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Here We Go Again...Another House Allowed To Burn

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mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
LOL, epic budget fail!

You think it costs $500 to put out a fire? Do you have no concept of overhead? How many fires do you think happen every year in any given city? Divide the total cost of all firefighters salaries, plus the cost of all equipment, real estate, etc. Divide that by the number of fires and you have the real cost of putting out the fire. It's likely in the tens of thousands of dollars. People living in a trailer home in the middle of nowhere probably don't make that much money in a year.

Are you a maroon who does not have reading comprehension skills?

I'll quote what you are clearly misinterpreting...

This bill should be in great excess of the costs associated with fighting fires. So if there are 5 paid FFs (at $20 bucks and hour), 3 hours of firefighting, and equipment etc., the bill should be in excess of $500.

Don't take an overly simplistic example and try to suggest that I was of the impression that it was the end all be all of fire-fighting costs.

Also, your math skills appear to be dwindling as well. 5 guys, 3 hours a piece, at $20 an hour runs about 300 bucks total. I had suggested that the bill be in excess of 500? Note the word excess. That means more than 500. So not only did I account for some overhead, but I suggested that the bill be well in excess of the hourly rate of the firemen.

Again, I was being overly simplistic to suggest a different method of collecting. The fire dept would be the ones determining the total cost. In any case, the bill given to the people owning that home would be far in excess of $75.

As for it costing $10k to put out a fire, I'll simply say that different fires have varying degrees of expense. If it were a kitchen fire in a trailer house, I would guess it could take an hour or two tops to extinguish with a few guys. If it were a top story fire on a 4k sqft home, I would guess a lot more guys and a lot more time invested. In any case, if they did the calculations, and sent a bill, they'd at least be making good use of their time instead of standing there and watching a house burn. And again, I don't think they're wrong for doing it... I just think a sizable bill would be crude enough to get others to pay up annually.

The primary problem that leaves is collection and making it enforceable. I have no idea how one would make that work. It simply would seem to be a better alternative than letting a house burn, and almost equally as crude to the person who didn't pay up annually. To me, if a fire dept drove out there to watch the house burn, they just as well spray some water on while they're there, and send a bill after. They ought to have a law that puts a lien on their home if they don't pay up.

And while I will say that it doesn't solve the issue of others not paying annually, it simply sounds like a better plan than watching valuables burn.

In short, people should just pay the damned $75 a year. I was simply trying to play out an alternative to watching it burn. Chances are, it wouldn't work. But it would feel a lot nicer than stories we see where they watch it burn because they didn't pay.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
<!-- Text -->

$28,000 it cost the fire department to extinguish the blaze.

The Fairchilds' bill for $27,989.12 was itemized with hourly rates for the use of fire trucks, hoses and the firefighters' time, even a case of drinking water for firefighters who got thirsty. The total for five hours of fire personnel on the scene totaled more than $8,500. The use of the fire trucks cost more than $12,300.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/fire...dents-insurance/story?id=9736696#.Tt_G25j400w

To give you a general idea.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
RTFA.

If you choose to live in an unincorporated area, you will make sacrifices. That means longer wait times for emergency services, potential lack of emergency services, longer drive times to the movie theater...etc.

Don't bitch at me when your own decisions come back to bite you in the ass.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
RTFA.

If you choose to live in an unincorporated area, you will make sacrifices. That means longer wait times for emergency services, potential lack of emergency services, longer drive times to the movie theater...etc.

Don't bitch at me when your own decisions come back to bite you in the ass.

Yep. I live 20 miles away from the closest police station and ambulance. I also live 5 miles away from the closest fire hydrant. I pay higher home insurance rates because of this. Luckily we do have a volunteer fire department near me, but it's still about 5 miles away. It's just one of the choices you make living rural. Sucks for them, but it was their choice not paying the $75 for the coverage. Next time either pay the fee or round everyone up and vote to get it back into the taxes or something.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Fucking ridiculous.

Just ask if they're willing to put up the entire cost of the operation (not just the fee), and as soon as they say yes put the damn fire out. Then let the financials take care of themselves.

What the fuck is going on here?

Dude

Get used to it. This is the Republican matra everyone wants.

Get sick, just die

Have a fire and didn't pay, too bad

Keep electing Republicans
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
I sympathize with the fire victims, loosing our home and your belongings is no fun, I hope noone ever has to go through it....

That being said, I don't see the fire dept doing anything wrong. Its outside city limits, you stay there to save money. if you want service you pay for it, if you stay inside city limits you have to pay in form of taxes. You live there to save money and when shit hits the fan you better be prepared for it.
People living on entitlement often forget their basic responsibility to the society... they obviously did not deserve it but neither was the fire department obligated to do something.

Here is a Texas Rich Republican

Perfect example of the new Amerika, get used to it.

Keep voting Republican
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Dude

Get used to it. This is the Republican matra everyone wants.

Get sick, just die

Have a fire and didn't pay, too bad

Keep electing Republicans

So you don't believe in personal responsibility. Got it.

Really don't get why you are against freedom of choice and letting people weigh the risk/reward based on their own circumstances.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,901
4,927
136
I guess this is the kind of small government all those "tax pledge" repubs want. Pretty soon it's going to reach a point where the only people able to solicit the support of the police or government or fire department when in dire need are those with the kind of cash to pay all of their salaries out of pocket. Getting held up at the grocery store? Better pay your protection money!
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,886
4,436
136
How about this idea. Fire Dept's cover the whole state from state taxes instead of property taxes/city taxes? That way everyone pays in and no one is left out.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
How about this idea. Fire Dept's cover the whole state from state taxes instead of property taxes/city taxes? That way everyone pays in and no one is left out.

Definitely the optimal solution, but I believe in general that 90% of a state's population is usually crammed into 10% of the state's real estate. At a time in which entire states are going bankrupt, is it fiscally responsible to guarantee fire response to 100% of the state? It seems unreasonable.
 

lord_emperor

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2009
1,380
1
0
I understand the justification of the fire department not to help but I just can't imagine the firemen I know standing idle while something burns.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Do you guys have the concept of State Universities and Private Universities? or its all nanny schools?

Neither, we don't have state universities or private universities or nanny schools.

We have universities that are part state funded part private funded.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76

Because everyone should be given certain things from their government, it's what government is for to protect it's people, if it's not doing that then it's failing them.

That being said if they decided to burn their house down and didn't want to call the emergency services that is their choice, there you go they have a choice, but the idea that they ask for help and are refused is retarded.
 

amddude

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2006
1,711
1
81
RTFA.

If you choose to live in an unincorporated area, you will make sacrifices. That means longer wait times for emergency services, potential lack of emergency services, longer drive times to the movie theater...etc.

Don't bitch at me when your own decisions come back to bite you in the ass.

They wanted cheap housing and lower taxes. Then they were too stupid to pay a tiny fee for fire services. Got what they deserved.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
126
Watch the follow-up article be, another owner of a burn-downed house not reimbursed for damages

the article will read as follows, insurance companies watch as the owner's property damage goes un-reimbursed due to the couple forgetting to pay their home insurance dues. Waaaahhh

Breaking news, idiots getting what they deserve.
 

amddude

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2006
1,711
1
81
Because everyone should be given certain things from their government, it's what government is for to protect it's people, if it's not doing that then it's failing them.

That being said if they decided to burn their house down and didn't want to call the emergency services that is their choice, there you go they have a choice, but the idea that they ask for help and are refused is retarded.

Protecting people is what the military and police do. And it's not like it actually cost $75 for the firefighters to work. If I have car insurance that's $150 a month and get hit, it doesn't mean the repairs will only cost $150.

They opted out of a protection because they were cheap. That's not the government's fault, that's theirs.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Protecting people is what the military and police do. And it's not like it actually cost $75 for the firefighters to work. If I have car insurance that's $150 a month and get hit, it doesn't mean the repairs will only cost $150.

They opted out of a protection because they were cheap. That's not the government's fault, that's theirs.

They shouldn't have been charged for fire service.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
They shouldn't have been charged for fire service.

I feel like I'm going to argue with a wall on this topic but it needs repeating...

In almost every city and township in the US fire departments (both paid & volunteer) are operated by property taxes and volunteer donations. You don't pay a "fee" for this service. It's just a given.

This rural community opted NOT TO work that way and wanted to pay out of pocket. They CHOSE that option.

This isn't a government failure. It was a deliberate choice to a) opt out and b) not pay. $500,000 fire trucks and the equipment needed to put out fires aren't free. Even to governments. That money has to come from somewhere.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
I feel like I'm going to argue with a wall on this topic but it needs repeating...

In almost every city and township in the US fire departments (both paid & volunteer) are operated by property taxes and volunteer donations. You don't pay a "fee" for this service. It's just a given.

This rural community opted NOT TO work that way and wanted to pay out of pocket. They CHOSE that option.

This isn't a government failure. It was a deliberate choice to a) opt out and b) not pay. $500,000 fire trucks and the equipment needed to put out fires aren't free. Even to governments. That money has to come from somewhere.

They shouldn't have had that choice, it should be a legal, national requirement that local government provide fire service paid for by taxes.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
They shouldn't have had that choice, it should be a legal, national requirement that local government provide fire service paid for by taxes.

And we as a people have decided not to give our States and Federal Government that much power.