work.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< You guys are playing into the accepted paradigm of forced-tipping. >>



Is it just me or does this sound like a Seinfeld-episode ?

 

[Amused]

<< the only thing i dont like about tipping is that it is 15%. if its not $100, the tip takes more than a second to calculate. if it were 10%, that would be easy. but i guess here in cali, for a quick way to calculate tip is to basically double the amount you were charged for tax since tax here is 7.75% >>



15% is easy. Just think: $1.50 for every $10 before tax (do not include the tax when figuring the tip).

If your bill is $25 before tax, your tip for acceptable service would be $3.75.

How hard is that???

 

[d1abolic]

I agree with everything he said. Tips are not mandatory payments. Theoretically, we should only leave a tip if the person who the tip is being left for really deserved it by doing his or her job extremely well. But usually, i'll leave a tip for anyone who is doing a good job. Only if that person makes less than i do though, and only if they/their workplace aren't EXPECTING an automatic/mandatory tip.

 

[flavio]

<< and they get paid considerably less than i do, then sure, i will leave a generous tip >>



WTF does what you make have to do with it?

 

[d1abolic]

Well, that has to do with why i leave tips in the first place. Not because i'm "expected" to, but to help those who are poorer than i am. If the person is richer than i am, they no longer require my help. Therefore, i leave no tip. Clear enough for ya?

 

[kami]

Hmm, well I agree with SOME of what you're saying but if I get crappy service I don't leave a tip. If it's good I'll usually leave 2 bucks or so regardless of the bill amount, and if it's damn good service and the waiter/waitress is really friendly I'll leave something like $5.

 

[Amused]

<< Hmm, well I agree with SOME of what you're saying but if I get crappy service I don't leave a tip. If it's good I'll usually leave 2 bucks or so regardless of the bill amount, and if it's damn good service and the waiter/waitress is really friendly I'll leave something like $5. >>



Here's a tip (pun intended): If you get crappy service leave a very small tip. Leaving no tip only makes the waiter think you're a cheap asshole, and does not send the message that the service was bad.

The custom for exceedingly bad service is to leave a penny.

As for what you leave for good service, see my previous post explaining the purpose of tips. Tips ARE a wait staff's salary, and that salary is decided and paid by you to insure proper service. In effect, YOU are their boss. An arbitrary amount of $2 or $5 is unacceptable for good service (unless the check is always $13.50 or $33.00). It's the same as your boss not paying you the agreed upon amount --even if you've done your job competently-- because he just doesn't feel like figuring 15%.

Folks, if you're not tipping 15% for acceptable service, and more for excellent service, you're a BAD, and STINGY BOSS.

 

[Snuffaluffaguss]

<< a TIP from a customer is EXTRA and should NOT be considered part of their pay >>



Its obvious that you have never waited tables in your life. The standard wage for waiters in any half decent resturant is 2.15 an hour. So if more people were as cheap you I would have busted a** for 8 hours for 16 bucks. Since tipping is a standard, get over it and pay up. I suggest you get a job waiting tables to see what it is really like, then tell me you don't want to tip. I am a poor college student and even though I no longer wait tables, I still tip well if the service warrents it. If you can't aford to tipping properly you shouldn't be eating out.

 

[Amused]

<< I agree with everything he said. Tips are not mandatory payments. Theoretically, we should only leave a tip if the person who the tip is being left for really deserved it by doing his or her job extremely well. But usually, i'll leave a tip for anyone who is doing a good job. Only if that person makes less than i do though, and only if they/their workplace aren't EXPECTING an automatic/mandatory tip. >>



Wrong. A tip in a US restaurant is payment for services rendered. 15% for acceptable service is the baseline. More for excellent service, less for bad service.

Tipping wait staff is NOT a show of appreciation only to be doled out for the best service on earth, nor is it welfare for poor people.

Folks, As I said before, the US restaurant tipping system makes YOU the boss of your waiter. It provides the waiter with the incentive to provide you with at least acceptable service. You are, in effect, holding their paycheck over their heads. If they provide you with at least acceptable service, and you stiff them on the tip, you are ethically and morally guilty of theft of their services.

 

[MeanMeosh]

<< Don't forget... normal service deserves no tip! They have to give normal service to keep their job. Only reward EXTRAordinary service with a gift of cash. >>



umm, who defines normal service though? at the current point in the service industry, a smile and politeness IS considered extraordinary. i expect waiters to be cursorily genial at the most, so a smile, politeness, and maybe fast service (which again, does not depend on the waiters, but rather the cooks), is in fact extra.

Edit: That said, I tip based on performance and I stiff people if they're rude. For example, at this one London restaurant, the dish i ordered came with a small amount of rice and when i asked for me, the waiter snapped at me and said "you dont need any more rice, you already have some right there"... guess who got stiffed on a 50 pound bill? most of the time though, i feel waiters are deserving of a tip. i think epsil0n00's definition of extraordinary service is like if the waiter sings, dances, shines his shoes, gives him a haircut with warm lather, flatters him in general and such, which is where i beg to disagree.

 

[Geekbabe]

LOL,you have obviously never worked in the food/beverage industry

 

[MeanMeosh]

<< LOL,you have obviously never worked in the food/beverage industry >>



Who, me?