Here Is What Louisiana Schoolchildren Learn About Evolution

[MovingTarget]

Even if you use intelligent design as a model for the origin of life you debunk major religions.

The bible for example explains creation in fairly straightforward way. and it's wronger than the wrongiest wrong.

Whether you subscribe to intelligent design or evolution it doesn't matter because both exposé religion as the farce it is.

Intelligent design is creationism by another name. It is no more than a sneaky attempt to wedge creationism back where it doesn't belong - in the classroom. It is bad theology and bad science. Your mistake is that thinking that the bible's creation story is meant to be a scientific explanation. It is most certainly not. What it does do is attempt to explain our origins in a philosophical sense in a way that the ancient mind would understand. Even in modern times, it still has significance if you keep the original audience/culture in its proper context. Science can never explain things such as the human soul or any meaning and/or guide to existence. It simply isn't meant to. That is where theology/philosophy like you would find in Genesis comes in.

 

[Timorous]

The latest way they try to peddle their BS is as "complementary" medicine. People still get real treatments but then they're conned into doing various alternative therapies on the side. Even some hospitals allow that crap because it's another way for them to make money. It's sad.

They should spend more money on placebo experimentation to work out exactly how that effect works. They should also look at how different approaches to doctor patient consultation result in different health outcomes.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Hit a nerve? Desperate? Baffled? Seriously? We aren't the ones pounding the table with preconceived notions here. Open your mind. You are so keen to believe that there is conflict between God and the scientific method that you are blind to the nature of both. What a small world you must live in.

I love it when a person who shut his mind when he was a child demands that others open their minds to his special form of magical wonders that live in his brain. I also like when they say that they have no pre-concieved notions when their beliefs are set in stone.

You're saying that there is no conflict between religion and science? Really?

Denounce organized religion and you can have whatever personal beliefs you want but don't say that religion and science are compatible when they are not.

Religion relies on ancient texts being correct and will deny all existing evidence until it bloody well HAS to admit it centuries after the knowledge was gained just because it messes with part of their religion. If not for Religion we would be MUCH further into the future of science.

Now, one can be a theist and not have any sort of problem with science but one CANNOT adhere to ANY of the known religions and not run into all sorts of problem with reality... i mean science which is the study of reality.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Intelligent design is creationism by another name. It is no more than a sneaky attempt to wedge creationism back where it doesn't belong - in the classroom. It is bad theology and bad science. Your mistake is that thinking that the bible's creation story is meant to be a scientific explanation. It is most certainly not. What it does do is attempt to explain our origins in a philosophical sense in a way that the ancient mind would understand. Even in modern times, it still has significance if you keep the original audience/culture in its proper context. Science can never explain things such as the human soul or any meaning and/or guide to existence. It simply isn't meant to. That is where theology/philosophy like you would find in Genesis comes in.

You got ANY evidence for this..."human soul"?

Or are you just twisting reality?

 

[ichy]

Intelligent design is creationism by another name. It is no more than a sneaky attempt to wedge creationism back where it doesn't belong - in the classroom. It is bad theology and bad science.

So what is "good theology?" Something that's backed by evidence and reason? Lol...

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Huh? Andrew Wakefield (the liar who started all the MMR vaccine-autism bullshit) was from the UK. Vaccination rates in the UK dropped noticeably after his lies came out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield#Epidemics_and_effects

I'm gonna be honest and say that i've not researched this properly (obviously) but i've never heard of it before.

Perhaps Sheffield was spared from his idiocy. 😀

He should be taken out back and shot for his contributions to the deaths things like that inevitably leads to.

 

[sandorski]

I don't believe in certain forms of Mathematics! Algebra is a lie straight from the pits of Hell.

 

[Lonbjerg]

They should spend more money on placebo experimentation to work out exactly how that effect works. They should also look at how different approaches to doctor patient consultation result in different health outcomes.

This is my stance on homo-bogus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

 

[Yreka]

Then California needs to make more noise.
Because all we get over here is the scary religious crap from the USA.
If there is a voice of reason...it's drowned out by shit like creationism, Tea-party, the covering up for topless statues...and the NOT big seperation between religion and state...ect.

Because that is what makes the "news" and remember "news" = "entertainment"

Normal people doing normal sane things are not interesting, but they are in fact... Normal

This is where considering the size of this country (as mentioned) is so important when looking at isolated incidents. Keep in mind, the US is very roughly just over 1/3 the size (population) of the entire European Continent & is over 1/2 if you take out Russia. JoS summed it up pretty well, assuming EU countries as states.. Our (States) are a little smaller, and do (generally) speak the same language, but other than that there is tremendous diversity. Now imagine having to govern the EU nations at a federal level, and you begin to draw some parallels with what our FED has to contend with.. The term "Herding Cats" comes to mind..

Interestingly enough, we just had a couple of your countrymen over (from Henning) to stay with us in October. They flew into SFO + stayed at our house for a few weeks to get used to the culture, then bought a used Van and started a trek across the US to sight-see ( I think they are in Tennessee currently). One of the things that surprised them the most, other than the Mountains was just how many $&%^ people live here 😀


You're just going to have to take our word for it, or come visit 😉

 

[Lonbjerg]

I don't believe in certain forms of Mathematics! Algebra is a lie straight from the pits of Hell.

Nice one...😎

 

[ichy]

He should be taken out back and shot for his contributions to the deaths things like that inevitably leads to.

Yes. I think it's no exaggeration to say that his BS was the most harmful fraud to ever take place in modern medicine.

 

[MovingTarget]

There is a conflict...just look in this thread.
People denying facts...due to superstition.

But did you have anything to say to the numbers i linked you?

Or are fallacies you only tool when presented with facts?

The conflict is only there for people that want to see one such as yourself and those that you malign. I have not denied anything scientific and have in fact argued against those in this thread that do. I and the many others like me are your counterexample. We are not alone.

On another note, you posted two wikipedia articles. Do your own homework. I won't dismiss the statistics as being flawed, but I do object to their relevance to this discussion. This is primarily a philosophical discussion, but you are trying to put it into scientific/statistical terms. Not everything in life can be quantified.

 

[Timorous]

Hit a nerve? Desperate? Baffled? Seriously? We aren't the ones pounding the table with preconceived notions here. Open your mind. You are so keen to believe that there is conflict between God and the scientific method that you are blind to the nature of both. What a small world you must live in.

It is not that their is conflict between god and the scientific method. The scientific method does not care if their is a god or not, all it cares about is do the theories/hypothesises fit the observational and experimental evidence we have. If that evidence ends up pointing to god then so be it but at the moment it is about as far in the opposite direction as you can get.

Further those who have religious beliefs have power in some areas and it causes societal problems. That woman who died in Ireland because her half miscarried foetus still had a heartbeat for 3 days. That woman was in agony but they could not abort because technically she was not in danger of immediate death and the foetus, even though it was never ever going to survive. It is those same people who want to dictate to women what they can do with their bodies and it is wrong to try and enforce your beliefs on others as a matter of law.

If you do not like abortion, prostitution, drugs, sex etc then just do not partake but do not try and stop those who think any of those actions are right for them from doing so. That is what a lot of us hate. We do not care if you privately believe whatever, and if you create groups with like minded people. What we do care about is when that spills over and starts affecting other people who have a different view.

 

[randomrogue]

In defense of the US we aren't the only developed country where ignorance is common. Creationism may not be as popular in Western Europe but there's plenty of people who buy into equally unscientific horseshit like homeopathy, reiki, vaccine-autism links, etc.

Until I read this I never really thought about it but you're absolutely right. The self healing stuff over here is wacko and I've never seen that stuff in the states.

 

[Retro Rob]

Of course it does.

And you answered the question.

I'm sorry for your loss.

It's funny how you idiots think that all religious people are detached from reality and can't think for themsevles.

Atheists use this argument exhaustingly.

It takes effort and tremendous research into Biblical and secular history to come to the conclusions some of us come to.

How do you think we come to these conclusions? We study, visit ancient ruins, study history (since all the accouts in the bible cover events that have already taken place). The most noticeable effort with me and those I know, is that we use scripture to interpret other scripture. We read, and find other scriptures that discuss the subject, and come to conclusions based on that.

It takes massive effort and sacrifice, and TIME.

You guys are clueless and ignorant.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Yes. I think it's no exaggeration to say that his BS was the most harmful fraud to ever take place in modern medicine.

Since it founded the whole movement i kinda agree. I do have to say that from what i've seen it's mostly Ron Paul conspiracy tards that cling to these kinds of things though (akin to flouride in water, is it not? Never mind that it's in ALL water including the spring water you buy...)

There is a reason why herd immunity works and he fucked it up.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Because that is what makes the "news" and remember "news" = "entertainment"

Normal people doing normal sane things are not interesting, but they are in fact... Normal

This is where considering the size of this country (as mentioned) is so important when looking at isolated incidents. Keep in mind, the US is very roughly just over 1/3 the size (population) of the entire European Continent & is over 1/2 if you take out Russia. JoS summed it up pretty well, assuming EU countries as states.. Our (States) are a little smaller, and do (generally) speak the same language, but other than that there is tremendous diversity. Now imagine having to govern the EU nations at a federal level, and you begin to draw some parallels with what our FED has to contend with.. The term "Herding Cats" comes to mind..

Interestingly enough, we just had a couple of your countrymen over (from Henning) to stay with us in October. They flew into SFO + stayed at our house for a few weeks to get used to the culture, then bought a used Van and started a trek across the US to sight-see ( I think they are in Tennessee currently). One of the things that surprised them the most, other than the Mountains was just how many $&%^ people live here 😀


You're just going to have to take our word for it, or come visit 😉

You mean Herning right?
Was in Herning for a party last weekend 😉

And Oh..I. have been to the states:

Reading, Pennsylvania...laughing my ass off over the brown paper bag...you get 1(ONE!!!1!!!) guess on what is inside the BROWN paper bag...
(VERY funny to a guy from Denmark, backwards stuff like that)

 

[Lonbjerg]

The conflict is only there for people that want to see one such as yourself and those that you malign. I have not denied anything scientific and have in fact argued against those in this thread that do. I and the many others like me are your counterexample. We are not alone.

On another note, you posted two wikipedia articles. Do your own homework. I won't dismiss the statistics as being flawed, but I do object to their relevance to this discussion. This is primarily a philosophical discussion, but you are trying to put it into scientific/statistical terms. Not everything in life can be quantified.

Don't be mad over facts...you still havn't adressed the numbers....only poor ad hominem.

 

[MovingTarget]

It is not that their is conflict between god and the scientific method. The scientific method does not care if their is a god or not, all it cares about is do the theories/hypothesises fit the observational and experimental evidence we have. If that evidence ends up pointing to god then so be it but at the moment it is about as far in the opposite direction as you can get.

Further those who have religious beliefs have power in some areas and it causes societal problems. That woman who died in Ireland because her half miscarried foetus still had a heartbeat for 3 days. That woman was in agony but they could not abort because technically she was not in danger of immediate death and the foetus, even though it was never ever going to survive. It is those same people who want to dictate to women what they can do with their bodies and it is wrong to try and enforce your beliefs on others as a matter of law.

If you do not like abortion, prostitution, drugs, sex etc then just do not partake but do not try and stop those who think any of those actions are right for them from doing so. That is what a lot of us hate. We do not care if you privately believe whatever, and if you create groups with like minded people. What we do care about is when that spills over and starts affecting other people who have a different view.

Finally, someone with sense responds. Science only concerns itself with what is measurable and testable. Theology is more of a philosophy than a science. It is by its very nature not something that is quantifiable.

You are correct though....the situation in Ireland is a damn travesty. Government policies should be decided through more pragmatic means. I...completely agree.

 

[DominionSeraph]

It's beyond our comprehension, but not beyond our knowledge to describe. A creator in this case would have to exist outside of time to break the chain of causality. That's the basis of the first cause argument. A being that has always existed which itself was not caused. It's impossible to understand being outside of time, but not impossible to describe.

The logic behind God necessarily assumes infinite and eternal existence outside of time, or else God is caused just like everything else, and is therefore subject to the infinite regress of "what caused God, and what caused that which caused God...".

Why do you call this thing, "God?" An unmoving, unthinking, unreacting thing whose structure was not created by outside forces and therefore is not constrained to be anything?

A god is an anthropomorphic explanation which humans hold in superstitious regard. Take away the superstition, and it's not a god. Take away the assignment of human qualities, and it's not a god.

You posit a mere fluctuation in what is. (whether the observer or the object is the one moving doesn't matter.) What does this have to do with an invisible Sky Daddy who has a strong negative emotional reaction to watching people eat bacon, and who sacrificed himself to himself in order to convince himself not to torture his creation through a system of torture he created for the purpose of coercing his creation into not making him torture it?

Calling a meaningless structure a "god" is nothing but an attempt by believers to assign properties to it that allow them to go back to their superstitious ways and relieve themselves of the burden of thinking.

 

[Yreka]

You mean Herning right?
Was in Herning for a party last weekend 😉

Yes sorry, was going off the top of my head 😀

He actually has a pretty cool site/blog up documenting their trip.. Ill ask if I can post a link,

 

[Lonbjerg]

It's funny how you idiots think that all religious people are detached from reality and can't think for themsevles.

Atheists use this argument exhaustingly.

It takes effort and tremendous research into Biblical and secular history to come to the conclusions some of us come to.

How do you think we come to these conclusions? We study, visit ancient ruins, study history (since all the accouts in the bible cover events that have already taken place). The most noticeable effort with me and those I know, is that we use scripture to interpret other scripture. We read, and find other scriptures that discuss the subject, and come to conclusions based on that.

It takes massive effort and sacrifice, and TIME.

You guys are clueless and ignorant.

So now, you not only take a dump on science...but on the teaching of your superstition...PRICELESS.

Were does your superstition give a "thumbs up" to your behaviour now? :whiste:

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

It's funny how you idiots think that all religious people are detached from reality and can't think for themsevles.

Atheists use this argument exhaustingly.

It takes effort and tremendous research into Biblical and secular history to come to the conclusions some of us come to.

How do you think we come to these conclusions? We study, visit ancient ruins, study history (since all the accouts in the bible cover events that have already taken place). The most noticeable effort with me and those I know, is that we use scripture to interpret other scripture. We read, and find other scriptures that discuss the subject, and come to conclusions based on that.

It takes massive effort and sacrifice, and TIME.

You guys are clueless and ignorant.

Of course it does, you have to be brainwashed as a child and then steer clear of ALL evidence to the contrary until your brain is fully developed, then you can get reaffirmed of your knowledge (which at this point are actually things you think you KNOW) by your fellow idiots.

I grew up in a Christian home, i was indoctrinated since birth with that shit and it wasn't until i read the bible myself, many, many times that at the grown age of 13 my parents put me on the street for proclaiming that it wasn't true.

Last night i passed a sick dog on my way home from the pub and then i made it rain and cured a homeless man of all ills.

You can verify the sick dog, you can verify that it rained so obviously i have magical healing powers too.

Historical Jesus probably existed, no one disputes that, magical christ is another story, one taken from the minds of people who believed in not one, not 10 but 13 Messiases all of who failed to fulfill the prophesies (i'm Jewish by heritage, i know the Torah about as well as the Bible) and that includes Jesus.

So there was a new excuse made up, he'll do it later... LOL...

 

[Lonbjerg]

Yes sorry, was going off the top of my head 😀

He actually has a pretty cool site/blog up documenting their trip.. Ill ask if I can post a link,

Please do.
I liked my trip to the US (the ex has family there)...but I also got some very sad things confirmed.

Eg. how religion infects everything.

But I enjoyed my stay...and my return as I have seen very little.

N.Y., New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virgina and Washington DC isn't a small portion of the USA....would like to see more...just NOT the biblebelt.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You mean Herning right?
Was in Herning for a party last weekend 😉

And Oh..I. have been to the states:

Reading, Pennsylvania...laughing my ass off over the brown paper bag...you get 1(ONE!!!1!!!) guess on what is inside the BROWN paper bag...
(VERY funny to a guy from Denmark, backwards stuff like that)

Is that you?

I have an instant urge to punch you in the face.